VIR/HPDE Advice Needed

[S65 Underdog]

I will be moving to the VIR area (2.5 hours) away which is nothing compared to my 4 hour drive to the Nurburgring. I have had the opportunity to begin my passion for Motorsports in Germany at the Ring meeting great people and gaining a ton of experience from them and the track. The downfall from this is that it's a crazy world here with very little rules. Only real rules we have on tourist days is that you can only pass on the left, initiate your right blinker if being passed (more of a courtesy) and no taking on the inside of any turns. Otherwise as long as your car is road legal you are good to go.

VIR, I am to pay $3,000 initial fees then another $2,100. Can I just pay for a day/weekend instead. My work sometimes prevents me from playing on the weekends.

HPDE, is this a requirement or just a beneficial membership to have? I am guessing this is a good idea to gain more experience from the instructors? Are these the guys that can license me for competition? I see the applications on the site.

A VIR membership and HPDE membership is excessive?

What are the safety requirement I need for myself/car on regular track days? I understand the helmet rules, anything else?

Your recommendations will be much appreciated, thanks in advance. If I missed anything you think I should know (I'm sure I did) please mention so.

I look forward to VIR and the locals, take care.

[Foozed]

How many track days do you plan on per year?
You're speaking about the vir club specifically which gives you access to 13 or 15 member days per year with the vir club.
Members can bring guests where'd you'd pay around 350 for a day you should probably try to get to know a member and go as a guest one day.
Aside from that there are over a dozen clubs that provide track days at vir which you could sign up for and go on the days they have schedule with no other membership obligations. This is what I do and get anywhere from 8-10 track days at vir in per year - cost anywhere from 250-350 per day.

[S65 Underdog]

Originally Posted by Foozed

How many track days do you plan on per year?
You're speaking about the vir club specifically which gives you access to 13 or 15 member days per year with the vir club.
Members can bring guests where'd you'd pay around 350 for a day you should probably try to get to know a member and go as a guest one day.
Aside from that there are over a dozen clubs that provide track days at vir which you could sign up for and go on the days they have schedule with no other membership obligations. This is what I do and get anywhere from 8-10 track days at vir in per year - cost anywhere from 250-350 per day.

Thanks for the reply, I am not too sure how many days I would plan a year, maybe once a month max, minimum every other month for the entire weekend. What are the typical restrictions you encounter with these clubs?

[CSBM5]

Tarheel Chapter BMW CCA, Tarheel Sports Car Club are two examples:

http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/

http://www.thscc.com/

There are plenty of others too. One option would be to do a search on www.motorsportreg.com. Also, you can look at the VIR calendar on their web site to see what clubs have reserved the track.

[S65 Underdog]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Tarheel Chapter BMW CCA, Tarheel Sports Car Club are two examples:

http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/

http://www.thscc.com/

There are plenty of others too. One option would be to do a search on www.motorsportreg.com. Also, you can look at the VIR calendar on their web site to see what clubs have reserved the track.

Outstanding, thanks!!! Are you a member of any of these clubs or do you do the same and just show to events and pay for the day?

[dcgolfdr]

Originally Posted by S65 Underdog

Thanks for the reply, I am not too sure how many days I would plan a year, maybe once a month max, minimum every other month for the entire weekend. What are the typical restrictions you encounter with these clubs?

Don't be an asshole is the biggest restriction

[S65 Underdog]

Originally Posted by dcgolfdr

Don't be an asshole is the biggest restriction

I will keep that in mind.

[jphughan]

HPDE isn't a membership; it just means "High Performance Driving Event". As others have said, even on tracks that have their own membership organizations, many outside organizations (such as BMW CCA) arrange events at those tracks so that you only have to pay that organizer for that single event. You might also have to be a member of the organization arranging the event, but in the case of BMW CCA, that's only $40/year, and frankly in their case the discounts on parts and service and the Roundel magazine alone justify that amount -- not to mention the discount on buying a new or CPO BMW.

