M3 Versus Evo FQ400

[991GT3]

If only the Evo were $15k less and available in the US then it might be a consideration.

check out the DR comparison

http://www.drivers-republic.com/

[330CIZHP]

Nice comparison.

I remember only an M3 CSL E46 could match laptimes with the older FQ400 Evo IX for the previous generation. But, by the looks of it, the new M3 has closed all the gap and it runs similar laptimes with the new Evo X FQ400 while having a lot more luxury and comfort.

Just goes to show how much the handling has improved on the new M3.

[chris719]

Mitsubishi screwed up badly on the new Evo, it weighs a lot more and didn't get the power bump to match. Also, the interior is sub par compared to a Mazda 3 other than the seats...

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by chris719

Mitsubishi screwed up badly on the new Evo, it weighs a lot more and didn't get the power bump to match. Also, the interior is sub par compared to a Mazda 3 other than the seats...

Werd. The new FQ400 still has 400 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque while the M3 got a big bump in power and handling, but not much weight increase.

That is why the new M3 is close in performance to the new FQ400 while the Evo IX FQ400 was hard to match for the E46 unless it was an M3 CSL.

[Nawaaz]

I used to have an Evo IX MR. I sold it so that I could get an M3.

The M3's NA engine is so much more pleasing than waiting for the turbo to get going in an Evo. Also, the M3 is a much more stable performance car.....Regardless if you compare it to the Evo IX or the X.

[Heat00]

that evo looks like fun... i agree its too close in price to the M3. It is impressive with it's 0-60 claim of 3.8.

[mixja]

Hard to believe there is a 5-Speed Manual in the EVO X....

Interesting they didn't use a 6-Speed Manual M3...

[chris719]

Yeah the 5 speed is a real turnoff. Their SST box is limited to a fairly low max torque as well, so there goes any ideas you had about getting huge power from the 4B11. Not only that, it only comes on the softer MR... It's a shame really because it could have been killer having a 6 speed manual MR with more power.

[kevinD]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

I used to have an Evo IX MR. I sold it so that I could get an M3.

The M3's NA engine is so much more pleasing than waiting for the turbo to get going in an Evo. Also, the M3 is a much more stable performance car.....Regardless if you compare it to the Evo IX or the X.

agreed that the turbo lag sometimes sucks. for the stock turbo is isn't bad though. for my car it is

although with the stable thing, i would disagree with you. unless you've taken your evo out to the track and driven it hard, you'll never know the capabilities of it. and the truth is, the evo is a track monster. steering is much more lively then the new M3 (although i haven't tracked the new m3 yet, only street driven it). the car can grip, and even if you oversteer a bit, just keep the foot on the gas and it will pull out of it. stability is definately something the evo doesn't lack.

Yeah the 5 speed is a real turnoff. Their SST box is limited to a fairly low max torque as well, so there goes any ideas you had about getting huge power from the 4B11. Not only that, it only comes on the softer MR... It's a shame really because it could have been killer having a 6 speed manual MR with more power.

the SST trannys are no longer limited. with open source tuning we have increased the torque limit and can run substantially more power then stock. and yes, you can get huge power from the 4b11.

the 6 speed manuals in the 8 and 9 were smoother, but they were also weaker. the 5 speed has been tried and tested and we know works well. although in the evo X 5 speed, the center diff in the tranny is weak this time.

the FQ400 is somewhat of a rip off. you can take a GSR or MR and make the same amount of power for a fraction of the price of the FQ upgrade. essentially you can take a GSR, and for 2,000 dollars it will have the same power as the FQ400 (and most likely more). it was the same way with the evo 8/9 FQ series.

