|
|
10-12-2013, 02:33 PM | #1 |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Clubsport guys need input Street & Track.
Just got my KW clubsports delivered and will be installing on tuesday.
Im looking for a good starting point for street & track alignment that works well with the M3 and i am open to suggestions. I also wanted to know what you guys are running for bump and rebound? I will be running a square 275 setup at the track btw. The car is driven on the street but its not my daily driver, i want to start with an alignment setting that wont be so hard on the street setup and not be terribly bad for side wear on the track setup, basically a good intermediate point and i thought you guys might have some suggestions. Thanks in advance
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
|
10-13-2013, 11:29 PM | #2 |
Admiral
930
Rep 3,886
Posts |
I would recommend around -3 degrees up front and -2 degrees rear.
Good luck!
__________________
2020 FORD RAPTOR 2014 F15 X5 | M-SPORT SOLD 2011 SG E90 M3 | 2008 AW E90 M3 | 2004 E46 M3 |
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 12:48 AM | #3 |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Thanks for the reply man. That setup sounds aggressive, how bad is tire wear on the street with that setup?
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
Last edited by track_warrior; 10-14-2013 at 03:31 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 10:34 AM | #4 |
Admiral
930
Rep 3,886
Posts |
Tire wear is more affected by toe, not camber. Common misconception.
__________________
2020 FORD RAPTOR 2014 F15 X5 | M-SPORT SOLD 2011 SG E90 M3 | 2008 AW E90 M3 | 2004 E46 M3 |
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 12:49 PM | #5 | ||
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
719
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Multiple days of track testing with different pyrometers, shows that -2.6* of camber up front and -1.8* of camber out back is what the car prefers the most with a 275 square tire setup and the best way to optimize contact patch. This will of course change and vary with different tire setups (square vs. non square). But based on your question on what the car does best with on a 275 square setup my recommendation would be the following for you: FRONT: -2.6* Camber per side 1/64" Toe IN per side REAR: -1.8* Camber per side I cannot make a rear toe recommendation for you as I do not know the vehicle ride height. This will vary depending on height setup as the height selected will affect rear geometry and different settings will have to be applied.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
||
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 02:00 PM | #6 | |
Captain
248
Rep 632
Posts |
Quote:
However with -2.6 camber up front and 0 toe, my inside tires are wearing fairly quickly and have to get them flipped 7K miles. So budget for a set of fronts and rears at the same time (assuming you are flipping the fronts too). Malek, to get more rear end grip especially on high speed sweepers, would you recommend square or staggered with something like 295s at the back? Cheers, Lutfy |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 04:32 PM | #7 | |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 06:23 PM | #8 | |
Major General
2733
Rep 6,732
Posts
Drives: 'E46 M3 Race Car, '23 X7
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wisconsin - Instagram - @slicer_m
|
Quote:
__________________
'23 X7
'04 M3 - Fall Line Motorsports Built Race Car - S65 swap, Dry Sump, Bosch Stand-Alone ECU, Drenth Sequential Trans, MCS 3-Way, Flossmann Wide Body, Brembo Motorsports Brakes, Drexler LSD, BBS E88 Etc. INSTAGRAM - @Slicer_M |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 07:04 PM | #9 | ||
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
719
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
I do not like running 295 rubber on the back of the E9x platform because in order to achieve such a width in the back, a relatively conservative offset has to be used. When the rear offset is overly conservative with respect to the front, what happens is that the overall balance is disturbed. The reason for this is because the E9x M3 naturally has a square track width front to rear. When the very wide wheel/tire setups are implemented out back, the overall track width ends up becoming trapezoidal and not square, meaning the front end has more overall width with respect to the rear, and the rear end does not feel right any longer and in fact can begin to feel unstable. This is one of the main reasons why BMW remained with 285/30/19 tires on the M3 GTS on the 359M wheels. The car does very well with 265/275 front and a 285 rear. I have had good success with 275 square as well, but it takes a lot to get used to because the car tends to rotate much easier and the back can step out. Quote:
Thanks Brett. Can't wait for the next event.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
||
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2013, 07:17 PM | #10 | |
***Major MammelToe
157
Rep 1,139
Posts |
Quote:
For the Bump and Rebound settings I had tested several settings. For street I use 7F/7R bump and 8F/12R rebound. For the street I noticed when I had bump to hard i would skip or walk sideways after hitting a bump in the road while turning a corner. I will be hitting the track saturday and I will tighten it up a little. Probably bump 5F/5R and compression 6F/9R.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2013, 02:09 PM | #11 | |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2013, 02:20 PM | #12 |
***Major MammelToe
157
Rep 1,139
Posts |
Clicks start from full lock, I believe full counter clockwise. then turn clockwise to to soften it up. Its in the manual.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-20-2013, 03:14 PM | #13 | |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
Im surprised how well these coilovers ride on the street and on the track, i spoke to kw and they recommended i not mess with the settings, since they test at the ring and my local track is also bumpy i decided to leave the shock settings as they came from the factory and it works perfectly. Its a stiff ride but not jaw breaking, i actually think it rides much better than the stock suspension on eibach's. Some pics of the Coilovers and install, DBC Tuning in San Antonio did an awesome job with the alignment and install. Some pics of the install and the track:
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2013, 02:42 PM | #14 |
Supreme Allied Commander
3779
Rep 54,170
Posts
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com
|
Good information from Malek. I have never run more than -1.8* in the rear on my 335; it compromises traction under hard loaded acceleration and unnecessary tire wear. In terms of the front, I have always maxed out my camber regardless of street/track. I do not have a dedicated track wheel/tire setup and go through tires fairly frequently (although they are RS3 and relatively cheap). Per street I would run around 2.5 or so. Per track, I don't know why or how Malek determined -2.6* would be ideal for a certain setup. Perhaps he can chim in with how he determined such information (not saying it's wrong just interested). I have, and will always, run max camber (up front) at the track, which is around -3.3*.
-Mike |
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2013, 04:42 PM | #15 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
719
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
As said in the original post, wheel widths and offsets will affect this because contact patch is affected through these 2 parameters. If a 10" wide front wheel is being used with the typical 20-25mm offsets, the camber angle previously specified with those toe values yield optimal tire temperatures. As you know, suspension tuning is not a one size fits all approach. I agree with you on the -1.8* on the rear end. Anything more is not necessary and only reduces traction and stability.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-24-2013, 04:48 PM | #16 | |
Supreme Allied Commander
3779
Rep 54,170
Posts
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com
|
Quote:
-Mike |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-26-2013, 09:44 AM | #17 |
Nüburgring Nordschleife BTG 8:05
49
Rep 826
Posts |
Great information! Thanks
__________________
ESS V2 Tune, ACM Test Pipes, AA Green Filter,Custom painted Recaro Pole Positions, Akrapovic slip on, Stoptech ST60/ Pagid pads, KW Clubsports, APEX ARC8s/Pilot Sport Cups, Hamann carbon fiber hood, ONEighty Headlight mod (selfmade), CRT lip with splitters, Blacked out/paint matched emblems, black aluminum extended paddles and pedals
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-26-2013, 12:45 PM | #18 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
719
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
Absolutely!
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-27-2013, 01:49 PM | #19 |
Private
24
Rep 94
Posts |
So even though these are twintube are the KW clubsports holding up to aggressive track use without overheating. Looking at purchasing a set next week or the Pss10s.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-28-2013, 01:03 PM | #20 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
719
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
You can think of it like this as well.. The Brembo GT kit BBK is a trackable street kit, whereas the GTR kit is a streetable track BBK. Makes sense?
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2013, 05:11 PM | #21 | |
Captain
98
Rep 728
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|