Air Scoops

aremmell · 10-12-2009, 11:06 PM

Looking to get feedback from people who've actually purchased and installed air scoops.

I know there's one school of thought out there which pretty much regards them as junk science -- any positive air pressure build-up in the intake box created by the scoop would just blow out the hood.

Not sure I agree with this, as I think there could be circumstances under which the engine could have a pressure deficit, in which case, the scoop would be advantageous.

Please write about your experience with scoops - manufacturer aside. What did your butt dyno say? Was it only at n+ mph? What did the actual dyno say?

Is it placebo?

Thanks in advance!

nusevad · 10-12-2009, 11:20 PM

I got a generic set of scoops, cant say i feel any difference, but it does make a cool whirling sound!

LateBraking · 10-12-2009, 11:24 PM

Speaking just from my personal experience, on this car, yes, junk science.

But they look pretty cool. People pay $350.00 for carbon fiber side mirrors, so why not pay $100.00 to have a cool flash of red behind your kidney grilles?

But really, no, no differences. IMO, anyone who notices a difference is trying too hard. It's all mental.

Now, I know they are all the rage with M5 guys, and they've supposedly been proven to work for them, but M3=/=M5....

KMIII · 10-12-2009, 11:26 PM

Even if they are not advantageous power wise, they still look cool. Since they don't harm the engine in any way, they could be considered and aesthetic mod. The red ones that I have give a little "mean" looking accent.

Nawaaz · 10-12-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMIII

Even if they are not advantageous power wise, they still look cool. Since they don't harm the engine in any way, they could be considered and aesthetic mod. The red ones that I have give a little "mean" looking accent.

Yup.

Don't know if they make a difference or not, but I'm gonna have them installed because of how cool they look.

Eugene-TAIWAN · 10-12-2009, 11:31 PM

in theory it works. but do I need dyno figures NOPE! its 100 bucks. Don't need a dyno for me to spend that amount.

powertrip · 10-13-2009, 12:08 AM

I've got 'em, but can't tell the difference. Meh, it's a $100, so screw it

.

JCtx · 10-13-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powertrip

I've got 'em, but can't tell the difference.

That's because you're not looking at your oil temperature

.
Seriously, those things have zero performance benefits, but aren't you guys worried about reduced engine cooling capacity at speed? Not saying it's a fact, but looks like it.

TLud · 10-13-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

That's because you're not looking at your oil temperature

.
Seriously, those things have zero performance benefits, but aren't you guys worried about reduced engine cooling capacity at speed? Not saying it's a fact, but looks like it.

+1 This is exactly what I was worried about. The engine gets stupid hot as it is.

Otherwise, not much downside to $100.

Nawaaz · 10-13-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

That's because you're not looking at your oil temperature

.

Seriously, those things have zero performance benefits, but aren't you guys worried about reduced engine cooling capacity at speed? Not saying it's a fact, but looks like it.

hmmm.....I hope that's not true......Is it?

LateBraking · 10-13-2009, 01:25 AM

My temperature gauge hasn't been acting any differently from before install. It's not going to kill your engine. Can't be any worse than those people putting their license plates on their lower grille or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Don't know if they make a difference or not, but I'm gonna have them installed because of how cool they look.

Precisely the reason why I got them.

swamp2 · 10-13-2009, 02:44 AM

There has been some intense debate, some good discussion and even some good old fashioned nastiness on this topic. Use google to search the forum and you'll be able to find some of it. Just type a few search terms and add site:m3post.com. These are worth a read. Ultimately I do not believe scoops on an E9X M3 can offer any substantial proven gains in the real world.

powertrip · 10-13-2009, 02:55 AM

Hey JC, I haven't noticed a difference on my temp gauge, but it would be difficult distinguish 5-8 degrees on our gauge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

That's because you're not looking at your oil temperature

.
Seriously, those things have zero performance benefits, but aren't you guys worried about reduced engine cooling capacity at speed? Not saying it's a fact, but looks like it.

rsmamg · 10-13-2009, 03:20 AM

i cant even see my scoops behind my grill. kinda bummed. i was hoping at least it would look cool. i doubt anyone can see them by looking in their rearview mirrors when im driving behind them either.

Green///Hell · 10-13-2009, 03:36 AM

they looked cool when new but now that they are dirty they're whatever.

I'm going SC so I'll sell them to someone real cheap if they want them

J08M3 · 10-13-2009, 07:34 AM

The car comes from the factory with one giant scoop in the front... It's the lower opening on the bumper in front of the drivers side tire

But as others have said.... not really possible to put positive pressure in a box that has a giant hole in it... They are for looks only!

