From 335 to M3

[xtremecruiser]

Originally Posted by urgentcaredoc

I bought my M3 this summer after trading by almost new 2008 335i vert (with Dinan software). Yes, there is a noticeable difference in the low end torque, but overall the M3 outperforms especially in handling and the non specific "fun factor". Also, looks are much superior! I have had no real issues with the DCT. Good luck...go 4 the M !

What he said

[dawgdog]

I've owned both. Heavily modded 335 and M3. The 335 is really nice but when pushed to the limits the M3 shines. My brother in law now owns my 335 and this photo was on our recent road trip.

[BMW-driver]

A .35i TT engine is a fine engine. Lot of torque, low end. With a good tune(!), the .35i is wonderful, even maintaning power top-end and idiot high torque numbers. But, dispite all tweaks on the .35i engine, the M3V8 engine is by far, the most superior and sporty high reving (race)engine.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by acs1.35i

A .35i TT engine is a fine engine. Lot of torque, low end. With a good tune(!), the .35i is wonderful, even maintaning power top-end and idiot high torque numbers. But, dispite all tweaks on the .35i engine, the M3V8 engine is by far, the most superior and sporty high reving (race)engine.

No way jose.

The general consensus (including dyno curves) show the 3.0 Liter inline-6 torque curve pretty much falls on its face after 5500 rpm where the 4.0 Liter V8 is just getting started and it retains 90% of its peak torque right uptil 8400 rpm. Part of the reason is attributed to the small size of the turboes to keep turbo lag at a minimum.

http://www.dragtimes.com/2007-BMW-33...phs-11251.html

Look at the stock dyno. At 5500 rpm, it is making a healthy 260 ft-lbs of wheel torque and then it goes down the toilet afterwards steeply dropping off in the next only 500 rpm down to 225 ft-lbs of wheel torque and then continuing to plummet down to only 200 ft-lbs of wheel torque at 6400 rpm and then eventually 170 ft-lbs of wheel torque at 6800 rpm.

[BMW-driver]

I mean: with a good tune on a 3.0TT, there is still some power at the high revs compared to stock. Better be said is that powerdropping isn't 'that huge' compared to a stock engine. f.i. I still have 350 bhp at almost 7.000 rpm. Really, that is very nice, compared to the stock engine. But ofcourse, a 3.0TT is not a high reving engine, ofcourse not. At high revs, the V8 shines with max. 420 bhp! The M3 is so much faster then a 135i. The 3.0 TT is very strong at low revs, the V8 isn't.

But, like I said, the V8 is a much superior engine compared to the 3.0TT.

[tuco44]

I just last week picked up an '09 E90 M3 DCT in AW. I have not had the chance to put more than about 600kms on it yet. I traded in a '08 535xi with 21,000kms on it.

My initial impressions fit with most of the comments above. The M3 is just a "special" car, in handling, tightness, "feel", high end grunt (can't get way up there yet as still on break-in), sounds, and "emotional feel". Initially, I would say the 5er was a touch more comfortable, as it should be as larger, heavier car with "comfort seats" option. The torque of the TT 3.0L was nice, and was appreciated in around town driving.

I am older, the "M" was a bit of a bucket list thing for me, and I'm sure I will enjoy for 3 or 4 years, then probably go back to something a bit more docile (like a 335d...maybe?). Every auto enthusiast should have the opporturnity of drive a BMW M car for a while......

[330CIZHP]

Well said.

Originally Posted by acs1.35i

I mean: with a good tune on a 3.0TT, there is still some power at the high revs compared to stock. Better be said is that powerdropping isn't 'that huge' compared to a stock engine. f.i. I still have 350 bhp at almost 7.000 rpm. Really, that is very nice, compared to the stock engine. But ofcourse, a 3.0TT is not a high reving engine, ofcourse not. At high revs, the V8 shines with max. 420 bhp! The M3 is so much faster then a 135i. The 3.0 TT is very strong at low revs, the V8 isn't.

But, like I said, the V8 is a much superior engine compared to the 3.0TT.

[adc]

I'm coming from a 335i in which I ran the entire complement of JB chips (JB1, JB2, JB3 and finally JB+). With the high boost map on the JB3 I think it was faster than the M, in a straight line. Certainly the ability to pick up incredible speed in any gear, any time made it idiot-proof.

Problem is, as soon as the speed increased, you started to feel the rest of the car falling behind, notably the suspension. I drove both cars on fast & challenging roads and on track (including the Nurburgring) and the M3 was much better. Not just suspension, but traction, LSD, turn-in etc.


I liked both engines equally, except perhaps sound where the N54 was nice and the S65 is incredible. Each shined in their own areas and purely from the aspect of motivating a car down the road, I would be happy with any one of them. (In fact, I was so close to getting a 135i and modifying it up the wazoo).

Engines aside, the M always feels more special to drive, drives better (especially in the rain) and looks cooler. I'm about to be re-united with my car this weekend (I think) and I'm pretty sure I will never look back with regret on the 335i...

