7-speed M-DCT Debut in M3!

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see how great or how big of difference MDCT makes...

Jason

The MDCT gives another 0.5 seconds for acceleration, time needed to shift a manual box.

More significant is if the MDCT gives a 7 gears instead of 6. It it is 7 gears, the MDCT will walk the 6MT M3 from the word go.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Technic

I don't think that it is difficult at all to expect the M-DCT to be faster than the manual the same way the VW DSG is faster than its manual counterpart. After all, the combination of a high rev V8 with decent torque and gears pre-selected (cutting gear change times at least 90%) while keeping those revs in the sweet spot (no need to depress the gas pedal to get a smooth gear change as opposed to the SMG) should be enough to cut at least .2 seconds of any comparable performance time vs. the manual. And that is not even counting on all the ECU tricks that can be better integrated with the M-DCT than can't be possible with the manual.

If Porsche can accomplish that with a fully automatic transmission in the Turbo, BMW should not have any problem achieving the same performance advantage over the manual.

I agree that M-DCT will most likely technically shift faster than a skilled manual driver. My point is, so what? Will that 0.2s difference impact your everyday driving? It won't mine. Even when I track it, it won't make a difference since I would track it for fun, not for racing. So, if I order it, it will be for other reasons...

[southlight]

Originally Posted by kishg

i'll join the IB-MT club. no M-DCT for me, i'll row my own gears.

Welcome to the club!

Best regards, south

[JEllis]

Well, originally I would have said 6MT is fine for me...

However, I can be swayed in my decision...

The real question now if the firs batch of US bound cars can be ordered with MDCT. If so then maybe I will take the plunge. If not then I dont have much of choice as I have a spring allocation and porbably wont be able to delay my purchase (Military Sales).

I guess the rumor is that the US launch and MDCT launch will happen at the same time...

Here is hopeing for a 57K MSRP and MDCT launch in spring!

Jason

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Here is hopeing for a 57K MSRP and MDCT launch in spring!

That seems even more likely now that we have a coroborating story from Autoblog (et. al.) that the M3 sedan will show up in Detroit or LA sporting the M-DCT box. Doesn't mean for sure it will be there in March for the first US cars, no. But it's at least looking like a good possibility...

[lucid]

If they intend to ship cars with DCT in March, it is reasonable to assume they will have a press release on DCT sometime in January at the latest. One would also imagine the press will get to drive DCT cars before March.

[T Bone]

Amazing if true that MDCT will be an option right away for the US market.

I expected less from the marketing geniuses who gave us the horrible 6MT for the M5 / M6 cuz Americans want it. They are collecting dust on dealer lots.

[OzStriker]

I thought the whole idea behind manual was for the US market, as was most of the philosphy behing the M3 being more of a tourer.
There are numerous quotes out there stating this.

It would therefore seem unlikely to aim the M-DCT to occur with the US release, unless of course the system just happens to be ready for production at that time.

[OZ!M3]

Originally Posted by lucid

I agree that M-DCT will most likely technically shift faster than a skilled manual driver. My point is, so what? Will that 0.2s difference impact your everyday driving? It won't mine. Even when I track it, it won't make a difference since I would track it for fun, not for racing. So, if I order it, it will be for other reasons...

+1

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by lucid

I agree that M-DCT will most likely technically shift faster than a skilled manual driver. My point is, so what? Will that 0.2s difference impact your everyday driving? It won't mine. Even when I track it, it won't make a difference since I would track it for fun, not for racing. So, if I order it, it will be for other reasons...

Totally true--this is not a race car, except for the .01% who make it one. These are the other potential positives that I can see for M-DCT:

• Manual is reportedly not the best--notchy, clunky, slow. Based on my E46 M3 experience, this is likely.
• DCT theoretically allows better than SMG Auto mode for those of us with spouses who don't like manuals and those dealing with congested commutes.
• Inadvertent skipped downshifts ("money shifts") will not be possible, especially important on the track when you might be in a hurry.
• Avoids possibility of BMW accusing you of overrevs if you have engine problems. This was something that BMW did when the first S54 engines started imploding.
• Seven speeds allows for closer ratios.
• It's the future. If we had never had a manual clutch, I don't think anyone would miss it and ask for one. I'm 59 years old and grew up with clutches. I've never had anything else in my sport cars (SUVs excepted). I'm ready to give it a shot.
  
  On the downside:
• Less driver involvement.
• At 79 kg, it is probably 25 or so heavier than the manual.
• More expensive things to go wrong, expecially after warranty expiration.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JEllis

...I have a spring allocation and porbably wont be able to delay my purchase (Military Sales).

Is it a policy with Military sales to not allow passing on your allocation until the car with the options you want becomes available? This is typically how most allocations work and seems like the most reasonable way to conduct business.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Totally true--this is not a race car, except for the .01% who make it one. These are the other potential positives that I can see for M-DCT:

• Manual is reportedly not the best--notchy, clunky, slow. Based on my E46 M3 experience, this is likely.
• DCT theoretically allows better than SMG Auto mode for those of us with spouses who don't like manuals and those dealing with congested commutes.
• Inadvertent skipped downshifts ("money shifts") will not be possible, especially important on the track when you might be in a hurry.
• Avoids possibility of BMW accusing you of overrevs if you have engine problems. This was something that BMW did when the first S54 engines started imploding.
• It's the future. If we had never had a manual clutch, I don't think anyone would miss it and ask for one. I'm 59 years old and grew up with clutches. I've never had anything else in my sport cars (SUVs excepted). I'm ready to give it a shot.
  
