Question on Heel Toe

[HighandDry]

So, I'm no speedracer, but have been to the track a lot and been in numerous schools (Skippy, Porsche Driving Experience, etc).

I was driving with a friend of mine and he stated that I was doing heel toe wrong. The way I do it is to overrev and then to shift in the proper gear as the RPM's fall. For instance, say I'm in 4th, I'll brake, put in the clutch, blip the throttle to say 6K, and as it falls to 4K put it in 3rd.

My buddy says that you should match the blip precisely and slip it in gear. So, in 4th, blip to 4K, and slip it in.

Funny, I've driven with a lot of instructors and nobody ever mentioned my heel toe technique as being wrong (even drove with Hurley Haywood once!).

Does it matter? It seems that his method is probably better, but seems so much harder

[joe@trinityautosport]

I think more practice will make it perfect.

[HighandDry]

My question is wether the technique I use is "wrong" and if so why.

I guess that I never tried to match it perfectly with the blip.

[Porschefile]

I was always taught to let it drop very slightly before slipping into the gear, so you are off throttle when shifting, but a lot of that depends on how heavy the flywheel is etc.

If it is shifting smoothly (and therefore you're shifting at the right revs) don't pay attention to what your friends say.

[m3an]

yes that's totally wrong. The gear change should be perfect as the revs are "blipped" up. No more, no less. that's why its' difficult. Not only are you now shifting slower, anyone can blip the throttle and change gears as it falls. That's more lackluster driving reserved for the street

[FrenchBoy]

I am not sure your technique is "wrong" per say. I agree with Purple Derple that overrev'ing and then waiting for the "right" RPM is staying out of gear, i.e. coasting, for longer than necessary. Not using engine braking is also a factor but to a lesser extent I think.

The way I try to do it is wait for the right moment to shift:
- As you approach a corner, brake hard. I try to do all my braking and shifting before the actual turn in, or at least before the apex.
- As the car decelerates, the RPM goes down
- Right before you feel that you are ready for let go of the brakes, blip the throttle slightly past the optimum RPM for the gear you are going into (sometimes 2 gears down) and shift. I think it's better to be a bit over than under in terms of RPM so it doesn't upset the balance of the car.
- Smoothly start applying throttle

It's hard to put in writing the sequence of events as it all happens so fast but I think that's what I do. With that said, I don't think you're doing it wrong. You just may be leaving a little time on the table :-)

[Porschefile]

I misread OP, you shouldn't be dropping revs 2000 before engaging gear. I thought you meant a slight drop, like 100-200 rpm before engaging. Engaging the gear while the engine is still accelerating causes more wear than during a very short decel period like that.

[swhat]

In theory, that should be a problem besides excessive engine wear. Yes you lose engine braking, but at a track setting, your brakes are doing 99% of the braking.

[joe@trinityautosport]

Originally Posted by HighandDry

My question is wether the technique I use is "wrong" and if so why.

I guess that I never tried to match it perfectly with the blip.

I don't think you are doing it wrong...instead of pressing the gas "longer" try to blip it "less" not sure if that makes sense...

[CanAutM3]

I believe your friend is correct. In my opinion, you should aim to blip the throttle to get exactly the required RPM for the gear you are engaging. A few RPM up or down won't matter much, however 1000+RPM is way off.

If you wait for the RPM to drop, you are taking more time than necessary to complete the shift. Further, if you give it too much revs and let go of the clutch before the revs have dropped, you will upset the chassis.

[Car54]

Always catch the downshift on the fall of rpm, but you should only be blipping to just above the target RPM. Try just blipping less. Now that you know how to improve, practice!

Practice DOES NOT make perfect.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

[bigjae1976]

I try to let out the clutch before the revs fall. Its smoother and quicker. Especially if I'm downshifting and trailbraking...I need to get the drivline engaged so I don't float off into the abyss...

What can I say...the gearing is retarded on my 330.

[HighandDry]

Thanks guys! I guess I just always loved giving that big blip and hearing the engine roar

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by Car54

Always catch the downshift on the fall of rpm, but you should only be blipping to just above the target RPM. Try just blipping less. Now that you know how to improve, practice!

Practice DOES NOT make perfect.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

+1, that is what I was trying to say, but is worded much better!

[GTM_Challenge]

The most important thing is keeping the chassis balanced. Whatever works for you is the proper way. Don't over analyze - that's probably the worst thing you can do.

[Car54]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

The most important thing is keeping the chassis balanced. Whatever works for you is the proper way. Don't over analyze - that's probably the worst thing you can do.

Sure keep the chassis balanced but most non-proficient drivers will release brake pressure during the blip. Why stack the chips against you? Brake bad habits (err I mean break) as soon as you recognize them so driving faster is simpler/easier.

-> Porschefile

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Car54

Sure keep the chassis balanced but most non-proficient drivers will release brake pressure during the blip. Why stack the chips against you? Brake bad habits (err I mean break) as soon as you recognize them so driving faster is simpler/easier.

-> Porschefile

Well in that case, Id tell them to focus more on the driving at hand then banging out the prefect downshift. There are many very fast driver I know that don't heel/toe. Just saying...

[GTM_Challenge]

In all honesty, the hardest part to figure out what that the more you are slowing down, the more you need to blip the throttle. That and how you release the clutch are the two most important parts of heel/toe in my personal opinion.

[Car54]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

In all honesty, the hardest part to figure out what that the more you are slowing down, the more you need to blip the throttle. That and how you release the clutch are the two most important parts of heel/toe in my personal opinion.

Not if you get your braking done before trying to downshift...which you should be doing. Then the more you slow the car, the easier it will be to downshift, unless you're slowing it down to the top of 2nd gear...then it's a little tricky. Most turns are slowing into the middle of 3rd gear if a down shift is required.

As for releasing the clutch, if you can rev and time properly...you can side step the thing and it won't matter.

[Car54]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

Well in that case, Id tell them to focus more on the driving at hand then banging out the prefect downshift. There are many very fast driver I know that don't heel/toe. Just saying...

If they are driving a manual car or may drive one, then that's unfortunate. Not being great at is one thing, but not trying to improve (or develop) the skill is really sad.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Car54

If they are driving a manual car or may drive one, then that's unfortunate. Not being great at is one thing, but not trying to improve (or develop) the skill is really sad.

Except there are some professional race drivers that don't.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Car54

Not if you get your braking done before trying to downshift...which you should be doing. Then the more you slow the car, the easier it will be to downshift, unless you're slowing it down to the top of 2nd gear...then it's a little tricky. Most turns are slowing into the middle of 3rd gear if a down shift is required.

As for releasing the clutch, if you can rev and time properly...you can side step the thing and it won't matter.

Actually, you need to do both at the same time. if you get all your braking done first, then why worry about working on your technique to make sure you keep brake pedal pressure constant?

I'd beg to differ on the clutch release. You obviously know more than I do though, so carry on.

Here's a video of me in my S2000 though. 4 seconds under the class record, 1.5 seconds under the next class, and only .5 seconds off the class record two classes up from me. Heel toeing all the way