How can I explain M-DCT is not same as automatic padal shift?

disapr · 10-25-2011, 10:07 PM

"How can I explain M-DCT is not same as automatic padal shift?"

How is this yet another MT VS DCT fight?

This is getting so old.

mdosu · 10-25-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4G63

Just tell him the friendship is over because you're too embarrassed to hang out with someone who drives a hyundai.

i was in Canda this weekend and drove a rental Hyundai and.....yeah, I agree.

Darth One · 10-25-2011, 10:14 PM

I just want to know how the MT trained monkeys reach the clutch

Ateam · 10-25-2011, 11:28 PM

I really like that bmw still gives the two options. I think there are really two large groups of people who enjoy an m3 for example. The manual lovers find the manual rewarding and enjoyable due to the feeling of it and the emotional feeling they get from it. This is often from fond memories or long-term experience with manuals being associated with sports cars. Its hard to "undo" what your brain has learned for decades about manuals being synonomous with race cars.

Then there is the folks that enjoy an m3 because its the closest thing they will get to being an F1 driver in an F1 car and the fact it uses a high strung V8 which is about as close to a F1 v8 in a street car out there as well as the same tranny technology in the DCT as F1-that provides enjoyment in this group of people.

No "right" answer but rather which group you tend to be in. Some are in both groups and can enjoy either.

J08M3 · 10-26-2011, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

exactly

michaelpnett · 10-26-2011, 08:38 AM

If they do not know the difference why try to explain. They obviously don't care enough for it to matter to them. Any car enthusiast knows the difference. For the rest of them, let them enjoy thinking they have a nice car too.

p.s. Hyundai is not that shabby. Be careful of who you mock for driving a Hyundai. It may be you before you know it.....

captainaudio · 10-26-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelpnett

If they do not know the difference why try to explain. They obviously don't care enough for it to matter to them. Any car enthusiast knows the difference. For the rest of them, let them enjoy thinking they have a nice car too.

p.s. Hyundai is not that shabby. Be careful of who you mock for driving a Hyundai. It may be you before you know it.....

It appears that there may have been more interest in winning a "My car is better than your car" pi$$ing contest than in explaining the differenct technology behind the two types of transmissions.

CA

Erhan · 10-26-2011, 09:18 AM

A very good instructor and also friend of mine that instructs at BMWCCA and PCA HPDS events once told me that shifting is a requirement that carries lots of risks. If you can avoid it, you're better of.

To the @OP, I think this is the best answer for your friend:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

OP - Just tell him its the same type of trans that's in the Ferrari 458 Italia

mkoesel · 10-26-2011, 12:52 PM

I agree, but that hasn't stopped the debates in the past and probably won't in the future.

BTW, while I don't know of any DCT that may only be shifted manually, it is interesting to note that Ford's DCT as implemented in the Focus and Fiesta can only be shifted automatically, just like a good-old fashioned slushbox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVG

A dual clutch transmission is most definitely an automatic transmission. The mechanism may be different from a torque converter automatic, but it is still an automatic because it is capable of shifting gears automatically. I don't think this could be any clearer.

If it is capable of non-driver controlled shifting, then it is an automatic. Now, if they made a DCT that had to be shifted manually, then that would not be an automatic.

Erhan · 10-26-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

BTW, while I don't know of any DCT that may only be shifted manually

I think it would be dangerous to let this. Someone who doesn't understand how a car works can stall the car easily.

mkoesel · 10-26-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erhanh

I think it would be dangerous to let this. Someone who doesn't understand how a car works can stall the car easily.

True, although I guess what I really meant was "can only be shifted manually (other than automatic shifting to prevent underrev)".

LarThaL · 10-26-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthal

It would for sure... what's your point...

Driving a manual, proper heel-toe technique, mastering smoothness and quickness isn't rocket science either nor does being able to do so prove anything other than someone chose to care to learn. Putting undue importance on being skilled with a 6MT is silly.

I would bet the vast majority of DCT drivers were very capable 6MT drivers first.

My point is simply this: many DCT drivers argue that it is just so superior, and I acknowledge its superiority in certain regards. I am only pointing to the notion that MT drivers choose MT because they find it more enjoyable and engaging than a DCT, despite the pure numerical performance advantage of a DCT. It's the same type of reasoning that leads some people to choose a more enjoyable subjective driving experience in an M3 over the objectively superior performance numbers of a GTR.

OH MY GAWD!!!!!! I just combined the MT/DCT debate and the M3/GTR debate into one. It's the perfect storm. LOOK OUT!!!! THE WORLD IS GOING TO END SOON !!!!!!!

gthal · 10-26-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVG

OH MY GAWD!!!!!! I just combined the MT/DCT debate and the M3/GTR debate into one. It's the perfect storm. LOOK OUT!!!! THE WORLD IS GOING TO END SOON !!!!!!!

bobbyd1961 · 10-26-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4G63

Just tell him the friendship is over because you're too embarrassed to hang out with someone who drives a hyundai.

e46e92love · 10-26-2011, 11:17 PM

So this is what a thread fail looks like......interesting. No fault of the OP though....

