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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Disturbing 335i info (from inside source)



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      12-19-2005, 08:19 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKEWATER
mundo74
"because freaks like myself chipped it to death"................................l

Formula 1 cars are non turbo and make a little more than 1/3 torque as horsepower.
Example: 1000hp & 350lb.ft. torque
As torque is used to start motion, a little more than 1/3 is more then adequate.
Think of a Suzuki GSXR motor with double VANOS.
Sequential turbo systems are NOT new technology they have been around for more than a decade, VVT in comparison is.


To figure torque:
H.P. times 5252 = X divided by RPM

VVT systems like Double VANOS, (approx. 15%+) add to that number as well as produce torque curves according to the needs of the vehicle.
Making it possible to comfortably drive around the city using low rpm as well as race up the Autobahn using high rpm.
All the h.p. is used
All the rpm is used
All the torque is used
All in one car.
Without the high speed loss of breath or heat soak experienced from f.i.

Not quite sure what your argument is... for or against Turbocharging the 335.

Quincidentally, Formula1 cars use to be turbocharged, but the speed and acceleration they produced exceeded the coarses they raced on and upset the sport, dynamics of fuel and other things were in choas. Noramlly Aspirated engines where brought back and the liters brought up.

Also Formula1 cars are based on ACCELERATION and flies in the face of stop and go car driving while having to fuel up your car and goto work..etc.


High RPM's is costly technology for what you gain. You'll have increase headroom for potentially more Horsepower... that perhaps you'll never use, unless you rev past 6,000rpm's or beyond. You have to wind the engine out to make use of the added cost of manufacuturing a blueprinted engine (forged components..etc) Trimmed down for production offcoarse

-VS-

Forced Induction (Turbocharging) Which gives more torque, more fuel efficiency and more driveability and more use of the implied technology. Meaning 90% of the people make more use of torque than HP, specially when torque comes at 1,000rpm's - 4,000rpm's.



Thus, as a business decision and weighing in all the options... unless your drag racing or have an engine specifiaclly design to have exponential acceleration such as Formaula1 engines... RPM doesn nothing but suite as a test bed for how strong an engine is and test it's reliability.

Turbo for the win...!

I don't want a 335ci that revs to 9,000rpms, thank you veru much.



-Garrett

(PS: Torque is not used to start motion, it is used to accelerate motion.... horepower allows you to maintain what motion you've gained. Although, if you look strickly at the powerband of certain engines a free reving lower toque engines such as those v10 in Formula1 can create crazy acceleration. But those are Million Dollar engines design to rev to 1000 - 19,000 instantly with the help of some very volitale fuel. nutshell.)



Last edited by Garrett; 12-20-2005 at 07:02 AM..
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      12-20-2005, 12:49 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maq
From a marketing point of view, 100hp is enough a gap and turbocharging vs naturally aspirated is enough a difference that the 335 will absolutely not hurt the M3's sales. It's the whole package that matters. The 335 will be just a regular 3-series with a powerful engine, whereas the M3 is an authentic, widebodied, 100hp/litre M car with full M treatment (brakes, suspension, interior, etc.). Also, the M3 is targeted at a niche market, where 90% of the consumers know exactly what they want and what to expect. As for the 335, I bet 90% of its customers don't know what's really going under the hood and have no real clue about the difference between F/I and N/A.

If you insist on that a 300-something hp turbo 335 will hurt the M3's sales, so will a 300-something hp N/A 335. In fact, the N/A car might do even more damage. By introducing F/I with the top-of-the-line 3er, they are drawing a clear line between the traditional M customers and those who just want hp.

As for turning up the boost on a 335, it's not like everyone is into tuning. I'd be suprised if more than 5% of the 335 customers will actually tune it. Besides, BMW has not produced a turbocharged petrol engine in over 20 years, the aftermarket for the new engine has to be built from ground up. So don't expect a lot of cheap/good/reliable tuning options in the first few years.

All that being said, I for one will not buy a turbocharged BMW. I'm one of those people who wouldn't even S/C a 330. I'm a traditionalist myself, but I just don't see the point in making a 3.5L N/A engine for North America only.


All so well said.

My adds:-

There are only two sensible appplications for the market to use 'kompressor/turbo'.
( Not points for any argument )

1. To enable small engine displacement cars to gain more power in countries with high tax on large displacement engines. e.g. MB B200 Turbo, C200K, C230K, Golf GTI etc.

2. To achieve super power for performance cars such as MB's E55AMG ( I am aware of Kompressor for E55 will soon be replaced by new 6.3 litre NA engine). People want affordable 500hp cars would just take whatever are there and available.
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      12-20-2005, 12:54 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tine
The press release was recalled (new press text would be send) and embargo was extended - this is the latest info I've got from a jourmalist guy. BMW sent a fax to his editor.