In terms of restrictions, different organizers have different routines, but here are some common restrictions:

- Tech Inspection prior to event: Practically all organizers require this to have been done no earlier than a certain time before the event. Basically you print out a form, hand it to any certified mechanic to complete (which usually costs ~$30 if nothing is wrong), and bring that form with you on the day of the event to give to the organizer.

- Convertibles: This varies widely among organizers. Some allow convertibles as long as they have aftermarket or factory rollover protection, others do not allow any convertibles, including hardtop convertibles. For organizations that do allow convertibles, some require you to pass the "broomstick test", i.e. the organizer must be able to place one end of a broomstick on top of your windshield and the other on top of the roll bar. If the top of your helmet isn't under that broomstick (and sometimes with at least a few inches of clearance), your car isn't approved. That test can't be conducted on cars with pop-up rollover protection, of course, but factory rollover protection is usually automatically approved.

- Open Wheel Cars / Motorcycles: I don't know of an event that allows motorcycles to run at the same time as cars, or even a single event that allows both in separate sessions. Open wheel cars are also typically not allowed, though some organizers will allow them to run with "regular" cars in advanced run groups.

- Track Insurance: Some organizers require you to carry insurance that remains in effect for the HPDE. Over the past few years, most regular road insurance providers have removed coverage for HPDEs, so unless you have one of the few that still covers them, you may need to buy track insurance from somewhere like Lockton HPDE Insurance or OnTrackInsurance.com. Other organizers merely strongly recommend insurance coverage. Note that either way, insurance coverage on track will typically NOT include bodily injury liability coverage for you or anyone you hurt while you're on the track. The policy only covers damage to your car and possibly damage to the track, the latter of which nice places like VIR will absolutely hold you liable for -- and it's expensive. I've heard that at VIR, if you go off-track you'll get a bill for the landscaping because they keep it so nice out there.

- Sticky Tires: Many organizers typically restrict slick and R-compound tires to the advanced run groups because they've found that when novice and intermediate students use them, the tires merely cover up mistakes and generally hinder the learning process. Those tires also lose traction much more abruptly, which less experienced students might not be prepared to handle. Exceptions to this are usually made if R-compound tires are OEM for the car, e.g. 911 GT3.

- Race Seats and Harnesses: These are not required, but most organizers specify that the driver and passenger seat and restraint setups must be identical, i.e. you can't upgrade just the driver's side. The only exception is if you're a solo-approved driver and will not be taking any passengers, in which case you technically don't even need a passenger seat.

- Passing: With most if not all organizers, passing ALWAYS requires a point-by, i.e. the trailing car must wait to receive a hand signal from the lead car to pass. In addition, typically there are designated "passing zones" on the track, with passing only allowed to occur in those areas, but some organizers will allow the advanced groups and instructors to have "open passing", which means passing can occur anywhere on track -- but again, only with a point-by. As a courtesy gesture, if you're the lead car with another car behind you waiting to pass, tapping your rearview mirror tells the trailing car that you're aware of his/her presence and will allow him/her to pass at the next passing zone. The trailing car will often give you a bit more breathing room if you do that. The point-by requirement definitely causes "trains" to develop occasionally in the lower run groups (especially in the first sessions of the first day) because less experienced students haven't developed the mental bandwidth to check their mirrors and focus on their driving at the same time, so they often don't notice the car(s) behind them immediately. Instructors riding along often help with that, but not as often as you'd think. Avoiding trains is one of the perks of getting to the upper run groups. Until then, gridding up toward the front of the pack if you're one of the faster people in your run group is usually good for at least a few unencumbered laps.

- Passengers: Instructors are usually allowed to take passengers in their cars, and sometimes the top student run group is also allowed. Otherwise, the only passengers allowed in your car are instructors. All passengers must typically be 18 or older.

- Instructors driving your car: This one varies widely among organizers. I wish it were more prevalent, because I've learned a lot from having an instructor drive my car while I ride along. It gives me something to aspire to because I can see what can be done in my exact car, and my instructor gets a better sense of the limits and behavior of my car, which helps him/her instruct me. It's also a great way to stave off the, "I would be so much faster if I installed [whatever mod]" thinking.

Note that the above is for formal HPDEs with instructors and separate sessions for separate run groups. If you're a member of a track where membership entitles you to just show up and drive on member days -- or you attend an "open track day", which is more what you seem to be used to -- then some of the above rules may not apply. You also will likely not have instructors or separate run groups, and nobody offers insurance for such unstructured events.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by S65 Underdog

Outstanding, thanks!!! Are you a member of any of these clubs or do you do the same and just show to events and pay for the day?

Yes to both clubs. I've been a BMWCCA member for 34 years now and actually joined the first time to attend a track event at Road Atlanta in 1980. I used to instruct from 1984 onward, but I no longer am active at track events; however, I long ago dropped out of instructing due to a few things: (1) no desire to ride shotgun in 400+hp cars at fast tracks; (2) it made for harried weekends since between two students plus an instructor session, I was always running around like a jackrabbit -- much more fun to either just pay for an a weekend or in recent years attending private rentals (I've rented NCCAR a number of times for just 3-4 to have a great, relaxing time for example).

First joined THSCC back in the 70s for autocrossing (that's all they did back then), but they run first rate track events every bit as good as the CCA with a lot of the same instructors, etc. The THSCC is still a very active autocross (and now rallycross) club too...after all these years...with great folks volunteering to run the show.

Another excellent organization is Asphalt Ventures by the way, and there are others that run at VIR too.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by jphughan

- Convertibles: This varies widely among organizers. Some allow convertibles as long as they have aftermarket or factory rollover protection, others do not allow any convertibles, including hardtop convertibles. BMW CCA is currently in the latter category. For organizations that do allow convertibles, some require you to pass the "broomstick test", i.e. the organizer must be able to place one end of a broomstick on top of your windshield and the other on top of the roll bar. If the top of your helmet isn't under that broomstick (and sometimes with at least a few inches of clearance), your car isn't approved. That test can't be conducted on cars with pop-up rollover protection, of course, but factory rollover protection is usually automatically approved.

That's not true. BMW CCA allows for convertibles with aftermarket roll protection that passes the broomstick test.

Except national allows local chapters to enforce a more restrictive rule. So it is possible SOME local BMW CCA chapters won't allow convertibles. But there's nothing in the National operating standards that specifically prevents or disallows convertibles being operated in our DE program.

Just to clarify.

[bigjae1976]

First, you are a lucky f*cker...you move away from the Nurburgring to live near VIR?

I'd say HPDE is more cost effective. I've been to open lapping events. Besides killing your tires, brakes, fuel, and your car in general...you'll get worn out pretty quick. HPDEs is like getting a controlled dose of drugs. Open lapping days is like a crack head heaven...unlimited crack to feast on.

I think I end up driving more at HPDEs than I do at open lapping days.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

That's not true. BMW CCA allows for convertibles with aftermarket roll protection that passes the broomstick test.

Except national allows local chapters to enforce a more restrictive rule. So it is possible SOME local BMW CCA chapters won't allow convertibles. But there's nothing in the National operating standards that specifically prevents or disallows convertibles being operated in our DE program.

Just to clarify.

Thanks! The Texas chapters don't allow convertibles at all last time I checked, but good to know.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Thanks! The Texas chapters don't allow convertibles at all last time I checked, but good to know.

They do allow convertibles. Miatas are convertibles and they run with BMWCCA LSR.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

They do allow convertibles. Miatas are convertibles and they run with BMWCCA LSR.

Hmm, was it just the Trifecta then, or is this new?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Hmm, was it just the Trifecta then, or is this new?

Nope. The rule is the same nationally. Need a roll cage and must pass the broom stick test.