BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-17-2013, 09:33 PM   #1013
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

This is a fantastic idea and forces the issue with BMW. What better way to protect us if engines start blowing, ie the issue was actually brought up by M3 owners and experts in a cogent and documented fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Steel View Post
A petition is a more plausible solution. A lawsuit is to negative an action. A petition signed by many and presented to BMW to do research into this issue is something we should do.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2013, 09:51 PM   #1014
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
427
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
I've brought it up several times now. I guess we'll have to wait and see if my bearings outlast my factory warranty.
Until this thread existed, there was never any data for anybody to use. I don't know how long it would take to get one going. This thread isn't two months old yet. I also don't know much about how they get started, and wouldn't matter to me because I wouldn't have any standing in such a lawsuit anyways (I chose to modify my motor right after I bought it).
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #1015
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
427
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Steel View Post
Isn't some kind of a petition a more plausible solution? A lawsuit is to negative an action. A petition signed by many and presented to BMW to do research into this issue is something we should do. Our concern would be documented, and if ignored can be used against them if needed in the future that they did nothing.
That sounds like a pretty brilliant idea to me. Has lots of benefits if it's needed later.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2013, 10:00 PM   #1016
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
I posted that. It will be looked at case-by-case and a goodwill be extended. No details of the issues but when he talked about "bearing problems" I don't whether he was refering to any internally known issue, or the discussions on internet forums like this.

BMW Australia has been extremely good with their goodwill and they have looked after customers well after the warranty has expired. That's why I am relaxed about this issue.
Thanks for the confirmation. I thought it was you, but when I searched, I couldn't find the quote. I did see how your thoughts on this subject have gone back and forth over time. Absolutely nothing wrong with that; you seem like a very honest and well intentioned guy. I hate it when people try to nail you just because you learn something and change your mind.
It is about respecting every person who posts here. We all bring our individual knowledge, experience and expertise and share it for everyone's benefit. You have done a lot of research on the matter and published them and have respectfully responded to others' queries. New things have come to light during various enquiries and it's all about taking notes and drawing you own conclusion. At the end of the day, it is your pride and joy and how you take care of it is your responsibility. I am learning and I am sure others are too. Keep up with the good work. At least we have the opportunity to discuss the issues in common.
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2013, 11:58 PM   #1017
MFL
Major
MFL's Avatar
174
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bellevue, WA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2010 BMW M3  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
Until this thread existed, there was never any data for anybody to use. I don't know how long it would take to get one going. This thread isn't two months old yet. I also don't know much about how they get started, and wouldn't matter to me because I wouldn't have any standing in such a lawsuit anyways (I chose to modify my motor right after I bought it).
Look at BMW's track record for admitting fault. It's kind of bullshit if you ask me. Most recently comes to mind are the E46 rear subframes and the 335 HPFP issue, both of which were resolved via Class Action Lawsuits.

I love how people are wanting numbers as to how many failed, those are only speculative until you BMW is forced to provide those numbers during the discovery process.

They are rolling the dice on these and going at them on a case by case basis and will continue to do so until someone forces them to be honest and man up. They've done this very thing before and they will continue to do it in the future. This is undoubtedly my last BMW that I own. I may lease one later, but I wouldn't dream of owning another one outside of a warranty.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 01:17 AM   #1018
Yellow Snow
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
7
Rep
311
Posts

Drives: 335d Coupe. Stock no more!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
As a matter of interest. Take a look at the crank sizes from Reg Guys first page post.

Two used cranks from random cars which could have possibly been manufactured over a few years span and both with different mileages
Both engines are well known to me. Here's the answer.

Crank-1 has already been documented in this thread as S65, ~30000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2008. Crank-2 specs are as follows: S65, ~11000 Miles, Bone Stock, 2008.
So even you would have to admit that the sizes of both those cranks and the 78k mile S85 that I measured all being within a tenth is pretty good. Yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
What did your research tell you about the cause and solution to the wear shown in that photo. BTW, there should be at least two or three more bearings that look just like it.
My research told me that the Carillo rods that you had installed on your previously rebuilt Na motor were replaced for a new set with extra material on the shoulders due to bore distortion and the addition of a blower.

