BPM vs. ESS

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I think that both cars should flash to stock and then compare.

After that there is a baseline to go off of. Full tank of gas, same tire pressures, same shifting mode, etc..

Then tune and see what happens. Sti, ill even send you a logging software so you can log the runs

Anyway, no one should get bent out of shape about this.

Perhaps this is a good idea ^ ^ ^ ^

[BuckRodgers]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

It blows my mind how you have stated that you are down for this, we do a few test runs and you see that my car pulls so we do a few more and its only reduced to less of a pull because you decided to adjust your shifting point. Then we do a few more on the Autobahn with you getting pulled on and you quit all of a sudden talking about "variables" this and "variables" that. You stated to me at least two times that you see the BPM tune pulling harder but now you say we are even? WTF Dude!?!?!?!

Your a friend of mine but you are back pedaling and only feeding the trolls and allowing them to win with there Million variables BS!

BPM clearly has the better over all tune and you know it bro! That is what we started this for and you can't even end it properly, just quitting.

I think Uber finally realized what everyone else except you seem to understand and that is that comparing NA tunes in this manner is a waste of time unless you want to just do it for fun. You did a fun run VS a car that had a passenger and you then proceeded to run to the forums to brag that you pulled a little on him leaving out the fact that he had a passenger. This to me sounds less like fun and more like you have some insecurity issues or you are taking this whole thing way too serious and feel you have something to prove. Also you attacking the guy and putting words in his mouth show you are not taking this as "fun" but rather personal.

The fact that you do not understand that a passenger makes a big difference in a race like this shows you are not qualified to do any type of testing IMO. This is basic 101 stuff that everyone knows. To be faster than another car to the point that small variables are no longer a factor you would need a significant power difference between them. If you think your NA tune is making significantly more power than any other tune your are crazy and or naive. Best case scenario one NA tune might make 5-10 HP more than another. if you think this is going to allow you to overcome all the variables that exist between two cars and drivers you are wrong.

I have seen enough on this forum and others over the years to know that ESS has always been open and honest with their claims of power and how tuning on different platforms works. I have also seen many other vendors who change their story and or marketing strategy to sell based on hype. This is why ESS is the only vendor who is allowed to tune my BMW because in the end reputation and history does mean alot to me.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I think you selectively quoted me.

Which did not take anything away from your prior comments nor my criticism thereof.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by GJF

Use 1 car, buy both ESS and BPM tune for same car.

Dyno the car stock, whilst logging intake temp. Get several dyno runs to be sure to get an accurate baseline. Each run should be done whilst watching intake air temp, coolant temp and kept very close between runs.

Then run the first tune and do the same keep intake air temp and coolant close to the values of stock runs. Perhaps log Ign timing, Lambda and vanos to get a little idea of what is going on. DO 10 runs at least, keeping temps as consistent as possible.

This probably would not be any better. Dyno's are notoriously inaccurate, need correction factors, non-repeatable and vary by brand and type. That being said I strongly applaud your idea to do some averaging!

THE only way to settle this issue is through mathematics, like it or not, that is the way, specifically I mean through the use of statistics. My strong suspicion is that the conclusion from such an effort would be that the tunes simply are not statistically (i.e. meaningfully) different. That's pretty much a foregone conclusion for me anyway...

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by BuckRodgers

I think Uber finally realized what everyone else except you seem to understand and that is that comparing NA tunes in this manner is a waste of time unless you want to just do it for fun. You did a fun run VS a car that had a passenger and you then proceeded to run to the forums to brag that you pulled a little on him leaving out the fact that he had a passenger. This to me sounds less like fun and more like you have some insecurity issues or you are taking this whole thing way too serious and feel you have something to prove. Also you attacking the guy and putting words in his mouth show you are not taking this as "fun" but rather personal.

The fact that you do not understand that a passenger makes a big difference in a race like this shows you are not qualified to do any type of testing IMO. This is basic 101 stuff that everyone knows. To be faster than another car to the point that small variables are no longer a factor you would need a significant power difference between them. If you think your NA tune is making significantly more power than any other tune your are crazy and or naive. Best case scenario one NA tune might make 5-10 HP more than another. if you think this is going to allow you to overcome all the variables that exist between two cars and drivers you are wrong.