LateBraking · 10-13-2009, 12:18 PM

We need a fifth option on the poll: Scoops don't change performance, but they sure do look cool!

Or something like that.

C17MooseDriver · 10-13-2009, 12:21 PM

I've got them, no change in performance from what I can tell. Oil temp hasn't changed either.

TheKosherStogie · 10-13-2009, 12:34 PM

i went to rpi...and dyno'd my car first with eisen exhaust only, then with eisen and filter, then with eisen, filter and scoops and it showed a few hp gain (3 or 4hp). Now i was watching him dyno it..but seems like a legit guy.

SV Concepts III · 10-13-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyrusso

i went to rpi...and dyno'd my car first with eisen exhaust only, then with eisen and filter, then with eisen, filter and scoops and it showed a few hp gain (3 or 4hp). Now i was watching him dyno it..but seems like a legit guy.

I'm surprised to see gains from just the scoops on a dyno. The real gains would be at speed 40-50mph + and even with a high powered fan, it would be hard to emulate that on a dyno. This is typically why you have to take Dyno gains with a grain of salt, 3-4 HP measured on a Dyno can mean a lot of things.

jimmyeatsworld · 10-13-2009, 12:45 PM

Eloy from RPI developed the scoops, and did some extensive R&D on this product. Discussion has it that the scoops will be beneficial at higher speeds.

Mr. Harris', and Tightie's car were used for the R&D of the RPI scoops I believe.

J08M3 · 10-13-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyeatsworld

Eloy from RPI developed the scoops, and did some extensive R&D on this product. Discussion has it that the scoops will be beneficial at higher speeds.

Mr. Harris', and Tightie's car were used for the R&D of the RPI scoops I believe.

The funny thing about RPI's thread on the subject is they claim different amounts of power in different pages of the thread. Also the thread over and over asked for at least one person to do high speed runs and time them and collect data. Never once has this been done to prove any claims of high speed benefits.

View Poll Results: What's been your experience with scoops?
Scoops are not junk science, and I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a small performance gain	27	14.36%
Scoops are a waste of time and money.	50	26.60%
I've got them, but can't really say whether or not they were worth it.	47	25.00%
No experience with scoops -- I'm useless.	64	34.04%
Voters: 188. You may not vote on this poll

