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08-16-2011, 04:39 PM | #23 | |
3rd wait as she's in storage for the winter
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08-16-2011, 04:42 PM | #24 |
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They kind of have to come to an end. I mean for $100k you can buy a ZR1 monster, for $65k you can buy a Z06. The Aventador is rated at 700hp. How much more power can a street car make while staying controllable?
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08-16-2011, 06:48 PM | #25 | |
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But yes, BMW does plan to sell some vehicles branded as 1 series, based on the next generation "UKL" chassis shared with mini. |
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08-16-2011, 10:22 PM | #26 |
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Recall when the e9x M3 arrived BMW told us "The new V8 is lighter than the outgoing six!" Somehow they never addressed that the total vehicle weighed 100 kilos more than the E46 M3.
I expect "BMW lightweight technology" won't have made it into the F10 M5. Maybe not the next M3 either.
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08-16-2011, 10:32 PM | #27 |
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Ja, in a straight line.
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08-16-2011, 11:33 PM | #28 |
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I will always pick the lighter car. It's just way more fun to drive.
I'm way ahead of you guys. I took this formula, and as someone already posted: made it even more powerful and even lighter. Something I'm going to carry over to the M3. I figure you should be able to lose about 300 lbs from this car without getting too crazy. Although I haven't had a chance to fully research all the available parts that would help the car lose weight. CF hood, CF trunk, CF roof, Li-ion battery, front seats, wheels, exhaust, brakes(?), suspension(?), headers(?) Last edited by shay2nak; 08-16-2011 at 11:40 PM.. |
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08-17-2011, 12:32 AM | #29 |
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well this is why we have efficient dynamics, why bmw invested so much in a CF/composite plant
they may be the first mass produced car company to have a CF body shell in 5 years or so
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08-17-2011, 07:22 AM | #30 | |
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Oh man, you'd have to pull kicking and screaming from that Exige. Getting married, planning for kids?
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08-17-2011, 10:33 AM | #31 |
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08-17-2011, 10:35 AM | #32 |
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08-17-2011, 10:55 AM | #33 | |
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However, these new standards will definitely lead to significantly more deaths on the road - just as they did the last time manufacturers were hell bent on reducing weight, starting back in the eighties. The problem is not with hitting a tree or wall at 40 mph (or a head on with identical cars going 40, which is the same severity as the tree or wall hit). It's when the Smart Car does a head on with a Chevy Suburban. The soccer mom in the Suburban is going to stop the phone conversation long enough to say "What was that?" or somesuch, while the Smart Car's occupants will have to be hosed out of the vehicle. There is no way NHTSA or your local congress idiot will admit to this, but it's just physics. Heavy vehicle and light vehicle tangle, light vehicle loses. Trust me. There will be a lot of folks hanging on to their heavy machinery as these mileage standards come into play, so be careful out there in your newest M (or AMG, or whatever) made of unobtanium. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 08-17-2011 at 11:05 AM.. |
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08-17-2011, 11:04 AM | #34 |
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08-17-2011, 02:03 PM | #35 |
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Although there is likely a trend here the OP has identified, it will not impact M cars in the next generation. Both the new M5 and M3 will have significantly more power than the existing cars.
The topic as to whether the US Government (what ever that vague term means) is directly responsible for things like engine choice, vehicle weight and hence fuel efficiency of M cars is open to debate. My analysis indicates it is much more about saving money than the forceful hand of Uncle Sam (or other Governments). See my post here and following discussion here. As to safety of near future BMW cars: I don't think there will be any significant enough weight nor structural changes (see F10 M5 weight - higher than E60, also note size of new F3X 3 er - about the same as current) and thus no significant safety changes. The cars will no go to an aluminum frame any time soon and will not be using appreciably more composites outside of the existing locations (bumpers, fenders) for primary structure. Thus no significant changes in safety. Of course I do not disagree with the basic "weight wins" in a safety competition, which is basic physics.
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08-17-2011, 02:09 PM | #36 | |
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Numerous other man-made composite cores were tried as balsa could have long term degration problems but none of the other cores matched the stiffness, weight and NVH benefits of balsa.
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08-17-2011, 02:16 PM | #37 | |
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The torsional rigidity of the Corvette C5 is 9,100 Nm/deg, compare that to the 18,000 Nm/deg for a BMW E46 sedan. Here's a whole list: http://www.**************.com/test-d...-rigidity.html |
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08-17-2011, 02:30 PM | #38 | |
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"Lamborghini Countach 2,600 Nm/deg" that's like my sons electric jeep
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08-17-2011, 07:18 PM | #39 | |
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Speaking of light weight, the BMW M group could take some serious lessons from the Corvette guys in that regard. My '93 weighed 3340 pounds, which is just about what the latest Grand Sport and ZR-1s weigh, in spite of more equipment, bigger engines with more torque (you know where that leads), plus they meet more more stringent safety rules. The current Z06 is even lighter than its brethren. Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 08-17-2011 at 07:29 PM.. |
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08-17-2011, 07:26 PM | #40 | ||
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In what way is this a safety issue? Be specific, please. Bruce PS - As a by the way, my '85 Vette had a torsional rigidity of approximately 1 Nm/deg. Minus one if you took the top off. PPS - Still met all crash regs, front and side. The beams in the doors looked like they came out of a tank. |
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08-17-2011, 08:52 PM | #41 | |
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Dont understand your logic in this. Your safety, what about others? How many can you kill on a 2 wheels vs a 4 wheels? |
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08-17-2011, 08:54 PM | #42 | |
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We are all thinking in term of performance. In the gov. eye, safety will outweigh performance gain unless its in MPG. |
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08-17-2011, 10:50 PM | #43 | |
3rd wait as she's in storage for the winter
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If the govt was concerned with protecting others it would be illegal to drive around with brush guards, snow plows, and massive suspension lifts on trucks. All those things massively endanger people you hit with your truck.
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08-17-2011, 11:53 PM | #44 | |
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If you have two identical accidents, the car with a higher torsional rigidity will receive "less" damage. The BMW Z3 convertible has a torsional rigidity of 5,600Nm/deg and the Bugatti Veyron has one of 60,000Nm/deg. Which would rather be a passenger in if they both hit a tree head on at 50mph? Another way to look at it is to imagine an egg and an aluminum tube being thrown at a brick wall, the egg will get smashed while the aluminum might get dented. Now, I think the only thing stopping cars from becoming lighter is the price of light materials. Also, just because something is light does not mean in cannot be strong. Carbon fiber is five times stronger than steel but the only reason a Kia Rio does not come with a carbon fiber chassis is because it is very expensive. |
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