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      05-27-2011, 12:29 AM   #45
Brandon26pdx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
well that settles it
i'm waiting till the 2012s come out
and gonna order me a new E92 M3
no turbos
working HPFP
no DCT, no idrive, no crap

and best of all
S65 with a 8400rpm red line
No HPFP at all actually!
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      05-27-2011, 12:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailHappyM3 View Post
If this is true, I see the E9X M3 holding its value well.
Exactly what the e46 people said when the e9x platform went with a v8
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      05-27-2011, 03:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockin330i View Post
Exactly what the e46 people said when the e9x platform went with a v8
FI introduces a whole can of worms. Carbon buildup and a yet to be proven HPFP.
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      05-27-2011, 03:45 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
FI introduces a whole can of worms. Carbon buildup and a yet to be proven HPFP.
Exactly. Spot on sir.
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      05-27-2011, 03:48 AM   #49
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No big surprise. I buy the rumor. And of course it will not be called the N55...

The engine will have a more power, a lot more torque, not as high of a redline, substantially better throttle response than the 335i but not as good as the E92. It WILL solidly best the current car in any performance metric any of us care about. It will also loose on sound compared to the current car. These points car be virtually guaranteed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
what's all this talk about cutting costs??
did BMW have cost issues when they replaced the S14 of the E30 M3 with the 6 cyl?
did they have issues with the E46 M3 Engine when they made the V8?
WTF?
cost cutting and yet the prices of each replacement model are higher
screw me with the price of the car, fine
but don't screw me in making a one size fits all but charging me 30% more than the guy next to me in the 335 who has basically the same car minus some M badges and a different software tune god damn it!
Welcome to corporate America and pretty much any global corporation. Their efforts are made very clear in their reports to shareholders. The terminology is "material cost offensive", "standardized architectures" and "modular systems". I can post an example if you like.

You can't really believe that the only differences between the new top 3er and the new M3 will be a tune and and M badge. Look at the current compare/contrast and ignore entirely the engine. I forget the official stat but something like 80% of the parts are different.
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      05-27-2011, 04:44 AM   #50
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If true they can kiss one customer goodbye.

I think BMW is doing alot of research on what engine to put in the newer m3. m3 is top seller in the m division and they all know most buyers are fanatics. A wrong engine can lose ALOT of customers. Honestly, I can careless right now though, were talking about a car thats coming out in 3 years.
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      05-27-2011, 06:57 AM   #51
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Too much speculation going on here, fact is nobody knows what motor the next gen M3 will be getting, and IMO BMW doesn't even know.

All I do know is the next gen Audi RS5 is getting a 490hp 4.0 bi-turbo V8 and Mercedes AMG brands are getting bi-turbo 5.5 V8's. Do you really think BMW would take themselves out of the running by using a V6?

Anyways, bi-turbo V8 setup would give the next gen M3 a much needed torque boost which would allow for higher gearing thus greatly improving gas mileage, which at this point is the main concern for many auto manufacturers. He'll, the new Audi 4.2 V8 in the heavy ass A8 is getting nearly 30 mpg. I envision BMW sticking with the V8.
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      05-27-2011, 08:08 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshane View Post
Too much speculation going on here, fact is nobody knows what motor the next gen M3 will be getting, and IMO BMW doesn't even know.

All I do know is the next gen Audi RS5 is getting a 490hp 4.0 bi-turbo V8 and Mercedes AMG brands are getting bi-turbo 5.5 V8's. Do you really think BMW would take themselves out of the running by using a V6?

Anyways, bi-turbo V8 setup would give the next gen M3 a much needed torque boost which would allow for higher gearing thus greatly improving gas mileage, which at this point is the main concern for many auto manufacturers. He'll, the new Audi 4.2 V8 in the heavy ass A8 is getting nearly 30 mpg. I envision BMW sticking with the V8.
Are you sure of this? cause if yes, I agree with you, that would be a huge fail for M3 if it can't even compete with RS5..Would a V8 Bi-Turbo M3 still have a high rev engine? As much as I love my current M3 I just can't think of one good reason why wouldn't I upgrade to a V8Bi-Turbo 500HP 8000-8500RPM redline
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      05-27-2011, 08:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Are you sure of this? cause if yes, I agree with you, that would be a huge fail for M3 if it can't even compete with RS5..Would a V8 Bi-Turbo M3 still have a high rev engine? As much as I love my current M3 I just can't think of one good reason why wouldn't I upgrade to a V8Bi-Turbo 500HP 8000-8500RPM redline
The great S65 V8 is ruled out because there are no coporated parts in it ... its simply the most expensive engine to produce (from the 4 given alternatives!) ... the S63 is simply too big to fit all middle class M cars ... so on the shortlist are only two ... the N55 based 3.2ltr.I6 TriTurbo and the innovative S63 based 3.3ltr.V6 TriTurbo.
And the winner is the N55 based engine ... only because it is the cheapest choise that fullfill the requirement! THAT IT IS !!!

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      05-27-2011, 09:07 AM   #54
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Sad but true. I heard the same. Bye Bye V8.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
The great S65 V8 is ruled out because there are no coporated parts in it ... its simply the most expensive engine to produce (from the 4 given alternatives!) ... the S63 is simply too big to fit all middle class M cars ... so on the shortlist are only two ... the N55 based 3.2ltr.I6 TriTurbo and the innovative S63 based 3.3ltr.V6 TriTurbo.
And the winner is the N55 based engine ... only because it is the cheapest choise that fullfill the requirement! THAT IT IS !!!

