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07-25-2012, 08:12 PM | #45 |
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You're aware that they won't let you out on the track by yourself. You have to do the HPDE events where an instructor sits in with you to teach you lines. You'll have plenty of room and time in the novice group.
Generally crashes you see and hear are mostly from the guys running with no instructors in the advanced group. They're more audacious and generally more aggressive. |
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07-25-2012, 09:25 PM | #46 | |
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Just to offer a different perspective, I'm coming up on my 12th event this weekend, and I've seen only 2 incidents. Both were in advanced run groups -- one at Road America, the other Homestead Miami. In both cases, walls in close proximity to the track were partially to blame.
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07-25-2012, 09:32 PM | #47 |
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I've ran 25-30 events and only witnessesed 3 accidents, and only 1 totaled car IIRC. Plenty of mis-shifting an blowing motors and rods and stuff though from civics and miatas and the like. I agree with the earlier comment, if there's that many major incidents then there is something seriously wrong with the organizers. Or maybe people get a false of security running with BMWCCA and push far past their limits. I unno what it is, but that should not be the norm, and people should seek out other organizers, tracks, or get some serious driver education an keep their egos in check. Ego is HUGE when it comes to track safety for everyone IMO. iPhone sorry or spelling.
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07-25-2012, 10:36 PM | #48 |
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I see a lot of incidents as well. Most are minor offs with little damage but I would say an average of one big incident each time I've been out including 3 on my first day out. Spooked me a little. I have had 2 offs myself, one due to bad brake fade and one a tail happy car dropping a wheel resulting in a hub bent wheel. Also a couple near spins with dsc off in the rain. Most bigger incidents tend to be pro 3 cars it seems. Overall I still feel it is very safe and much more controlled environment than the street and don't even bother anywhere but the track.
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07-25-2012, 10:41 PM | #49 |
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Man, where the hell do you guys go tracking, at the Nordschleife? It's incredible how dangerous and uncontrolled your track environments are. I'm glad I've done everything with Speed Ventures, Speed District, and Buttonwillow's own HDPE school. Southern California is an excellent environment to do this in as far as I've experienced. But I'm scared to go tracking in like, Florida or something, due to fear that there will be no organization or control, and it'll be like the wild west or something, and nothing but bedlam.
Edit: I know of one SoCal track organizer that just seems to have incidents every time, but they're also one of the top 3 cheapest organizers that I know. Pay to play. Last edited by LateBraking; 07-25-2012 at 11:27 PM.. |
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07-25-2012, 10:41 PM | #50 | |
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07-25-2012, 11:47 PM | #51 | |
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Were they mostly in the advanced groups? In D and C, you're barely getting up to speed. Group A guys can be really fast. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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07-25-2012, 11:52 PM | #52 |
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Guess BMWCCA track events isn't all that it's hyped up to be? I hear Porsche's club is actually fantastic, and you don't need to be a Porsche owner to attend either.
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07-25-2012, 11:56 PM | #53 | |
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Now, I am a novice driver and I'm fully concious of that fact; therefore, I don't push "my" limits. I don't go there to race anyone, just to have some fun with my car. I've had a couple scary moments, but nothing close to being serious. OP, track your car, you'll have a blast. Just make sure you understand your limits and don't try to keep up with the rest; some people have been doing this for a long time and know what they're doing. I have had Civics and Integras run past me on the track, but I knew they knew the track inside out (you could tell). Well, good luck and enjoy your M for what it was meant to do outside the streets! |
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07-26-2012, 12:00 AM | #54 | |
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07-26-2012, 12:40 AM | #55 | |
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You can run non Porsche cars with Porsche Owners Club but in Cali, you need to own one to join PCA. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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07-26-2012, 12:45 AM | #56 |
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I love the track. I'm lucky enough to live about 90 minutes from the Nurburgring in Germany. And most days they have time for anyone with a valid driver's license and a car to get on and drive. I think it is much safer and you are in a more controlled environment (less variables ie oncoming traffic, pedestrians, etc)
There are motorcycles and other drivers (sometimes crazy ones) on the track at the same time. But remember, "You don't have to drive super fast to thrill others, just fast enough to thrill yourself." After all, if you get into an accident its you who will have to deal with it. |
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07-26-2012, 09:28 AM | #57 |
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I am just starting out so I run in the novice group with BMWCCA at LImerock. Novice drivers are always accompanied by instructors. I have seen only one incident where an E46 m3 went a bit hard through the esses and ended up 30 yards out in the grass.
Also, with the CCA when you are not on the track you are in the classroom talking about braking, weight transfer, etc. not sure if anyone has mentioned that yet. It's very involved and the classroom helps a lot because you get to discuss what you felt on the track. It just makes you a safer driver overall because you start to learn the limits of the car. Now I have driven no where near the limits as a novice. I haven't even driven with DSC full off yet. But like others have said, check your ego at the door and it's a great time. |
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07-26-2012, 09:46 AM | #58 |
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Yeah well I waived a VW Passat wagon through. I made a smart remark to my instructor that we were just overtaken by a wagon. He said "it's modified - just concentrate on your line!"
Edit: my point is you definitely have to check the ego. |
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07-26-2012, 11:19 AM | #59 |
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That's very relieving to hear. I'll probably stay away from Illinois track days but at least the CA chapter is all right.
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07-26-2012, 11:38 AM | #60 |
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Pretty sure OP got out of here when he saw how many people track their cars. At the end of the day, don't do stupid things on a public road. Not so much for the safety of you, but for the safety of others around you. Spend $300 and get on the track. Beside the point but if you are driving an e9X M3, you should have some extra cash to spend on a track day.
Off topic but I live in your city and there are no excuses about not going out there. We have ~4 good tracks within driving distance that are safe with no walls so driving off the side is pretty safe. Come out to a track day sometime and have a blast. |
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07-26-2012, 12:13 PM | #61 | |
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07-26-2012, 12:14 PM | #62 |
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I don't know how it is in other countries, but here insurance is not working on tracks.
Well there are also cases, where something happens to the car on the track, then they take the car out, take the picture, and apply to insurance
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07-26-2012, 12:37 PM | #63 | |
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iPhone sorry spelling. |
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07-26-2012, 12:41 PM | #64 | |
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Well I consider the insurance as "mafia that gives you invoice" and we can't buy track insurances as far as I know we can only buy "international insurance" say in case of joining the m fest
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07-26-2012, 12:58 PM | #65 | |
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Yes, shit does happen, and yes, many of them probably were preventable, but they still happenened. At my most recent BMWCCA event this spring, someone put their pretty new 335i into the armco, probably 5-10k in damages. I already mentioned the 2010 ofest experience. I recall maybe 5 years ago an instructor flipping or almost flipping his students Z06 at RA, probably totalling it. I wasn't at the event, but maybe 5 or so years ago someone flipped and totalled their Mini at either Gingerman or Grattan after a bad brake failure. Probably 4 years ago, a student in my run group put his Corvette into the wall after a brake failure. A recent instructor I had mentioned spinning in the rain at Grattan and hitting the wall pretty good. So yes, I've seen or heard about plenty of incidents, enough to realize that while it's quite safe from a injury perspective, hitting walls has in my experience been a not uncommon occurence.
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