10-12-2009, 11:06 PM	#1
aremmell Second Lieutenant 120 Rep 230 Posts Drives: '24 M4 Comp xDrive Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Idaho iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 M4 Comp xDrive [9.00]	Air Scoops - Junk Science? Looking to get feedback from people who've actually purchased and installed air scoops. I know there's one school of thought out there which pretty much regards them as junk science -- any positive air pressure build-up in the intake box created by the scoop would just blow out the hood. Not sure I agree with this, as I think there could be circumstances under which the engine could have a pressure deficit, in which case, the scoop would be advantageous. Please write about your experience with scoops - manufacturer aside. What did your butt dyno say? Was it only at n+ mph? What did the actual dyno say? Is it placebo? Thanks in advance!
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10-12-2009, 11:20 PM	#2
nusevad O! So Sour!! 552 Rep 15,615 Posts Drives: Fast 240z / Slow M3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: 'Merica! iTrader: (24) Garage List 1971 Datsun 240z [0.00] 2008 M3 [9.60]	I got a generic set of scoops, cant say i feel any difference, but it does make a cool whirling sound! __________________
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10-12-2009, 11:24 PM	#3
LateBraking Brigadier General 326 Rep 3,882 Posts Drives: Relatively Quick. Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: U.S.A. iTrader: (27)	Speaking just from my personal experience, on this car, yes, junk science. But they look pretty cool. People pay $350.00 for carbon fiber side mirrors, so why not pay $100.00 to have a cool flash of red behind your kidney grilles? But really, no, no differences. IMO, anyone who notices a difference is trying too hard. It's all mental. Now, I know they are all the rage with M5 guys, and they've supposedly been proven to work for them, but M3=/=M5....
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10-12-2009, 11:26 PM	#4
KMIII ///M 61 Rep 403 Posts Drives: 08 M-DCT E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (1)	Even if they are not advantageous power wise, they still look cool. Since they don't harm the engine in any way, they could be considered and aesthetic mod. The red ones that I have give a little "mean" looking accent. __________________ 2008 BMW M3 e92 Space Grey/Silver Novillo // 20% tint // Hardwired V1 // Painted side reflectors // Matte black kidney grills // Matte black side gills // BMW Performance steering wheel // Match Schnell air filter // RPi Scoops // Gintani Race exhaust // 2010 Lamborghini LP560-4 Spyder
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10-12-2009, 11:31 PM	#6
Eugene-TAIWAN Brigadier General 249 Rep 3,157 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan iTrader: (4)	in theory it works. but do I need dyno figures NOPE! its 100 bucks. Don't need a dyno for me to spend that amount. __________________ Past: Gintani stage3 M3, Cayman GTS present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6,Macan Turbo,997GT2,930 turbo,i3, MINI JCW
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10-13-2009, 12:08 AM	#7
powertrip Scared money don't make money. 67 Rep 1,449 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2009 E92 M3 [0.00]	I've got 'em, but can't tell the difference. Meh, it's a $100, so screw it . __________________ 2009 E92 M3/DCT/Alpine White/Fox Red/Carbon Leather OE Tuned 402 whp & 303 wtq/Gintani X-pipe/MXP Axle Back/Rogue Pulley/AFE Stage 2/Cosmetics By IND & EAS HUGE THANKS: Gintani, OE Tuning, and EAS
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10-13-2009, 02:44 AM	#12
swamp2 Lieutenant General 609 Rep 10,407 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego, CA USA iTrader: (3)	There has been some intense debate, some good discussion and even some good old fashioned nastiness on this topic. Use google to search the forum and you'll be able to find some of it. Just type a few search terms and add site:m3post.com. These are worth a read. Ultimately I do not believe scoops on an E9X M3 can offer any substantial proven gains in the real world. __________________ E92 M3 \| Space Gray on Fox Red \| M-DCT \| CF Roof \| RAC RG63 Wheels \| Brembo 380mm BBK \| \| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust \| Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors \| \| Alekshop Back up Camera \| GP Thunders \| BMW Aluminum Pedals \| Elite Angels \| \| XPEL Full Front Wrap \| Hardwired V1 \| Interior Xenon Light Kit \|
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10-13-2009, 03:20 AM	#14
rsmamg Flying First Class 30 Rep 582 Posts Drives: M Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	i cant even see my scoops behind my grill. kinda bummed. i was hoping at least it would look cool. i doubt anyone can see them by looking in their rearview mirrors when im driving behind them either.
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10-13-2009, 03:36 AM	#15
Green///Hell Colonel 183 Rep 2,873 Posts Drives: 991 GT3, F15 X5, 1199S Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago iTrader: (5)	they looked cool when new but now that they are dirty they're whatever. I'm going SC so I'll sell them to someone real cheap if they want them
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10-13-2009, 07:34 AM	#16
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	The car comes from the factory with one giant scoop in the front... It's the lower opening on the bumper in front of the drivers side tire But as others have said.... not really possible to put positive pressure in a box that has a giant hole in it... They are for looks only! __________________
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10-13-2009, 12:18 PM	#17
LateBraking Brigadier General 326 Rep 3,882 Posts Drives: Relatively Quick. Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: U.S.A. iTrader: (27)	We need a fifth option on the poll: Scoops don't change performance, but they sure do look cool! Or something like that.
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10-13-2009, 12:21 PM	#18
C17MooseDriver Captain 20 Rep 878 Posts Drives: E92 AW M3 6MT Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX iTrader: (0)	I've got them, no change in performance from what I can tell. Oil temp hasn't changed either. __________________
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10-13-2009, 12:34 PM	#19
TheKosherStogie Lieutenant Colonel 342 Rep 1,805 Posts Drives: 08 M3 DCT AW/Red Join Date: May 2009 Location: West Hollywood iTrader: (1)	i went to rpi...and dyno'd my car first with eisen exhaust only, then with eisen and filter, then with eisen, filter and scoops and it showed a few hp gain (3 or 4hp). Now i was watching him dyno it..but seems like a legit guy. __________________ 17' M2 DCT - KW CS - Re71r - Carbotech BW C13 - 1:57:2 ACS - 1:49:6 WSIR - 1:30:6
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10-13-2009, 12:45 PM	#21
jimmyeatsworld Second Lieutenant 7 Rep 213 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 6MT Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Orange County iTrader: (0)	Eloy from RPI developed the scoops, and did some extensive R&D on this product. Discussion has it that the scoops will be beneficial at higher speeds. Mr. Harris', and Tightie's car were used for the R&D of the RPI scoops I believe. __________________ RPI GT Race Exhaust ~ RPI Scoops ~ BMC Air Filter ~ 19" BBS LM DBK ~ JL Motoring VRS Front Lip ~ Vorsteiner Diffuser Type I ~ KW Clubsports My RPI GT Race Dyno vs. Stock: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239228
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