Sometimes half the truth is a lie they say.

STi trator was open to running again with no passengers in both cars and even my suggestion of taking UBER's passenger in his car to shift the weight. It seems that UBER still does not want to run even with the weight switched around, so your point about weight in this is a moot point.

You can speculate all you want. Let them run and then talk. He's not nitpicking and saying well, I'm on older DCT software, and my motor has 40K miles more and is older, the E92 is lighter, etc.. etc.. If you think the passenger is the huge difference in this, then lets say he's 180lbs. Sti had 70 lbs in his trunk, 22 lbs heavier car from being an E90, and UBER has weight savings of 31lbs with the Akra over the OEM exhaust. So taking all of this into account (180-70-22-31) = 57 lbs difference (plus there is probably a difference from UBER having heavier wheels)...

But seriously .. look at this. We can go through this all day long. There is NO point. Everyone just enjoy the tunes and that's it. If you want a better test, flash both cars back to stock, get a baseline, and go from there eliminating as many variables as possible. This is really turning into nonsense! Everyone likes to argue here, its incredible!

This isn't a scientific test so there is not reason to play it out to be.

and +2 to what swamp said, it's impossible to replicate performance in the real world accurately on a stationary dyno. Too many variables.

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by BuckRodgers

I think Uber finally realized what everyone else except you seem to understand and that is that comparing NA tunes in this manner is a waste of time unless you want to just do it for fun. You did a fun run VS a car that had a passenger and you then proceeded to run to the forums to brag that you pulled a little on him leaving out the fact that he had a passenger. This to me sounds less like fun and more like you have some insecurity issues or you are taking this whole thing way too serious and feel you have something to prove. Also you attacking the guy and putting words in his mouth show you are not taking this as "fun" but rather personal.

The fact that you do not understand that a passenger makes a big difference in a race like this shows you are not qualified to do any type of testing IMO. This is basic 101 stuff that everyone knows. To be faster than another car to the point that small variables are no longer a factor you would need a significant power difference between them. If you think your NA tune is making significantly more power than any other tune your are crazy and or naive. Best case scenario one NA tune might make 5-10 HP more than another. if you think this is going to allow you to overcome all the variables that exist between two cars and drivers you are wrong.

I have seen enough on this forum and others over the years to know that ESS has always been open and honest with their claims of power and how tuning on different platforms works. I have also seen many other vendors who change their story and or marketing strategy to sell based on hype. This is why ESS is the only vendor who is allowed to tune my BMW because in the end reputation and history does mean alot to me.

First of all there was no running to the forum and bragging about anything, UBER and I are friends and knew that this was coming. I was posting a quick video for everyone to see, UBER and I stated that. We were supposed to post another video of it but that will never happen now. I have no insecurities issues with UBER, myself or anyone else. I am just stating the facts and letting UBER and everyone else know that he bailed out the plan. This who passenger thing will be held on for dear life but in the end I had near the same amount of weight in my car. It wasn't a human but it was weight non the less. I am seriously over this thread! I have what I have and that is where it will stay. Enjoy your ESS tunes.

[UBER ///M3]

Originally Posted by BuckRodgers

I think Uber finally realized what everyone else except you seem to understand and that is that comparing NA tunes in this manner is a waste of time unless you want to just do it for fun. You did a fun run VS a car that had a passenger and you then proceeded to run to the forums to brag that you pulled a little on him leaving out the fact that he had a passenger. This to me sounds less like fun and more like you have some insecurity issues or you are taking this whole thing way too serious and feel you have something to prove. Also you attacking the guy and putting words in his mouth show you are not taking this as "fun" but rather personal.

The fact that you do not understand that a passenger makes a big difference in a race like this shows you are not qualified to do any type of testing IMO. This is basic 101 stuff that everyone knows. To be faster than another car to the point that small variables are no longer a factor you would need a significant power difference between them. If you think your NA tune is making significantly more power than any other tune your are crazy and or naive. Best case scenario one NA tune might make 5-10 HP more than another. if you think this is going to allow you to overcome all the variables that exist between two cars and drivers you are wrong.