The other two sources still claim BMW will bring "something" out on Dec 20.

I've also been told two cars are used in press visuals: one Sapphire Black and one Ultramairine Blue. A 335i petrol turbo and a diesel one: 30d. No ZSG mentioned. 320d, 330d, 325i, 330i and 335i are listed in the invalid PR. So no mention of 328i. That brings my (=Scott) and Speed's internal source into question.

I'll try to find out the exact date when the extanded embargo ends. Dec 20 had been the scheduled day, but now one source said it was postponed. I hope we will still see it in the week #51.

What a mess! :mad:

P.S.: Scott says a timing change in a scheduled PR usually mean: a leak (they have to release it earlier), or production problem (they have to postpone it), or a product change (they just have to edit it).

So with this delay, are we talking days or are we talking like weeks.

I really hope its the former
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      12-20-2005, 01:11 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tine
The press release was recalled (new press text would be send) and embargo was extended - this is the latest info I've got from a jourmalist guy. BMW sent a fax to his editor.

The other two sources still claim BMW will bring "something" out on Dec 20.

I've also been told two cars are used in press visuals: one Sapphire Black and one Ultramairine Blue. A 335i petrol turbo and a diesel one: 30d. No ZSG mentioned. 320d, 330d, 325i, 330i and 335i are listed in the invalid PR. So no mention of 328i. That brings my (=Scott) and Speed's internal source into question.

I'll try to find out the exact date when the extanded embargo ends. Dec 20 had been the scheduled day, but now one source said it was postponed. I hope we will still see it in the week #51.

What a mess! :mad:

P.S.: Scott says a timing change in a scheduled PR usually mean: a leak (they have to release it earlier), or production problem (they have to postpone it), or a product change (they just have to edit it).

Once again... for the record... I would like to state that Tine's sources are wrong... as they have been from the beginning.

I have been in constant contact with my sources who state with absolute certainty that there was NO press packet in the hands of the press... as Tine claimed.

There is nothing that proves or supports Tine's claims.

There was no scheduled Dec. 20th release... again... wrong.

There was no press pack... no embargo... no mistakes... no product change... no production change... no truth or factually based information from Tine's sources to this point.

BTW... some of my information comes directly from BMW's Press Club... from the people who are actually handling this entire matter... and not "some journalist" like Tine has stated.

I think Tine is a nice person hoping that he knows some one who knows something.

I'm sorry to say... his sources appear to be completely full of sh!t.
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      12-20-2005, 01:41 AM   #137
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WTF man.... im really disapointed.... i was lookin forward to this shit... well whatever been waiting a long time for it whats another couple of months ...rite?
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      12-20-2005, 01:49 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eshamas21
WTF man.... im really disapointed.... i was lookin forward to this shit... well whatever been waiting a long time for it whats another couple of months ...rite?

Dude... I tried to tell you people... but noooooo...
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      12-20-2005, 01:52 AM   #139
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Yeah, the wait has become quite frustrating. BMW release the damn pics already! :mad: :mad:

And screw this thread. I'm never clicking it again!
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      12-20-2005, 03:57 AM   #140
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Hey, don't shoot the messenger!

My sources may be wrong to some extent, but I still trust them (Like US do with Bush after Iraq/WMD fiasco ).

The journalist guy has read me the lines from the press kit. Told me about some details etc. I don't think he is joking with me.

We shall wait and see. But we will hear about the E92 (and also see the pics) very soon. Way before Geneva.

Again: do not shoot the messenger!
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      12-20-2005, 04:18 AM   #141
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http://www.translator.it/recommended.html

German:kompressor

English
Noun compressor, booster



German:kompressor: mit kompressor

English
Adjective supercharged

http://www.translator.it/recommended.html
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      12-20-2005, 04:26 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!
Once again... for the record... I would like to state that Tine's sources are wrong... as they have been from the beginning.

I have been in constant contact with my sources who state with absolute certainty that there was NO press packet in the hands of the press... as Tine claimed.

There is nothing that proves or supports Tine's claims.

There was no scheduled Dec. 20th release... again... wrong.

There was no press pack... no embargo... no mistakes... no product change... no production change... no truth or factually based information from Tine's sources to this point.

BTW... some of my information comes directly from BMW's Press Club... from the people who are actually handling this entire matter... and not "some journalist" like Tine has stated.

I think Tine is a nice person hoping that he knows some one who knows something.

I'm sorry to say... his sources appear to be completely full of sh!t.