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by kevinD

agreed that the turbo lag sometimes sucks. for the stock turbo is isn't bad though. for my car it is

although with the stable thing, i would disagree with you. unless you've taken your evo out to the track and driven it hard, you'll never know the capabilities of it. and the truth is, the evo is a track monster. steering is much more lively then the new M3 (although i haven't tracked the new m3 yet, only street driven it). the car can grip, and even if you oversteer a bit, just keep the foot on the gas and it will pull out of it. stability is definately something the evo doesn't lack.



the SST trannys are no longer limited. with open source tuning we have increased the torque limit and can run substantially more power then stock. and yes, you can get huge power from the 4b11.

the 6 speed manuals in the 8 and 9 were smoother, but they were also weaker. the 5 speed has been tried and tested and we know works well. although in the evo X 5 speed, the center diff in the tranny is weak this time.

the FQ400 is somewhat of a rip off. you can take a GSR or MR and make the same amount of power for a fraction of the price of the FQ upgrade. essentially you can take a GSR, and for 2,000 dollars it will have the same power as the FQ400 (and most likely more). it was the same way with the evo 8/9 FQ series.

The Evo is stable, but it feels more "flingable" or tossable......Which can be a good and a bad thing.

When I used to push the Evo through very tight turns on roads with small minor bumps.....It felt very "skidish", if you know what I mean...?... I'm pretty sure the heavier weight of the M3 makes it feel more planted or settled.....And that's what I'm trying to say.

I must admit though Kevin, I do miss the Evo somewhat and I wished I could've kept it as a weekend/track toy.

[meevo]

I still have my Evo IX, i LOVE the thing.. I agree about the FQ being a rip off though. You can attain that same kind of power with about 2 grand. The 400 is at the crank not to mention.. My car's producing about 380 to the wheel right now, roughly 450hp crank. The car handles great, the steering is like none other, and I can pull away from an r8 in every gear.

At the same rate, I think there's nothing like a well balanced rwd sports car.

[chris719]

I came really really close to buying a GSR... the main thing that swayed it for me was the seating position/feel of the cockpit. It just seemed huge compared to previous lancers and a bit detached maybe? I did love the seats though. Kind of wish the trunk had pass-thru as well instead of the AYC interfering.

[mixja]

Originally Posted by kevinD

agreed that the turbo lag sometimes sucks. for the stock turbo is isn't bad though. for my car it is

although with the stable thing, i would disagree with you. unless you've taken your evo out to the track and driven it hard, you'll never know the capabilities of it. and the truth is, the evo is a track monster. steering is much more lively then the new M3 (although i haven't tracked the new m3 yet, only street driven it). the car can grip, and even if you oversteer a bit, just keep the foot on the gas and it will pull out of it. stability is definately something the evo doesn't lack.




the SST trannys are no longer limited. with open source tuning we have increased the torque limit and can run substantially more power then stock. and yes, you can get huge power from the 4b11.

the 6 speed manuals in the 8 and 9 were smoother, but they were also weaker. the 5 speed has been tried and tested and we know works well. although in the evo X 5 speed, the center diff in the tranny is weak this time.

the FQ400 is somewhat of a rip off. you can take a GSR or MR and make the same amount of power for a fraction of the price of the FQ upgrade. essentially you can take a GSR, and for 2,000 dollars it will have the same power as the FQ400 (and most likely more). it was the same way with the evo 8/9 FQ series.

No excuses for Mitsubishi using a 5 speed - the STI 6 speed manual box easily handles 500HP and is rock solid...

[aznbenz07]

I've got to chime in here even if I'm a bit late. Being the resident X gsr guy of the forum, I must say that the 5 speed (although it lacks a 6th gear) is much better then the sst tranny. It is always ready to walk a competitor on the highway with its close gears. The other draw back of the car is it's weight, mine currently sits at and that's with a quarter of a tank of gas and a light weight battery from ams. Other then those two things It is a super stable/solid performance car. And I believe that you can compare it to bmw's m line, if you think about it in comparison to the IX you have more amenities like cruise control, smart key, Navigation with 40 hard drive dvd playback rockford fosgate system with subwoofer and a decent interior much better then the IX and way better then a mazda 3's. As for performance you do have a power bump from 271 to 291 which is underrated from factory, Brembo brakes and s-awd which includes the new ayc for the first time in the US. Mitsu really outdid themselves with the X and were not even talking about modding yet. With my first tune I was within a car length of 335's on the track, 335's are no slouch. Your talking about a 2.0 4cyl single turbo keeping up with a v6 twin turbo with just a tune. That's pretty impressive, and I was playing around with "best m3" on the parkway the other day and lets just say, the evo can hold it's own after modding comes into play.

chris719- It's not that the x is more detached then the IX it's just not as much of a rattle box. Mitsu's aim was to make the x more mature, better sound dampening with a smoother ride then the IX while still handling better. This is the best handling evo to date. Seats are amazing as well but yea i wish it had a pass through as well but not having aids in the cars balance and handling hence the rear mounted battery.