Yes the pattern across 2 or 3 others was similar.

It was highlighted to show that even Carillo rods can have faults. I note they also seem to run tighter than the BMW rods.

Last edited by Yellow Snow; 11-18-2013 at 09:38 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 02:02 AM   #1019
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

All of these theories are interesting. Has anyone been able to get a word from Dinan on why they open up the clearance on their stroker builds if the clearance is not problematic?
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 03:59 AM   #1020
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants
What stands out is that the supercharged motor shows far less wear than the stock car...this is surely contrary to expected as the increase in CR and HP should cause significantly higher loads on the bearings during the combustion cycle of the supercharged motor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
Not sure where this factoid came from. The supercharged motor actually had slightly lower compression than stock...not more.
So just to be absolutely clear...at maximum supercharger boost the effective CR does not exceed that of the standard engine?
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 04:20 AM   #1021
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants
It is a bit rich that pictures of piston crowns posted to demonstrate that no detonation was occurring then require some contortions to try and explain the clear evidence of poor combustion and micro pitting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
There is no pitting on the pistons whatsoever. Please circle and repost photos of the areas of the pistons to show where you think pitting occurred.
Take piston #8
What indicators of some level of detonation are you looking for: Firstly the evidence of a clean burn in the area of the cooler intake valves combined with a build up of carbon in the area below the hotter exhaust valves due to poorly controlled and accelerated combustion. Secondly a fine grainy sand blasted appearance visible on the carbon deposits in the same area below the exhaust valves.
Oh and the shop started up and stopped the car every day for 2.5 months! really? If so, I hope the cats had been removed else they would be most likely shagged.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 04:38 AM   #1022
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants
Another false dichotomy.
And what exactly do you think BMW is going to say to guy#2...
"what is it you say...there is someone on the internet who says BMW don't know crap about engines? Why didn't you say that sooner, have this new engine free on us"
BMW couldn't care less about some theory on the internet no matter how well it is dressed up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
I don't think the word "dichotomy" means what you think it means.
"A false dichotomy is typically used in an argument to force your opponent into an extreme position -- by making the assumption that there are only two positions."
Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
[....] I'm pretty sure you knew I was asking an ethics question. It very similar if I asked you if your motor blew and you planned to eat the cost of it knowing you had a tune. Or would you try to hide the tune, return the tune back to stock, then ask BMW for a warranty.
Both are very fair questions. I personally think most would try to get the free motor than stand on their ideals and ethics and eat the cost.
Ethics are very much a personal thing.
If someone dropped a large $ bill and walked off I would pick it up and gave it back.
If I got too much change from a small corner shop I would give it back.
Where it starts to get blurred is with big companies, if I got too much change from a large supermarket I would be far less bothered about fessing up.
I've never been in the position where I have had to lie to a car dealer to get the right thing done...(I have had to argue extensively to get the right thing done plenty times though)....so I don't know what I would do.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 04:51 AM   #1023
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

I think I must be getting confused.
post #2 under the section headed:

"Discovering S65 Bearing Issue
The bearings shown above came from a supercharged stroker motor. The engine was 4.6L and ran a very modest 6.0 PSI boost. After 24,000 miles, the engine was disassembled in July 2010 to rebuild as a low comperssion 4.7L motor. The bearings were photographed and stashed away. I always thought the bearings looked pretty "ratty" but at the time, nobody thought anything else about it. Today these photos might be ground-zero, exhibit-one in the discussion of rod bearing clearance."

Am I understanding this correctly - This "ground zero" engine was not using BMW standard rods but Carillo aftermarket rods?
If so why are its bearing data/pictures even being included?

Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 11-18-2013 at 05:04 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 09:20 AM   #1024
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants
I think I must be getting confused.
post #2 under the section headed:

"Discovering S65 Bearing Issue
The bearings shown above came from a supercharged stroker motor. The engine was 4.6L and ran a very modest 6.0 PSI boost. After 24,000 miles, the engine was disassembled in July 2010 to rebuild as a low comperssion 4.7L motor. The bearings were photographed and stashed away. I always thought the bearings looked pretty "ratty" but at the time, nobody thought anything else about it. Today these photos might be ground-zero, exhibit-one in the discussion of rod bearing clearance."

Am I understanding this correctly - This "ground zero" engine was not using BMW standard rods but Carillo aftermarket rods?
If so why are its bearing data/pictures even being included?
Why should they not be included?! The fact that they look in much better shape than bearings from stock engines should tell you that the OEM rods inability to stay round on the big end bore is a contributing factor to the bearing wear.

If clearances are tight it is even more important for the rods to stay completely true. With 0.002" or more clearance the deformation of the big end bore of the rod may not even matter since you would have "some room" for things like that.

You see, looser clearances are specced in engines to give some forgiveness for things like the big end of the rod becoming oblong at high cylinder pressures and high RPM. The tighter an engine is built the better the parts in it have to be and the more precise everything else has to be...... LTrust me when I say a bit of extra clearance goes a long way to prevent issues down the road.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #1025
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
812
Rep
7,888
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Why should they not be included?! The fact that they look in much better shape than bearings from stock engines should tell you that the OEM rods inability to stay round on the big end bore is a contributing factor to the bearing wear.

If clearances are tight it is even more important for the rods to stay completely true. With 0.002" or more clearance the deformation of the big end bore of the rod may not even matter since you would have "some room" for things like that.

You see, looser clearances are specced in engines to give some forgiveness for things like the big end of the rod becoming oblong at high cylinder pressures and high RPM. The tighter an engine is built the better the parts in it have to be and the more precise everything else has to be...... LTrust me when I say a bit of extra clearance goes a long way to prevent issues down the road.
Hey Jamie.Do you check bottom end clearances like this guy ?

Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 09:40 AM   #1026
Yellow Snow
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
7
Rep
311
Posts

Drives: 335d Coupe. Stock no more!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Why should they not be included?! The fact that they look in much better shape than bearings from stock engines should tell you that the OEM rods inability to stay round on the big end bore is a contributing factor to the bearing wear.

If clearances are tight it is even more important for the rods to stay completely true. With 0.002" or more clearance the deformation of the big end bore of the rod may not even matter since you would have "some room" for things like that.

You see, looser clearances are specced in engines to give some forgiveness for things like the big end of the rod becoming oblong at high cylinder pressures and high RPM. The tighter an engine is built the better the parts in it have to be and the more precise everything else has to be...... LTrust me when I say a bit of extra clearance goes a long way to prevent issues down the road.
I wouldn't say this particular Carillo rod looks as good as an oem rod for roundness.

Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #1027
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
I wouldn't say this particular Carillo rod looks as good as an oem rod for roundness.

Part of that wear at the part line points to the fastener. The bearing shells from carillos look better than any of the other OEM bearings pictured though........ Agree?
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 10:20 AM   #1028
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2510
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Why should they not be included?! The fact that they look in much better shape than bearings from stock engines should tell you that the OEM rods inability to stay round on the big end bore is a contributing factor to the bearing wear.
Well because the reasoning is invalid:
You can't support the theory that BMW S65 rod bearing clearances are faulty by illustrating the high bearing wear rate seen in an environment controlled by a non BMW part.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 10:45 AM   #1029
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Hey Jamie.Do you check bottom end clearances like this guy ?