[tinpot]

I recently switched from a modded 335 (Vishnu) to a DCT E92 M3 and I’m extremely happy that I made the change.

The 335 was a lot of fun since it was a sleeper and no other cars had any idea of the power I had. After switching over to the M3 I was a little disappointed at first as the M3 didn’t feel as quick as my old 335 at low RPMs. Now that I’ve driven my M3 for a couple of months, I’m glad I’ve made the switch. My feelings are the 335 is a very fast 3 series car whereas the M3 is in a class of its own: screaming V8, amazing handling, and aggressive looks. The most fun, though it feels impractical, is driving in S6 mode which makes the M3 light years ahead of the 335 in terms of power, responsiveness and sheer fun!

[fast4door]

I have a 08 335i with injen dci, custom exhaust, and jb+ at 75%. Now sure the M3 looks better, but I take M3's all day. My brother has the IS-F, and if I was going to pay60k+ I would get the IS-F. He destroys M3's and he only takes me by a 1.5 cars. (IS-F has intake). I may be biased, Ive only ever owned japanese cars and my last car was a Lexus GS430. I have nothing against BMW's, I Love My Car!! But if were talking about getting the most for your money, I think the IS-F is unbeatable if your thinking about the M3. The C63 is nice too, and the fastest of the three. Sorry M3 guys, I just wouldnt pay that much for that car when my car is faster within $2,000 invested into it. Drive an IS-F before you make a decision, you wont regret it. I would have been driving the IS-F if my brother didnt have it, but its ok...He'll be seeing my taillights very soon

[adc]

Originally Posted by Nando

I have a 08 335i with injen dci, custom exhaust, and jb+ at 75%. Now sure the M3 looks better, but I take M3's all day. My brother has the IS-F, and if I was going to pay60k+ I would get the IS-F. He destroys M3's and he only takes me by a 1.5 cars. (IS-F has intake). I may be biased, Ive only ever owned japanese cars and my last car was a Lexus GS430. I have nothing against BMW's, I Love My Car!! But if were talking about getting the most for your money, I think the IS-F is unbeatable if your thinking about the M3. The C63 is nice too, and the fastest of the three. Sorry M3 guys, I just wouldnt pay that much for that car when my car is faster within $2,000 invested into it. Drive an IS-F before you make a decision, you wont regret it. I would have been driving the IS-F if my brother didnt have it, but its ok...He'll be seeing my taillights very soon

Tell me again, why do you think your car with $2000 worth of mods is faster than an M3, and faster in what category?


If you wanted the fastest in a straight line, skip the IS-F and get the real thing, the C63. The IS-F IMO falls short of both the M3 and the C63 - it's not the best handling (that would be the M), nor the fastest (that would be the C). So why exactly get it? What would be your claim to fame to own it???

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Nando

I My brother has the IS-F, and if I was going to pay60k+ I would get the IS-F. He destroys M3's

What does an IS-F have to do with this thread?? Are you an IS-F marketing manager??

You mean he destroys M3s with drivers who do not know how to race especially with a 6 speed manual.

Although, M3 is not a drag racing car, but a properly driven 6 speed manual M3 will NEVER lose to auto slushbox IS-F in a drag race. Maybe, neck and neck at best. I saw it happening here at the dragstrip where an M3 6 speed sedan who is owned by a guy with a highly modified Z06 as well did about 7 runs with IS-F and won 5 out of 7 by ~1.5 car lengths.

I have a video of an M3 killing an IS-F in a race from 0 - 280 KM/H and from a 50 KM/H roll, but I cannot post it up due to forum rules.

Similar thing happened at Cayuga dragstrip in Toronto where two members of this board. One with IS-F and one with 6 speed M3 had a showdown and M3 killed the IS-F everytime by 0.1 of a second.

An M-DCT puts both cars on even plane with auto slushbox IS-F since both cars do not require launching and fast shifting skills.

Around a race track, they are not even comparable right now. An LSD is not going to make the IS-F come much closer.

[fast4door]

I am just speaking from personal experience, you guys can get mad if you want too. I live in south florida and there arent any tracks here, but in straight line speed, yes my car is faster than a M3. Of course the driver makes a difference, but I have yet to lose to a M3. Im just putting in my two cents, take it or leave it...and 6MT or not, IS-F "slushbox" 8speed tranny is sick, and thats is what makes that car so much faster..again from personal experience. If i was a IS-F maketing manager i wouldnt be drinving a 335 lol, and a M3 taking a IS-F by .01 of a second isnt a "kill". All im sayong is if you are consideing a IS-F vs a M3, IS-F wins all day, and we wont even talk about interior. If you are a BMW enthusiast and jsut want a BMW, the M3 is a great car, just not for me

[fast4door]

Originally Posted by adc

Tell me again, why do you think your car with $2000 worth of mods is faster than an M3, and faster in what category?