  On the downside:
• Less driver involvement.
• At 79 kg, it is probably 25 or so heavier than the manual.
• More expensive things to go wrong, expecially after warranty expiration.

Good pluses and minuses. Very much agree with the point about the feel of the MT being a bit sub-par. Sure a silky, accuarte, short throw stick is a lot of fun but the M3 box is getting a lot of criticism. Again to those who doubt the performance gains from the dual clutch system PLEASE watch this video:

The MT driver was the famous Japanese drifter and racer Keiichi Tsuchiya. OK granted part of the reason the DSG is faster is the near zero shift time but it does also have gear ratios favorable to better acceleration (likely just the way the M-DCT will be as well...). See my post about the GTI DSG vs. MT ratios here if you are really curious.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Totally true--this is not a race car, except for the .01% who make it one. These are the other potential positives that I can see for M-DCT:

• Manual is reportedly not the best--notchy, clunky, slow. Based on my E46 M3 experience, this is likely.
• DCT theoretically allows better than SMG Auto mode for those of us with spouses who don't like manuals and those dealing with congested commutes.
• Inadvertent skipped downshifts ("money shifts") will not be possible, especially important on the track when you might be in a hurry.
• Avoids possibility of BMW accusing you of overrevs if you have engine problems. This was something that BMW did when the first S54 engines started imploding.
• It's the future. If we had never had a manual clutch, I don't think anyone would miss it and ask for one. I'm 59 years old and grew up with clutches. I've never had anything else in my sport cars (SUVs excepted). I'm ready to give it a shot.
  
  On the downside:
• Less driver involvement.
• At 79 kg, it is probably 25 or so heavier than the manual.
• More expensive things to go wrong, expecially after warranty expiration.

I was ready to post almost the same answers... M-DCT is more than going faster.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by OzStriker

I thought the whole idea behind manual was for the US market, as was most of the philosphy behing the M3 being more of a tourer. There are numerous quotes out there stating this.

I think in this case the primary reason for the manual is that M-DCT was not ready and M did not want to launch the car with SMG only replace it just a few months later.

It would therefore seem unlikely to aim the M-DCT to occur with the US release, unless of course the system just happens to be ready for production at that time.

I think that's exactly the case - the system happens to be ready in 2008. Though we still do not know for sure if it will be there right at launch (signs look promising though).

[gregarious]

I think the best set up would be to have the up/down shift paddles left/right respectively, with a hand operated electronic/servo-feedback clutch to launch the way YOU want it....the best combo IMO...and instead of always having to stalk downshifts, I want to skip a gear or two by pulling the clutch, knocking down a few and reengaging when I want. If you have ever raced a shifter kart you will know what I mean...the most gratifying drive of my life.

EDIT: oh, and brakes...I want some sick hard grabbing brakes.

[Hunter399]

I will be getting this in my car

Its called "DKG" i believe

[Hunter399]

Originally Posted by gregarious

I think the best set up would be to have the up/down shift paddles left/right respectively, with a hand operated electronic/servo-feedback clutch to launch the way YOU want it....the best combo IMO...and instead of always having to stalk downshifts, I want to skip a gear or two by pulling the clutch, knocking down a few and reengaging when I want. If you have ever raced a shifter kart you will know what I mean...the most gratifying drive of my life.

EDIT: oh, and brakes...I want some sick hard grabbing brakes.

Shifts are so fast just click the paddle twice to move down two gears or more

No need for "pulling the clutch"

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Technic

I was ready to post almost the same answers... M-DCT is more than going faster.

Right on, just switched over to DCT.

[TheRealDC]

Originally Posted by southlight

Great!

Best regards, south

I gotta be in with a shout, given that I collected my IB MT M3 on Sep 15th last year ...... can I be president?

[michal12]

This thread is full of shit.
M-DCT box is getting the lever from the M5 and there are even official pictures of it. So WTF?

Originally Posted by MI6

According to "Leftlanenews" the M-DCT 7 speed tranny will debut in the M3 sedan at either Los Angeles or Detroit..........

The report cited the shift lever will be similar in style to the X5/E60.

Opinions?

EDIT: Sources (thanks gtb75) --

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/18/b...x-in-m3-sedan/

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/b...earbox-in-tow/

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=44404

[southlight]

Originally Posted by TheRealDC

I gotta be in with a shout, given that I collected my IB MT M3 on Sep 15th last year ...... can I be president?

Cool, you're in! I'm afraid Epacy wants to be president once he's taken delivery of his IB MT M3 next month.


Best regards, south

[southlight]

Originally Posted by michal12

This thread is full of shit.
M-DCT box is getting the lever from the M5 and there are even official pictures of it. So WTF?

You realized the post you're quoting is from back in September, didn't you?


Best regards, south