No not quite, the 3600 series engines like this one are used in either power generation, gas compression or marine applications. The largest cat engines we have are the C175 and 3500 series....... The 3600 series is considerably larger that either of them and has a bore of 11" and displaces 18.5L per cylinder. Although our engines are big a person wouldn't fit through the inspection covers on the crankcase.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #1030
swartzentruber
Captain
United_States
30
Rep
742
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago NW suburbs, IL

iTrader: (0)

Regular_guy, in the interests of keeping this thread accurate, I think it would be helpful to edit this in your list of "3 truths", particularly since people have mentioned using this thread as evidence of a problem if their engine blows -- "2.The bearing wear patterns we're seeing all match the Clevite online/interactive bearing failure diagnosis web site, example #12 "Oil Starvation / Marginal Oil Film Thickness." The main cause mentioned by Clevite for this type of failure is "too little bearing oil clearance." (3)". As I've previously pointed out, Clevite lists 7 distinct causes, and makes no mention of a "main" cause. You have previously admitted you decided this was a main cause because it was listed first. I'm just pointing this out, because you seem to want this thread to be pretty factual, and I don't find this statement to be very factual.

Secondly, you continue to express frustration/surprise/etc. on the fact that people continue to link the "too little clearance" data you've presented to engine failures. I would urge you to reread the section on the first page titled "What does this mean to you?". While I agree you don't come right out and link too little clearance to engine failures, it also stands to reason that any informed person reading your data and then reading that paragraph would not immediately jump to the conclusion that low clearance = engine failure. You even mention catastrophic engine failure in that paragraph. If you are truly trying to keep this thread factual about bearing clearances and not engine failure, then I'd urge you to edit or even remove that paragraph. If not, then I'd suggest you should not be surprised that engine failure theories continue to come into this thread.
__________________
2011 Jerez Black/Fox Red E90 M3 DCT, ZCP, ZCV, ZCW, ZP2, BMW Apps
2015 Golf R
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 11:32 AM   #1031
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
Regular_guy, in the interests of keeping this thread accurate, I think it would be helpful to edit this in your list of "3 truths", particularly since people have mentioned using this thread as evidence of a problem if their engine blows -- "2.The bearing wear patterns we're seeing all match the Clevite online/interactive bearing failure diagnosis web site, example #12 "Oil Starvation / Marginal Oil Film Thickness." The main cause mentioned by Clevite for this type of failure is "too little bearing oil clearance." (3)". As I've previously pointed out, Clevite lists 7 distinct causes, and makes no mention of a "main" cause. You have previously admitted you decided this was a main cause because it was listed first. I'm just pointing this out, because you seem to want this thread to be pretty factual, and I don't find this statement to be very factual.

Secondly, you continue to express frustration/surprise/etc. on the fact that people continue to link the "too little clearance" data you've presented to engine failures. I would urge you to reread the section on the first page titled "What does this mean to you?". While I agree you don't come right out and link too little clearance to engine failures, it also stands to reason that any informed person reading your data and then reading that paragraph would not immediately jump to the conclusion that low clearance = engine failure. You even mention catastrophic engine failure in that paragraph. If you are truly trying to keep this thread factual about bearing clearances and not engine failure, then I'd urge you to edit or even remove that paragraph. If not, then I'd suggest you should not be surprised that engine failure theories continue to come into this thread.
I think anyone who knows and works on engines knows the importance of having proper oil clearance and the result of not having proper oil clearance is usually not good.

I honestly think that the armchair experts don't understand how important it is having clearances set properly. most of them have never seen the damage that a rod bearing failure can cause. If a rod bearing does fail due to oil starvation/inadequate clearance and the rod seizes 99% of the time it ends up breaking off and destroying the entire engine and next to nothing will be salvageable. Last month at work spun rod bearings destroyed two engines at a cost of $1Million each. The engines were so badly damaged that the blocks are now only good for scrap metal. The root cause of these failures was improper bearing part numbers being printed on the bearing packaging and therefore improper clearance was a result. Had the assembler measured the rods before install he would have caught this million dollar mistakes quite quickly.