Nawaaz- It seems like your limited when you have a solid n/a m3 engine though, for instance my best friend has the 6.0 gto 04" and he would demolish me when I first got my evo x, he would run 12.5 and 12.4 at the track and I would run 13.4's he has an intake and exhaust now I've been modding and I run 12.8's in a short period of time I'll be a lot faster because I have many more options to go faster. It just seems limited when you have n/a with rwd, awd with an already boosted set up seems to have endless capabilities. By the way when we do rolls on the street I kill his gto now by 6 cars.

Any ways to sum up I drive a 2007 328xi as well and the evo feels tight like the steering of it but with the power of an m3, you can't go wrong imo but to each his own. I will say that the m3 just has a sexiness about it unlike any other car I've ever seen but I love my cars aggressive front facia, when you see me behind you you may get intimidated.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by kevinD

the FQ400 is somewhat of a rip off. you can take a GSR or MR and make the same amount of power for a fraction of the price of the FQ upgrade. essentially you can take a GSR, and for 2,000 dollars it will have the same power as the FQ400 (and most likely more). it was the same way with the evo 8/9 FQ series.

I think that's true of most (if not all) cars that are easily modifiable and also come with factory modded options. The big thing with buying the FQ versions is that they all come with the bhp AND the full factory warrantee. That can be invaluable in some people's eyes. I've always kept it to factory only during warrantee periods. I Just feel cosier knowing that I have 3 or 4 years of worry free motoring before I go mad on the mods. When I've wanted a car specifically for modding I've always bought used.

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by aznbenz07

I've got to chime in here even if I'm a bit late. Being the resident X gsr guy of the forum, I must say that the 5 speed (although it lacks a 6th gear) is much better then the sst tranny. It is always ready to walk a competitor on the highway with its close gears. The other draw back of the car is it's weight, mine currently sits at and that's with a quarter of a tank of gas and a light weight battery from ams. Other then those two things It is a super stable/solid performance car. And I believe that you can compare it to bmw's m line, if you think about it in comparison to the IX you have more amenities like cruise control, smart key, Navigation with 40 hard drive dvd playback rockford fosgate system with subwoofer and a decent interior much better then the IX and way better then a mazda 3's. As for performance you do have a power bump from 271 to 291 which is underrated from factory, Brembo brakes and s-awd which includes the new ayc for the first time in the US. Mitsu really outdid themselves with the X and were not even talking about modding yet. With my first tune I was within a car length of 335's on the track, 335's are no slouch. Your talking about a 2.0 4cyl single turbo keeping up with a v6 twin turbo with just a tune. That's pretty impressive, and I was playing around with "best m3" on the parkway the other day and lets just say, the evo can hold it's own after modding comes into play.

chris719- It's not that the x is more detached then the IX it's just not as much of a rattle box. Mitsu's aim was to make the x more mature, better sound dampening with a smoother ride then the IX while still handling better. This is the best handling evo to date. Seats are amazing as well but yea i wish it had a pass through as well but not having aids in the cars balance and handling hence the rear mounted battery.

Nawaaz- It seems like your limited when you have a solid n/a m3 engine though, for instance my best friend has the 6.0 gto 04" and he would demolish me when I first got my evo x, he would run 12.5 and 12.4 at the track and I would run 13.4's he has an intake and exhaust now I've been modding and I run 12.8's in a short period of time I'll be a lot faster because I have many more options to go faster. It just seems limited when you have n/a with rwd, awd with an already boosted set up seems to have endless capabilities. By the way when we do rolls on the street I kill his gto now by 6 cars.

Any ways to sum up I drive a 2007 328xi as well and the evo feels tight like the steering of it but with the power of an m3, you can't go wrong imo but to each his own. I will say that the m3 just has a sexiness about it unlike any other car I've ever seen but I love my cars aggressive front facia, when you see me behind you you may get intimidated.