If you wanted the fastest in a straight line, skip the IS-F and get the real thing, the C63. The IS-F IMO falls short of both the M3 and the C63 - it's not the best handling (that would be the M), nor the fastest (that would be the C). So why exactly get it? What would be your claim to fame to own it???

The fastest is the C63, than the IS-F, than the M3. I would give the handling to the M, but it is slowest of the three. you tube it

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Nando

All im sayong is if you are consideing a IS-F vs a M3, IS-F wins all day, and we wont even talk about interior. If you are a BMW enthusiast and jsut want a BMW, the M3 is a great car, just not for me

That is your own subjective opinion and you are definitely entitled to it. However, the clear winner is the M3 and there are no twao ways about it. There is a reason why M3 places 1st in every single comparison and IS-F dead last even when compared to the out-dated RS4. It is more comfortable, faster race track car and far more engaging experience to drive than the IS-F.

Heck, let alone Tiff Needel or Jeremy Clarkson, even Orido Manibo and Tsuchiya San who are as pure JDM as Sushi put M3 way ahead of the IS-F in a back-to-back touge drive.

Yes, it also comes with a 6 speed manual and to a true enthusiast there is a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Nando

The fastest is the C63, than the IS-F, than the M3. I would give the handling to the M, but it is slowest of the three. you tube it

You are pulling stuff out of your a**.

Slowest in what??? M3 is faster than IS-F in everything with the exception of the case where M3 is in the hands of someone who does not know how to race a 6 speed manual. In a drag race, it is faster or in some test as quick, but never slower. I have videos of M3 beating IS-F in a drag race (including from Top Gear where the M3 smoked the IS-F by 3 car lengths). Around a race track, even a monkey knows it is not even a race. As simple as that.

Look at the following track test database:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=300

M3 is head and shoulders above the IS-F.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Nando

The fastest is the C63, than the IS-F, than the M3. I would give the handling to the M, but it is slowest of the three. you tube it

If you don't care about handling. There is are faster cars out there than any of those three. Plus you don't realize how much faster the DCT is in a straight line than the 6-speed manual.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Nando

The fastest is the C63, than the IS-F, than the M3. I would give the handling to the M, but it is slowest of the three. you tube it

You didn't answer my question - so if you want the fastest, you get the C63, if you want the best handling, you get the M3. And if you want the ....., you get the IS-F.

What exactly does the IS-F bring to the table??? I don't get it.


And although it's possible you have a freakishly strong 335i, I too am coming from a modified 335i. My last chip was the JB+ at 75% - and there is no way in hell that's faster than my current M3.

I've also run JB3 on the insane map which is a lot stronger than the JB+ and it is possible (although not certain) that it may have been faster than the M3. Hard to say, my recollection from that time is tainted by the scary suspension movements in the 335i, which made it seem even faster than it was.

I've just not seen a JB+ run faster than 110 mph in the 1/4 mile - and that would be required just to keep up with the lowest performing M3. M3's run 110-114 mph in the quarter. So your anectodal evidence notwithstanding, I'll go on to completely not believe that your car is faster.


But if I lived in flat Florida and wanted a really fast car in a straight line, I certainly wouldn't get a 335i. (Nor an M3, C63 or IS-F for that matter).

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Nando

The fastest is the C63, than the IS-F, than the M3. I would give the handling to the M, but it is slowest of the three. you tube it

Originally Posted by adc

You didn't answer my question - so if you want the fastest, you get the C63, if you want the best handling, you get the M3. And if you want the ....., you get the IS-F.

What exactly does the IS-F bring to the table??? I don't get it.

Game, set , match.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

What does an IS-F have to do with this thread??

Other than the fact the OP said he's looking at that as well as the C, M and S?

[fast4door]

yeah if you want the fastest get the c63..but thats also the most expensive. I went to try and buy one..sticker price is 61,000, but after options and with amg performance package you wont pay less than 75k. The IS-F and M3 are much more similar in price, therfore you get more for your money with the IS-F. Thats what it brings to the table. And the only reason Im talking about the IS-F is cause the OP was thinking of looking at one. Any other questions?

[fast4door]

and btw, my 335i is not the car that i originally wanted. I am not a BMW nor a Lexus enthusiast, but I am a car enthusiast. Thats why I chose the 335i, because for the money and compared to the other cars in its class, it was the best choice. And if I could have any car it wouldnt be any of the ones we are talking about either. You keep saying the M3 is faster than a IS-F and my 335i opn the track. Ill give you that, it may be...but when a IS-F pulls up next to you and your girl is in the car and you get spanked by the IS-F or worse a 335i, what are you gonna say to your girl? "I would have beat him on the track"???

[leemik]

Originally Posted by Nando

but when a IS-F pulls up next to you and your girl is in the car and you get spanked by the IS-F or worse a 335i, what are you gonna say to your girl? "I would have beat him on the track"???

How old are you? 16??? if your girl is embarrassed by you getting spanked my an IS-F then you need to find a new girl