Are all S65's going to grenade, no, but the risk is always there. Since BMW doesn't do select fitting on the mains and rods during assembly you will never know what clearances you have, and if your engine has an overly tight rod bearing or not. Even if different bearing sizes were available to dial the clearances in for each journal this would not be nearly as big of an issue. Since BMW only has one bearing size for the rods we are all totally at the mercy of the machine work done on the crank and rods.

Again, I am not trying to scare anyone, I am just telling you that my personal M3 is having the engine clearances set to what I deem an appropriate/accepted setting. Until my engine gets pulled apart I will be running the 0W40 to try and prevent any oil cavitation/starvation. If people don't plan on keeping these cars out of warranty just drive them and enjoy them, you may never have an issue...... But...... For the people who intend on keeping them for a long time I strongly urge you all to at least consider having the clearances set to something more sensible.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 11-18-2013 at 11:45 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 11:47 AM   #1032
swartzentruber
Captain
United_States
30
Rep
742
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago NW suburbs, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post


This makes me wonder the following. Suppose one of the octane guys blows his motor 50 miles after his warranty expires. The motor blew by throwing a rod out the side of the block and owner picks up the pieces and finds that the connecting rod big end is blue. Which is going to be more likely from the guy who doesn't believe that these clearances are an issue:

The guy stays silent and pays for his own motor believing that the mere presence of low octane gas in his country is the most likely cause of his blown motor and blue connecting rod.

OR

The guy goes into BMW and says "you bastards, we all know you have too little oil clearance and this is well documented and I can point you to the articles and proof. I really think you should replace my motor under a good will gesture."
Why would someone who lives in a low octane state (i.e. 91) not also go to BMW and say "you bastards, you produced an engine that was supposed to allow usage of 91, and yet my engine blew using it.

I'm not sure why there's this dichotomy (there's that word again) that low clearance means BMWs fault and detonation means BMW is off the hook. They still stated that 91 was acceptable, and if it were to turn out that 91 in warm weather states leads to too much detonation,and then a blown engine, I'd still consider that to be BMW's problem. Right now I'm more interested in trying to find a cause that fits the data than try to assign blame.
__________________
2011 Jerez Black/Fox Red E90 M3 DCT, ZCP, ZCV, ZCW, ZP2, BMW Apps
2015 Golf R
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #1033
swartzentruber
Captain
United_States
30
Rep
742
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago NW suburbs, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
I think anyone who knows and works on engines knows the importance of having proper oil clearance and the result of not having proper oil clearance is usually not good.

I honestly think that the armchair experts don't understand how important it is having clearances set properly.
I don't think anyone in the thread, even the more skeptical members, are questioning the importance of proper bearing clearance. I'm just pointing out that in the interests of keeping this a factual thread, you cannot say that Clevite calls too small clearance the main cause when they make no such claim out of 7 possible causes. And secondly, you shouldn't be surprised that people make the logical jump from low clearance to engine failure. It could very well be that low clearance is causing these failures. I just don't think with a paragraph written that way it should be that surprising that with this data, and how that paragraph is written, it is natural that people jump to the conclusion that the low clearance is causing the failures, even if it doesn't come out and explicitly make that linkage.
__________________
2011 Jerez Black/Fox Red E90 M3 DCT, ZCP, ZCV, ZCW, ZP2, BMW Apps
2015 Golf R

Last edited by swartzentruber; 11-18-2013 at 12:22 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2013, 12:32 PM   #1034
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I don't think anyone in the thread, even the more skeptical members, are questioning the importance of proper bearing clearance. I'm just pointing out that in the interests of keeping this a factual thread, you cannot say that Clevite calls too small clearance the main cause when they make no such claim out of 7 possible causes. And secondly, you shouldn't be surprised that people make the logical jump from low clearance to engine failure. It could very well be that low clearance is causing these failures. I just don't think with a paragraph written that way it should be that surprising that with this data, and how that paragraph is written, it is natural that people jump to the conclusion that the low clearance is causing the failures, even if it doesn't come out and explicitly make that linkage.
Point taken!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST