Interview with Philipp Wänninger (on M3 ZCP Competition Package)

Eau Rouge · 05-11-2010, 10:32 PM

Even faster.
The BMW M3 with Competition Package.
11. Mai 10

BMW M is honing the BMW M3 profile with a new, optional Competition Package. Lowered by about ten millimetres and fitted with 9 x 19“ alloy front wheels and 10 x 19“ Y spoke rear wheels the new vehicles present not only a leaner look, but chassis electronics modified specifically for even greater optimisation of dynamic response in both longitudinal and transverse directions. For a balanced whole, the EDC, including a specially developed sports mode, is tweaked precisely to these chassis modifications by both the grid controller and the DSC.

The BMW M3 with Competition Package

How this works exactly is revealed to us by Philipp Wänninger, responsible at BMW M for chassis tests at the axles, steering, suspension, and damping systems and a crucial contributor to the tuning of the new Competition Package for the BMW M3. We asked how the electronic damper control EDC works and why the BMW M3 with Competition Package is even faster.

MPW: Mr. Wänninger, what is meant by EDC?

Wänninger: EDC stands for Electronic Damping Control. EDC offers the customer the choice between a number of different damping maps. Even in the BMW M3 E30 it was possible to choose between Comfort, Normal and Sport by means of a switch. In the current BMW M3 the principle was taken a step further: here the damping is not fixed at a set level in Comfort and Normal mode but is regulated to achieve an optimum level depending on the actual driving situation.

Philipp Wänninger

MPW: How does this regulation work?

Wänninger: The current driving situation is determined by means of numerous sensors. Three acceleration sensors measure the movement of the vehicle along the road. If a steering movement is made, there is an immediate impact on damping - and the same applies to acceleration and braking, too.

MPW: How is the damping influenced?

Wänninger: It is mainly the rebound which is adjusted by controlling the damper piston valve.

MPW: How is the EDC in the Competition Package different from that in the serial production vehicle?

Wänninger: In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level.

EDC button in the BMW M3.

MPW: How is this done? Is the BMW M3 faster due to the Competition Package?

Wänninger: Yes, the car is measurably faster. In addition to the special EDC set-up, this is also due to the increased width of the rims included in the Competition Package, which permit a larger contact area of the tyres in conjunction with optimum, constant pressure distribution. The lowered suspension at the front and rear axle not only provides visual benefits, it also drops the centre of gravity. The enhanced driving dynamics also meant that ABS and DSC had to be readjusted, too.

MPW: When should which mode be used?

Wänninger: If I were simply going from A to B, I personally would select the Comfort mode. If I were taking a run on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, which requires a lot of spring travel, I would select the Normal setting. If I were driving on an even track such as Hockenheimring or the Nürburgring Grand Prix circuit, the Sport mode would be my first choice. In any case the BMW M3 is a lot of fun - and it is now even faster with the Competition Package.

MPW: Thank you very much for the interview!

http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/edito...d=2086&lang=en

kaykay · 05-12-2010, 04:28 AM

Awesome! Can't wait for mine.

I wonder what he defines as "measurably faster" - of course fatter tires and a lower center of gravity improve performance, stability and handling so I think he's talking fractions of a second on a track.

It's very interesting to understand how EDC is constantly adjusting and damping the suspension during driving in all modes - I didn't know that Sport in the non-ZCP M3 was a fixed setting.

How many here drive in Comfort vs. Normal vs. Sport (the latter I feel is strictly for a flat, even, racetrack - can't wait to try that!)

Nice interview

03BeastCharmer · 05-12-2010, 08:42 AM

Nice information. The fixed setting for sport is an interesting difference for the standard M3. Wonder if the difference can be felt by 90% of drivers.

Black Stallon · 05-12-2010, 09:21 AM

I dont think the car is "Yes, the car is measurably faster" as quoted because of a suspension tune. It might handle better and feel faster at the butt dyno. But not as this guy believe it to be. Bogus marketing.

mkoesel · 05-12-2010, 10:26 AM

Maybe I have just been OTL but as far as I am aware this:

"In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level"

is completely new information. It makes the EDC changes a bit more significant than I had previously thought.

kaykay · 05-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stallon

I dont think the car is "Yes, the car is measurably faster" as quoted because of a suspension tune. It might handle better and feel faster at the butt dyno. But not as this guy believe it to be. Bogus marketing.