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      05-27-2011, 09:24 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
fantastic, we can all start playing the lemon slots and see who wins the jackpot



hahhahah
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      05-27-2011, 09:26 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
The great S65 V8 is ruled out because there are no coporated parts in it ... its simply the most expensive engine to produce (from the 4 given alternatives!) ... the S63 is simply too big to fit all middle class M cars ... so on the shortlist are only two ... the N55 based 3.2ltr.I6 TriTurbo and the innovative S63 based 3.3ltr.V6 TriTurbo.
And the winner is the N55 based engine ... only because it is the cheapest choise that fullfill the requirement! THAT IT IS !!!

Uli_HH
Just to play devils advocate, BMW is using the 4.4 bi-turbo V8 in quite a few cars, and a simple tune and some minor upgrades to the motor could make a decent motor for a new M3....same motor in the upcoming M5...just detuned a bit for M3 duty.
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      05-27-2011, 09:27 AM   #57
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LOL @ all the Leslie Nielsen quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshane View Post
All I do know is the next gen Audi RS5 is getting a 490hp 4.0 bi-turbo V8 and Mercedes AMG brands are getting bi-turbo 5.5 V8's.
No one knows what Audi will do with the next RS5 yet. It is all speculation at this point. A V6 with forced induction is still very much a possibility.

While the 5.5L V8 seems a shoe in for the next C63, that is not guaranteed yet either. Remember, AMG has used a supercharged V6 in the C-class AMG before. And rumors suggest that Mercedes is working on a new V6 with forced induction to eventually replace the current 3.5L N/A V6. All of their other engines now use forced induction, after all (every I4, V8 and V12). So an AMG version of that motor is still very much a possibility in the future as well.

Quote:
Do you really think BMW would take themselves out of the running by using a V6?
Have you noticed that the M3 is always both the class leader when it comes to critical acclaim and yet is typically the least powerful?
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      05-27-2011, 10:28 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
FI introduces a whole can of worms. Carbon buildup and a yet to be proven HPFP.
Lol FI has been around for years. I don't hear porsche owners crying, " no not another twin turbo engine!"
FI I an easy way to get big v8 power with I6/v6 economy.

Besides I'm pretty sure most of the market could care less bout what engine it has. We forum people don't really represent a huge chunk of the market.
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      05-27-2011, 12:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Welcome to corporate America and pretty much any global corporation. Their efforts are made very clear in their reports to shareholders. The terminology is "material cost offensive", "standardized architectures" and "modular systems". I can post an example if you like.

You can't really believe that the only differences between the new top 3er and the new M3 will be a tune and and M badge. Look at the current compare/contrast and ignore entirely the engine. I forget the official stat but something like 80% of the parts are different.
well currently the M3 shares 20% of the parts with the regular 3 series
but i bet you once the engine is shared with the 3 series
that 80% will drop to 50% or even less

i'd agree to everything you said it we were talking about the 335
sharing parts with other models means more profit
but with the M3, why not just make specialized parts, and reflect that in the price?
i mean i'm not asking for an M3 at 335 money
i am willing to pay more for an M3
but i can justify it by thinking ok i am paying more
but i know i get special brakes, engine, suspension, etc
it's like trying to sell me a rolex that's built on a timex platform, but still charging me thousands
i'd only be paying money for the ROLEX name
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      05-27-2011, 01:03 PM   #60
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I actually like the idea of N55 for next M3. That will make feel even better about my S65.
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      05-27-2011, 01:06 PM   #61
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If they can shave off 500+ lbs, be my guest and use a TT 6-cyl. The M3 is a bloated monster right now. I just picked my ED up from the dealer a week ago, and I'm in love with it, but it's just so fat.
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      05-27-2011, 01:09 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conradb View Post
If they can shave off 500+ lbs, be my guest and use a TT 6-cyl. The M3 is a bloated monster right now. I just picked my ED up from the dealer a week ago, and I'm in love with it, but it's just so fat.
Wishful thinking but not going to happen. If history truly repeats itself, the next gen M3 could go over 4000 pounds.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      05-27-2011, 02:13 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i am willing to pay more for an M3
but i can justify it by thinking ok i am paying more
but i know i get special brakes, engine, suspension, etc
To be clear, the next M3 won't likely share anything more with the next 3 series than the current M3 does with the current 3 series, except of course in the engine itself.

In other words, wheels, suspension, brakes, differential, most of the other chassis components for that matter, body panels, interior materials, will all be M3-specific. And this will include probably more carbon fiber used for the M3 than just the roof like it is today.

So don't sweat the shared engine architecture. The F10 has a V8 that is based on the one in the 550i, but it will make close to 200hp more. I don't think we are going to hear any complaints (other than the loss of the V10 which was going to happen no matter what engine the M5 ended up with).
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      05-27-2011, 03:43 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Wishful thinking but not going to happen. If history truly repeats itself, the next gen M3 could go over 4000 pounds.
Nah I don't see it getting appreciably heavier than the current car. Maybe 100 lbs or so at worst.
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      05-27-2011, 03:46 PM   #65
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Bad thing about a 6 cyl T is that there won't be much room for growth. Stretch its power out much more and you're closing in on overstressing unless they stroke it and lower the redline.
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      05-27-2011, 03:47 PM   #66
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I don't buy the TT V8 rumors either. They'd want to give some excuse for customers to step up to the 6 series coupe. I6TTT makes more sense. Audi already ditched the V8 for a blown 6 in the S4 for the same reasons.
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