You're right in the fact that turbo engines have more potential than NA engines, especially when it comes to modding.

Yet there are positives and negatives for both engine types. Neither is better than the other, and it's just different ways of making power. I admit, that I do feel jealousy of the power gains that come after simple mods on a turbo car.

But hey, I'm not gonna complain about a 70+ hp gain after I get my mods on. It's not much to brag about.....But I'm sure I will feel a very big difference afterwards.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

You're right in the fact that turbo engines have more potential than NA engines, especially when it comes to modding.

Yet there are positives and negatives for both engine types. Neither is better than the other, and it's just different ways of making power. I admit, that I do feel jealousy of the power gains that come after simple mods on a turbo car.

But hey, I'm not gonna complain about a 70+ hp gain after I get my mods on. It's not much to brag about.....But I'm sure I will feel a very big difference afterwards.

70+? What are you getting done. Do tell...

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

70+? What are you getting done. Do tell...

Everything on my sig. It's proven to be around 70-80 hp with what I'll be going with.

Just in case you don't believe it, I'll provide a link to the thread where a few members have already done it and proved it.

Here it is: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=294228&page=2

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Everything on my sig. It's proven to be around 70-80 hp with what I'll be going with.

Just in case you don't believe it, I'll provide a link to the thread where a few members have already done it and proved it.

Here it is: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=294228&page=2

Why wouldn't I believe it?

Any time frame on the jobs?

[mixja]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Everything on my sig. It's proven to be around 70-80 hp with what I'll be going with.

Just in case you don't believe it, I'll provide a link to the thread where a few members have already done it and proved it.

Here it is: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=294228&page=2

Hmmm - only problem with this example is it seems the M3 in this case was severely underpowered in stock form making only 315WHP. Sure the gains are very impressive, but certainly don't seem 'typical'. At the other end of the scale, you have owners complaining they only make 340WHP with flash, exhaust etc (the problem however in many of these examples is there is no baseline dyno like there is in this instance). I think the big difference in this example is the custom tune, which if I read correctly added 25WHP

If you add 15% to the final result of 380WHP, you are at around 450HP.

If you think your car is going to make 480-490HP, you're going to need be around the 420WHP territory (i.e. M5/M6 territory), I don't care what dyno. I don't think anybody has done that on the stock engine without more displacement or forced induction.

It might be possible to reliably and consistently make 480-490CHP with supporting mods on race gas with a tune specifically for race gas - but I think it is a pipe dream for those running pump gas. I honestly believe the most you will get out of this car with standard mods on pump gas is 450-460CHP (i.e. 40-50HP gains).

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by mixja

Hmmm - only problem with this example is it seems the M3 in this case was severely underpowered in stock form making only 315WHP. Sure the gains are very impressive, but certainly don't seem 'typical'. At the other end of the scale, you have owners complaining they only make 340WHP with flash, exhaust etc (the problem however in many of these examples is there is no baseline dyno like there is in this instance). I think the big difference in this example is the custom tune, which if I read correctly added 25WHP

If you add 15% to the final result of 380WHP, you are at around 450HP.

If you think your car is going to make 480-490HP, you're going to need be around the 420WHP territory (i.e. M5/M6 territory), I don't care what dyno. I don't think anybody has done that on the stock engine without more displacement or forced induction.

It might be possible to reliably and consistently make 480-490CHP with supporting mods on race gas with a tune specifically for race gas - but I think it is a pipe dream for those running pump gas. I honestly believe the most you will get out of this car with standard mods on pump gas is 450-460CHP (i.e. 40-50HP gains).

I may be right, I may be wrong. I'll face the truth after my dyno.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

I may be right, I may be wrong. I'll face the truth after my dyno.

Good luck man! Are you planning on doing a stock baseline? Do remember to put big fans in front of the car to get optimum airflow going since S65 engine cuts back on power bigtime if it does not get enough airflow at high rpms.

That is the best explanation of why S65 sometimes dynos at 315 wheel HP and othe times as high as 355 - 360 wheel HP.

I am sure once they make some race headers and cold air intake, it will be possible to get 400+ wheel HP out of S65.