He didn't say it's measurably faster because of a "suspension tune" - read the interview again.

It's "measurably faster" [most likely around a track] because of a few elements such as a lower center of gravity [10mm lowering] and more rubber to the pavement [10 x 19"s], the suspension also has helps with a faster lap time, in any case there are three elements that make it the Competition Package not just a "tune"

Technic · 05-12-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Maybe I have just been OTL but as far as I am aware this:

"In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level"

is completely new information. It makes the EDC changes a bit more significant than I had previously thought.

Unless the ZCP EDC damping absolute limit (stiffness) somewhat has been raised over the non-ZCP EDC, what I see here is the ZCP Sport setting going from 75% to the full 100% instead of being static at 75% as previously reported. The same 100% that the Normal setting has been always capable of achieving but from a lower threashold than 75%.

Doctor J · 05-12-2010, 01:48 PM

Bogus marketing article.

M Power World · 05-12-2010, 07:08 PM

Faster means: some seconds faster per lap at the Nuerburgring Nordschleife.

(That's where all M cars are tested by BMW M).

BMW3R · 05-12-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaykay

Awesome! Can't wait for mine.

My 2011 E92 M3 is getting a clear bra, tint and window treatment right now. I am picking the car up tomorrow morning!

I will let you all know how it compares to my 2008 E90 M3 suspension wise.

mkPOTO · 05-12-2010, 07:13 PM

awesome i want one

bavarian19 · 05-12-2010, 08:18 PM

Oulixes · 05-12-2010, 09:11 PM

Marketing strikes again. The RDC information is interesting, though, since it demonstrates what software can do for cars that have real-time sensors incorporated. Even though the optimism about the EDC may be mostly due to the usual unmitigated optimism on the marketers, it is another parameter to play with.

conradb · 05-12-2010, 09:46 PM

I'm a bit confused here. He says the tires are wider in the competition package? I just looked up on the website and the width are front/rear 245/265 for competition pack and standard. He says the rims are wider, but then mentions more grip, when in fact the tires are no wider.

whaleboy · 05-12-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conradb

I'm a bit confused here. He says the tires are wider in the competition package? I just looked up on the website and the width are front/rear 245/265 for competition pack and standard. He says the rims are wider, but then mentions more grip, when in fact the tires are no wider.

I was about to mention the same thing... The rims are wider, but the tires are the same, so does that actually increase the contact patch? I wouldn't think so, it would just push each patch out a bit giving it a wider overall track, but the actual contact patches would be the same.

I think...

-David

DirtyJersey · 05-12-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleboy

I was about to mention the same thing... The rims are wider, but the tires are the same, so does that actually increase the contact patch? I wouldn't think so, it would just push each patch out a bit giving it a wider overall track, but the actual contact patches would be the same.

I think...

-David

I think this explains why the side profile on the ZCP tires I saw seemed to "slant" inward more compared to the 19" on the non-ZCPs. It looked a lot better to me as I've grown to really dislike the thickness of the stock side profiles. Its one thing I'm finding harder and harder to live with. And why I'm going down a size 265/30/19 with my next set.

advans · 05-12-2010, 11:30 PM

I ordered the my 2011 with the ZCP with no doubt, I asked a few guys with the E46 ZCPs, it's just that the wheels itself is worth that package deal!

e46e92love · 05-13-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Maybe I have just been OTL but as far as I am aware this:

"In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level"

is completely new information. It makes the EDC changes a bit more significant than I had previously thought.

No, you are 100% right and I thought the same thing when I read it. Brand new info, and very interesting....

Cheers,
e46e92

1cleanm6 · 05-13-2010, 12:30 AM

I would like to know more about this regulation..

BobsM3Coupe · 05-13-2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advans

I ordered the my 2011 with the ZCP with no doubt, I asked a few guys with the E46 ZCPs, it's just that the wheels itself is worth that package deal!

You do know that the ZCP 19" wheels are not forged. So they will weigh a bit more and will not be as strong as the non ZCP 19" optional wheels.

Bimmer-Bob · 05-13-2010, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stallon

I dont think the car is "Yes, the car is measurably faster" as quoted because of a suspension tune. It might handle better and feel faster at the butt dyno. But not as this guy believe it to be. Bogus marketing.

"Measurably faster" simply means the ZCP car completed a known distance in less time than the non-ZCP car. If it was even a single tenth of one second quicker, that's "measurably faster." Not unreasonable considering the drop and wider rubber.

Emil · 05-13-2010, 02:59 AM

When I went around the Nürburgring Nordschleife in the BMW Ring-Taxi, Philipp Wänniger was our driver. He is a very nice guy and his driving skills are simply outstanding!
It is good to know that the suspension of our car is developed and tested by such competent people.
I cannot say if the ZCP version really is faster, but if anyone could proof this, it should be Philip Wänninger in the first place.

05-11-2010, 10:32 PM	#1
Eau Rouge Major 140 Rep 1,242 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Florida's Emerald Coast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW E92 M3 [9.00]	Interview with Philipp Wänninger (on M3 ZCP Competition Package) Even faster. The BMW M3 with Competition Package. 11. Mai 10 BMW M is honing the BMW M3 profile with a new, optional Competition Package. Lowered by about ten millimetres and fitted with 9 x 19“ alloy front wheels and 10 x 19“ Y spoke rear wheels the new vehicles present not only a leaner look, but chassis electronics modified specifically for even greater optimisation of dynamic response in both longitudinal and transverse directions. For a balanced whole, the EDC, including a specially developed sports mode, is tweaked precisely to these chassis modifications by both the grid controller and the DSC. The BMW M3 with Competition Package How this works exactly is revealed to us by Philipp Wänninger, responsible at BMW M for chassis tests at the axles, steering, suspension, and damping systems and a crucial contributor to the tuning of the new Competition Package for the BMW M3. We asked how the electronic damper control EDC works and why the BMW M3 with Competition Package is even faster. MPW: Mr. Wänninger, what is meant by EDC? Wänninger: EDC stands for Electronic Damping Control. EDC offers the customer the choice between a number of different damping maps. Even in the BMW M3 E30 it was possible to choose between Comfort, Normal and Sport by means of a switch. In the current BMW M3 the principle was taken a step further: here the damping is not fixed at a set level in Comfort and Normal mode but is regulated to achieve an optimum level depending on the actual driving situation. Philipp Wänninger MPW: How does this regulation work? Wänninger: The current driving situation is determined by means of numerous sensors. Three acceleration sensors measure the movement of the vehicle along the road. If a steering movement is made, there is an immediate impact on damping - and the same applies to acceleration and braking, too. MPW: How is the damping influenced? Wänninger: It is mainly the rebound which is adjusted by controlling the damper piston valve. MPW: How is the EDC in the Competition Package different from that in the serial production vehicle? Wänninger: In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level. EDC button in the BMW M3. MPW: How is this done? Is the BMW M3 faster due to the Competition Package? Wänninger: Yes, the car is measurably faster. In addition to the special EDC set-up, this is also due to the increased width of the rims included in the Competition Package, which permit a larger contact area of the tyres in conjunction with optimum, constant pressure distribution. The lowered suspension at the front and rear axle not only provides visual benefits, it also drops the centre of gravity. The enhanced driving dynamics also meant that ABS and DSC had to be readjusted, too. MPW: When should which mode be used? Wänninger: If I were simply going from A to B, I personally would select the Comfort mode. If I were taking a run on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, which requires a lot of spring travel, I would select the Normal setting. If I were driving on an even track such as Hockenheimring or the Nürburgring Grand Prix circuit, the Sport mode would be my first choice. In any case the BMW M3 is a lot of fun - and it is now even faster with the Competition Package. MPW: Thank you very much for the interview! http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/edito...d=2086&lang=en Last edited by Eau Rouge; 05-12-2010 at 05:29 AM..
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05-12-2010, 04:28 AM	#2
kaykay Lieutenant Colonel 90 Rep 1,769 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E93 328i Conve ... [9.50] 2011 E92 M3 ZCP [8.66] 2008 550i Sport [10.00]	Awesome! Can't wait for mine. I wonder what he defines as "measurably faster" - of course fatter tires and a lower center of gravity improve performance, stability and handling so I think he's talking fractions of a second on a track. It's very interesting to understand how EDC is constantly adjusting and damping the suspension during driving in all modes - I didn't know that Sport in the non-ZCP M3 was a fixed setting. How many here drive in Comfort vs. Normal vs. Sport (the latter I feel is strictly for a flat, even, racetrack - can't wait to try that!) Nice interview __________________ '12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded '11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded '11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded '08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport
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05-12-2010, 08:42 AM	#3
03BeastCharmer Lieutenant Colonel 257 Rep 1,660 Posts Drives: '13 M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston iTrader: (3)	Nice information. The fixed setting for sport is an interesting difference for the standard M3. Wonder if the difference can be felt by 90% of drivers. __________________ Current: '13 E92 M3 Euro Delivery Gone: E86 M Coupe; E30 M3, E39 M5, E36 M3
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05-12-2010, 09:21 AM	#4
Black Stallon Quemando Carretera 3 Rep 62 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0)	I dont think the car is "Yes, the car is measurably faster" as quoted because of a suspension tune. It might handle better and feel faster at the butt dyno. But not as this guy believe it to be. Bogus marketing. __________________
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05-12-2010, 10:26 AM	#5
mkoesel Moderator 7510 Rep 19,370 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	Maybe I have just been OTL but as far as I am aware this: "In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level" is completely new information. It makes the EDC changes a bit more significant than I had previously thought.
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05-12-2010, 01:48 PM	#8
Doctor J Captain 33 Rep 741 Posts Drives: 2010 E93 M3 DCT Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vancouver BC iTrader: (0)	Bogus marketing article. __________________ 2010 BMW M3 vert with DCT & Akra (sold) 2012 Porsche 911 Turbo S Last edited by Doctor J; 05-12-2010 at 02:06 PM..
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05-12-2010, 07:08 PM	#9
M Power World http://www.m-power.com 6 Rep 8 Posts Drives: BMW M3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Faster Faster means: some seconds faster per lap at the Nuerburgring Nordschleife. (That's where all M cars are tested by BMW M).
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05-12-2010, 07:13 PM	#11
mkPOTO Mr. Nice Says Hello 636 Rep 16,662 Posts Drives: BMW M3 \| X5 xdrive 35i MSport Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (25) Garage List 2002 Lexus GS300 [0.00] 2008 BMW E92 M3 [5.58]	awesome i want one
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05-12-2010, 08:18 PM	#12
bavarian19 General 517 Rep 18,858 Posts Drives: Car Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: VA iTrader: (23)
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05-12-2010, 09:11 PM	#13
Oulixes Lieutenant Colonel 22 Rep 1,938 Posts Drives: 330xi, 335i Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Terra Borealis iTrader: (0)	Marketing strikes again. The RDC information is interesting, though, since it demonstrates what software can do for cars that have real-time sensors incorporated. Even though the optimism about the EDC may be mostly due to the usual unmitigated optimism on the marketers, it is another parameter to play with.
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05-12-2010, 09:46 PM	#14
conradb Lieutenant 73 Rep 493 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 (ZCP/DCT/ZCV) Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: GMT -8 iTrader: (0)	I'm a bit confused here. He says the tires are wider in the competition package? I just looked up on the website and the width are front/rear 245/265 for competition pack and standard. He says the rims are wider, but then mentions more grip, when in fact the tires are no wider.
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05-12-2010, 11:30 PM	#17
advans Advansolosis 218 Rep 1,448 Posts Drives: ///M+////AMG Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (1)	I ordered the my 2011 with the ZCP with no doubt, I asked a few guys with the E46 ZCPs, it's just that the wheels itself is worth that package deal! __________________ 2011 E90 M3, ESS VT2-650, 2015 GL550
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05-13-2010, 12:30 AM	#19
1cleanm6 Brigadier General 441 Rep 3,668 Posts Drives: M5 comp/Range/i3S Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (7)	I would like to know more about this regulation..
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05-13-2010, 02:59 AM	#22
Emil Private 2 Rep 64 Posts Drives: M3 E92 DCT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	When I went around the Nürburgring Nordschleife in the BMW Ring-Taxi, Philipp Wänniger was our driver. He is a very nice guy and his driving skills are simply outstanding! It is good to know that the suspension of our car is developed and tested by such competent people. I cannot say if the ZCP version really is faster, but if anyone could proof this, it should be Philip Wänninger in the first place.
	Appreciate 0 Quote