If the pictures will soon be released, and they are indeed Safire Black and Ultramarine, then we know Tine is right. Lets leave it there.
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      12-20-2005, 09:02 AM   #143
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FIRST Announcement

here


WOW , radical looks
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      12-20-2005, 09:04 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0700700
FIRST Announcement

here


WOW , radical looks
Is that supposed to be funny?
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      12-20-2005, 09:05 AM   #145
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      12-20-2005, 09:54 AM   #146
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280 hp is a pretty good bump!
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      12-20-2005, 10:27 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightnow
If the pictures will soon be released, and they are indeed Safire Black and Ultramarine, then we know Tine is right. Lets leave it there.

No we won't.

Potential colors are hardly a confirmation that a source is correct. That would be considered an extremely low level of concern.

Potential copy is also far from any kind of confirmation... especially considering the fact that BMW tests these sorts of things. Hardly top secret stuff.

I have been telling you people this all along. Tine's alleged sources are in Europe. Nothing he has said so far has been true for our market and our press. I have acknowledged over and over that I don't know how they do things over there, but find it hard to believe that they would handle their PR any differently then they handle it over here.

There is no US press packet here... no embargo... no pictures in anyone's hands... period.

Some of what he has said could come true for Europe. I have said this from day one, however... it does not apply to our market.
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      12-20-2005, 10:58 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!
No we won't.

Potential colors are hardly a confirmation that a source is correct. That would be considered an extremely low level of concern.

Potential copy is also far from any kind of confirmation... especially considering the fact that BMW tests these sorts of things. Hardly top secret stuff.

I have been telling you people this all along. Tine's alleged sources are in Europe. Nothing he has said so far has been true for our market and our press. I have acknowledged over and over that I don't know how they do things over there, but find it hard to believe that they would handle their PR any differently then they handle it over here.

There is no US press packet here... no embargo... no pictures in anyone's hands... period.

Some of what he has said could come true for Europe. I have said this from day one, however... it does not apply to our market.
So e90post.com is for US only? Okey thats news for me...
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      12-20-2005, 11:12 AM   #149
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I live in Europe too...and I also thought this site applies worldwide as well, although 80-90percent of the members are probably US citizens...

Anyway, im so anxious about the E92...please post more news and info!

I read on a german site about 0-100km/h in 5.5"...
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      12-20-2005, 11:12 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightnow
So e90post.com is for US only? Okey thats news for me...

What the hell are you talking about?
I never said that. This has been a debate for the last few months regarding US market specific information. My reason for pointing this out is simple... I don't want to be misquoted... or misunderstood. I am making sure that everyone remembers that I am only able to access US market information and would never try to pose as a world market specialist.
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      12-20-2005, 12:08 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!
I have been telling you people this all along. Tine's alleged sources are in Europe. Nothing he has said so far has been true for our market and our press. I have acknowledged over and over that I don't know how they do things over there, but find it hard to believe that they would handle their PR any differently then they handle it over here.
Calm down Speed. No need to get all defensive. I am not sure if they will happen today, but they are coming soon. And they will be Ultramarine, that I am almost positive about.

Your whole grip about the US vs. Europe is starting to tire me. While a variation or detail may change between the Europe and US 3-series, they both will look pretty much identical. This is for a Europe press release, not a US press release, but the pictures like I said will be identical.

-Brett
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      12-20-2005, 12:38 PM   #152
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why do you people constantly attack speed?.. he is doing us a favor!!! thanks for the informative posts speedfreak!!! I appreciate any insight you have and look forward to your posts.. so keep it up
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      12-20-2005, 12:51 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crex
why do you people constantly attack speed?...
We "attack" speed to defend others . He refuses to admit he may be wrong and states everything with affirmative answer. The fact is he refuses to believe that the Europe market has ANY relationship to the US market and that is quite annoying.

Watch his opinion over time and see what happens. He changes it constantly, and then blames his changes on the shift in opinion at BMW. Tines source on the other hand (who I know) has definite opinions, and rarely changes them.

I promise you the pictures will come out (sometime in the near future) and when they do Speed is going to have an excuse to how he isn't wrong!

-Brett
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      12-20-2005, 12:53 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett
Calm down Speed. No need to get all defensive. I am not sure if they will happen today, but they are coming soon. And they will be Ultramarine, that I am almost positive about.

Your whole grip about the US vs. Europe is starting to tire me. While a variation or detail may change between the Europe and US 3-series, they both will look pretty much identical. This is for a Europe press release, not a US press release, but the pictures like I said will be identical.

-Brett
So then grab a pillow and take a nap.

As for being defensive... you have me confused with those who have aggressively disagreed with me.

So far... I am the only one who has been right.

Therefor I have no need to be defensive. They do.
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