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05-05-2009, 05:33 PM | #23 |
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Apparently, Lexus has a patent on a dual injector system – where most fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber, while a little is sprayed into the valve to “wash” it clean: “D-4S Direct Fuel Injection” Featuring two injectors per cylinder, D-4S (Direct-injection 4-stroke Superior version) is the latest evolution of Lexus’ direct fuel injection technology. One injector is installed in the combustion chamber, a second in the intake port. In this way the engine combines the strengths of both direct and port injection, ensuring optimum engine performance and efficiency. Torque is improved, while fuel consumption and emissions are reduced.
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05-05-2009, 10:53 PM | #24 | |
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I am surprised at your lack of knowledge on this issue. There is mounting evidence of carbon build up in numerous DFI engine configurations. I listed just the one source because the 4.2 litre is probably the closest match to the S65.
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05-05-2009, 11:55 PM | #25 | |
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There are two separate issues being discussed. The high sulfur issue keeps the manufacturers from implementing the high-fuel-efficiency lean-burn mode on the engine. It's used in Europe but not North America because of the sulfur issue. The second issue is that combustion byproducts in the crankcase - "blow-by" gas - is recycled into the intake and forms deposits on the valves. Better fuel and better engine oil can reduce it, but it's a design problem that plagues real-world DI engines. The Lexus system noted above washes the contamination off the valves and they stay clean. But, what's the point? You can't run lean-burn so there's no mileage benefit and now you have twice as many injectors. |
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05-06-2009, 10:08 AM | #26 |
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Excellent thread, from which I've learned a great deal!
After sifting through the info here, and in the Audi Forum, I'm awfully glad I let my RS4 go at 15K miles, in favor of the E93. The RS4 powerplant was certainly a wonderful engine, which spooled up much faster than the S65, and I only had one misfire and associated code during that period. But, I never had the opportunity to look inside the intake to see how much trouble was brewing for the future.
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05-06-2009, 12:28 PM | #27 | |
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05-06-2009, 01:21 PM | #28 | |
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All fuels are basically the same, this is true for the USA and it's only the additives that make them different. |
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05-06-2009, 01:50 PM | #29 | |
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Stations that purchase their base stocks from the same refinery get the same gasoline prior to additives. HOWEVER, there isn't just one refinery on the planet, nor in the British Isles, nor in California. I believe there are at least three refineries in just the SF bay area. Each uses it own proprietary processes to refine gasoline. I didn't even mention the variable quantities of alcohol added (up to 10%). So depending which station you purchase your gasoline from, you CAN get very different products. |
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05-06-2009, 03:03 PM | #30 | |
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However, from a practical standpoint, you're getting the same product whether it is BP, Shell, Exxon/Mobil, or whatever. Yes, each brand has its own proprietary additive packages added to each tanker load. If there are multiple refinery choices hooked to the pipelines supplying your area, that gasoline from the different refineries is all passed through the same set of supply pipelines, and is mixed in storage tanks where it waits for pickup by the distributors. You'd then be getting a mixture of multiple refineries or a product of a single refinery. Unless you move around a lot, you're probably getting the majority of your fuel from retailers relatively close to where you live. That means your gasoline is likely coming a single distribution center, serviced by one or more refineries, and if it is multiple, it is all mixed together.
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05-06-2009, 03:29 PM | #31 | |
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Your analysis of why BMW has not implemented DI in NA engines is spot on, they do not see the point in the US since there is no chance of lean burn. The N53 in the EU is a lean burn mode engine and has been successful. The reason for the DI in the FI engines escapes my mind at the moment...
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05-06-2009, 03:31 PM | #32 | |
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I do know for certain that in Northern Ireland the majority of brands over here draw out of the BP depot in Belfast, so this is why I have my opinion. |
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05-06-2009, 03:45 PM | #33 | |
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So, there aint a hell of a lot of difference in CA fuels, minus the additives.
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05-06-2009, 04:59 PM | #34 | |
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http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=13 My ignorance should not be all that surprising. I don't follow every topic on evey car despite being a keen advocate of the benefits of DI. |
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05-06-2009, 06:25 PM | #35 | |
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05-07-2009, 10:33 AM | #36 |
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OK, I got a series of silly qns. Whoever can spare some time to explain will be most appreciated:
1. Why and how can carbon residue form on the part of the valves (all valves I assume) which is outside of the combustion chamber? Is it due to leakages through the valve seats? 2. How come the cylinder head on the inside of the combustion chamber is clean? 3. Why is this an issue only with DI? If fuel (with additives) helps the case of non-DI because the fuel / air mixture is sprayed close to / on the intake valves and cleans them, then what happens in the case of the exhaust valves? Carbon residue should build there in DI and non-DI engines, or? Probably I have a simple issue awfully mixed up in my head... |
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05-07-2009, 10:56 AM | #37 | |
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05-07-2009, 12:05 PM | #38 | ||
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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05-07-2009, 12:11 PM | #39 | |
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I'm not sure how flogging a DI engine would prevent this build up? It's been shown on E90 boards already.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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05-08-2009, 05:38 AM | #40 | |
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I read above about this oil/air seperator which helps the case of DI. Where does this fit in? If air with some (escaping) oil is sucked in each stroke from the intake port, then I guess oil is sucked from the top of the cylinder head through the intake valves causing the residue build up on the valves. So where is this oil/air seperator fitted to avoid / minimise oil running through the intake valves? I guess it needs to be dumping the clean air as close as possible (i.e. just before) the intake valves, but then I wonder how is this possible without disturbing the smooth air flow... |
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05-10-2009, 02:19 AM | #41 | |
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The small amount of remaining contamination hits the back side of the intake valve and gets burned on from the heat of the valve itself. It takes many cycles to build up but that's what engines do - many cycles over thousands of miles. What's worse, as the buildup collects, it insulates the metal valve from the cool intake air rushing into the cylinder, causing it to run even hotter, turning the coating of oily residue into hard carbon. The after-market separator traps oil that got past the factory separator before it gets into the intake tract and that keeps it from collecting on the back of the valves. It doesn't solve the problem but it does slow it down a lot. |
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05-10-2009, 02:56 AM | #42 | |
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