I have seen enough on this forum and others over the years to know that ESS has always been open and honest with their claims of power and how tuning on different platforms works. I have also seen many other vendors who change their story and or marketing strategy to sell based on hype. This is why ESS is the only vendor who is allowed to tune my BMW because in the end reputation and history does mean alot to me.

exactly it doesnt make sense anymore and isnt fun which is why i was doing this, for the fun of it while i was NA...most tunes are the same its a personal preference...everyone enjoy your tunes im just blessed that im on my 2nd ///M3 at 28 and can even have this convo haha

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by UBER ///M3

i thought it was pulling hard and i was shifting premature and never thought so after, not once...IMO they are so even that shifting a few rms earlier or later will change the outcome..even as i rode with a 187 lbs person in my car..thats the whole reason why im backing out..this is so small of an issue to debate over that its not worth it to waste time...someone with money to burn buy 1 of each tune and settle this once and for all please and thank you...also its just a tune and test pipes not like a huge mod

Let's flash back to stock, have a full tank of gas, one person in each car, nothing in the trunk and go for the runs again. Lets get a baseline to see how the cars are stock head to head in D5 mode and then re-flash the tunes and see the difference. Come on buddy!

[UBER ///M3]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

Let's flash back to stock, have a full tank of gas, one person in each car, nothing in the trunk and go for the runs again. Lets get a baseline to see how the cars are stock head to head in D5 mode and then re-flash the tunes and see the difference. Come on buddy!

as ive stated before im not a part of this anymore, its too negative and seems like a marketing ploy, therefore im out...there are plenty of ESS tuned guys in the car club im in..im sure they will be down though

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by UBER ///M3

as ive stated before im not a part of this anymore, its too negative and seems like a marketing ploy, therefore im out...there are plenty of ESS tuned guys in the car club im in..im sure they will be down though

I don't understand why you are saying marketing ploy? What puts that into your head?

You stated that you would do this if it was "legit" by making it legit we flash stock, do runs, flash the tune and see the difference. You have the weight advantage of being an E92 with an Akro exhaust. That equals around 50-60 pounds on the advantage.

[UBER ///M3]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

I don't understand why you are saying marketing ploy? What puts that into your head?

You stated that you would do this if it was "legit" by making it legit we flash stock, do runs, flash the tune and see the difference. You have the weight advantage of being an E92 with an Akro exhaust. That equals around 50-60 pounds on the advantage.

im good bro..just find another tuned/test pipe ///M3 to finish this with..they are all over i was with about 25 of them yesterday..i just hate this thread turned negative and am moving on

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by UBER ///M3

im good bro..just find another tuned/test pipe ///M3 to finish this with..they are all over i was with about 25 of them yesterday..i just hate this thread turned negative and am moving on

You have made the excuses and I have come with options. You stated that if it was "legit" we would do it. I think the only thing that is negative here is you backing out after knowing what the outcome will be. The "variables" have been addressed and solutions have been presented. There is still a chance for us to compare the tunes evenly.

[Superfly_M3]

this pissing match has to stop at some point.

[UBER ///M3]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

You have made the excuses and I have come with options. You stated that if it was "legit" we would do it. I think the only thing that is negative here is you backing out after knowing what the outcome will be. The "variables" have been addressed and solutions have been presented. There is still a chance for us to compare the tunes evenly.

naw im good..i dont wanna be a part of false inaccurate claims the only legit way is one vehicle using the 2 tunes...its over let it go man until someone actually does it the proper way(instead of having a video attached with a passenger and try to discredit another company)...i have too much respect for each company to so such a silly thing, it started in fun and now far from it...im too OCD to go ahead doing it this way after doing my research and not have everything perfect...they are both great tunes and i doubt there's one tune that pulls on another without sacrificing reliability/engine life..thats why the tuners back their products...have fun with your tune and see you at The Ring

[UBER ///M3]

Originally Posted by Superfly_M3

this pissing match has to stop at some point.

yes my friend last post on this thread its too sour