Cheers,
e46e92

MaxBoost335 · 10-27-2011, 01:15 AM

The biggest difference between the Hyundai's AT and BMW DCT is we have Launch Control. Also teaching a monkey to drive stick is easier than teaching a monkey to get DCT into launch control mode

luis_m3 · 10-27-2011, 05:12 AM

Just this morning:
A guy comes from across a parking lot to see my car, leans over my window and says: "Dude, your car is Fnnn sick!" looks around and inside and adds "I love it except that it's automatic..."
I just smiled and said "yeah, dude. These are not as fast". And he actually replied: "yeap, I know".
I just kept smiling and remembered this threat. Lol.

Erhan · 10-27-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBoost335

Also teaching a monkey to drive stick is easier than teaching a monkey to get DCT into launch control mode

m3keash · 10-27-2011, 02:57 PM

Let him sit in the passenger seat. Take your car to a road clear of traffic and floor it for 11 seconds. Then ask him if his car does that?

mkoesel · 10-27-2011, 04:51 PM

I have to confess - awhile back I taught a bunch of monkeys to start 6MT vs. DCT threads on M3Post. Sorry about all threads over the years guys.

10-25-2011, 10:07 PM	#45
disapr drop a gear and... 79 Rep 967 Posts Drives: 2010 M3 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (4)	"How can I explain M-DCT is not same as automatic padal shift?" How is this yet another MT VS DCT fight? This is getting so old. __________________ WTB - 2006/05 ZCP 6MT M3 w/ under 85k (Link to WTB)
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10-25-2011, 10:14 PM	#47
Darth One drunk poster 6614 Rep 3,649 Posts Drives: M4 GTS \| E46 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	I just want to know how the MT trained monkeys reach the clutch
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10-25-2011, 11:28 PM	#48
Ateam Banned 88 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I really like that bmw still gives the two options. I think there are really two large groups of people who enjoy an m3 for example. The manual lovers find the manual rewarding and enjoyable due to the feeling of it and the emotional feeling they get from it. This is often from fond memories or long-term experience with manuals being associated with sports cars. Its hard to "undo" what your brain has learned for decades about manuals being synonomous with race cars. Then there is the folks that enjoy an m3 because its the closest thing they will get to being an F1 driver in an F1 car and the fact it uses a high strung V8 which is about as close to a F1 v8 in a street car out there as well as the same tranny technology in the DCT as F1-that provides enjoyment in this group of people. No "right" answer but rather which group you tend to be in. Some are in both groups and can enjoy either.
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10-26-2011, 08:38 AM	#50
michaelpnett Second Lieutenant 29 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 2008 AW E92 M3; 2012 X5M Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: long Island iTrader: (0)	If they do not know the difference why try to explain. They obviously don't care enough for it to matter to them. Any car enthusiast knows the difference. For the rest of them, let them enjoy thinking they have a nice car too. p.s. Hyundai is not that shabby. Be careful of who you mock for driving a Hyundai. It may be you before you know it.....
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10-26-2011, 11:17 PM	#59
e46e92love Brigadier General 236 Rep 3,303 Posts Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The East Side of Things iTrader: (0)	So this is what a thread fail looks like......interesting. No fault of the OP though.... Cheers, e46e92 __________________ "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
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10-27-2011, 01:15 AM	#60
MaxBoost335 Private First Class 18 Rep 167 Posts Drives: 2011 e90 M3 DCT ZCP Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	The biggest difference between the Hyundai's AT and BMW DCT is we have Launch Control. Also teaching a monkey to drive stick is easier than teaching a monkey to get DCT into launch control mode
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10-27-2011, 05:12 AM	#61
luis_m3 Low Pro... 35 Rep 1,067 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Denver iTrader: (0)	Just this morning: A guy comes from across a parking lot to see my car, leans over my window and says: "Dude, your car is Fnnn sick!" looks around and inside and adds "I love it except that it's automatic..." I just smiled and said "yeah, dude. These are not as fast". And he actually replied: "yeap, I know". I just kept smiling and remembered this threat. Lol.
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10-27-2011, 02:57 PM	#63
m3keash Second Lieutenant 7 Rep 243 Posts Drives: E93, JB/Bamboo, Adv.1 8.3 20s Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	Let him sit in the passenger seat. Take your car to a road clear of traffic and floor it for 11 seconds. Then ask him if his car does that? __________________ JB, Bamboo, every option, 20" Adv.1
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10-27-2011, 04:51 PM	#64
mkoesel Moderator 7516 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	I have to confess - awhile back I taught a bunch of monkeys to start 6MT vs. DCT threads on M3Post. Sorry about all threads over the years guys.
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