Enhanced Premium Sound upgrade

[footie]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

yes please dood.

Cheers,
Neil.

Will do but you will have to wait until tomorrow, it's snowing outside and I don't fancy getting cold.

Question: Are you usually on your own in the car or is there someone in the passenger seat and what system do you have, standard, HiFi, L7 or Premium and what type of sound do you prefer, is it bassy or more accurate?

[dogears]

I have a new 2009 E90 M3 arriving at the dealer in two weeks. I listened to both the base stereo and the enhanced premium sound. I also listened to the 335i with Logic 7. One thing is certain. The base stereo is terrible. Put any volume in it and you get lots of nasty clipping. It is unuseable for me. The Logic 7 is not bad. I did not head to head the Logic vs Enhanced for subtle nuances, however, the Enhanced had it over the Logic 7 when listening to music loud. It was not close. Cranked up the enhanced sounded great to me. The imaging at low levels could be better.

I have a degree in audio engineering and have been a professional musician for 20 years. I should have some sense of what I hear.

The enhanced premium sound, whether worth it or not, is head and shoulders better than the base. I am scratching my head as to why I read differently on here.

(I have owned a Lexus with the Nakamichi in the past, currently have an Infiniti M45 Sport. Pretty good stereo)

[Technic]

Originally Posted by dogears

I have a new 2009 E90 M3 arriving at the dealer in two weeks. I listened to both the base stereo and the enhanced premium sound. I also listened to the 335i with Logic 7. One thing is certain. The base stereo is terrible. Put any volume in it and you get lots of nasty clipping. It is unuseable for me. The Logic 7 is not bad. I did not head to head the Logic vs Enhanced for subtle nuances, however, the Enhanced had it over the Logic 7 when listening to music loud. It was not close. Cranked up the enhanced sounded great to me. The imaging at low levels could be better.

I have a degree in audio engineering and have been a professional musician for 20 years. I should have some sense of what I hear.

The enhanced premium sound, whether worth it or not, is head and shoulders better than the base. I am scratching my head as to why I read differently on here.
(I have owned a Lexus with the Nakamichi in the past, currently have an Infiniti M45 Sport. Pretty good stereo)

... maybe is dandruff?

Because nobody here is saying that the base audio is better or even close to Individual Audio in sound quality, but for the price I was expecting much more. What the last discussion was about is of which system is better for me if I have to do this all over again, and the answer is to get the HiFi and upgrade it with aftermarket... which I ended up doing it with the Individual Audio anyways.

And because the person that asked the initial question is in Europe -where Logic7 is available in the M3- my opinion is that the Individual Audio is not worth double the option price of L7, as it is not double the improvement in sound quality. However, in the USA the Premium Audio (Individual) may be worth the price over the HIFi if there's no intention of doing any aftermarket improvement.

Otherwise, Premium Audio is not worth it at all IMO. And also I'm not in the opinion that the base audio is terrible, it is pretty good for what it is. The trick with the Logic7 and the Premium -that the HiFi doesn't have- is the heavy digital manipulation and time alignment that is going on, which compensates a lot for bad sources; after all that's the point. However, a good quality CD and even an MP3 recorded at least at 320kps sounds pretty good in the HiFi. For anything else it cannot do magic. But terrible, I don't think so.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by dogears

I have a new 2009 E90 M3 arriving at the dealer in two weeks. I listened to both the base stereo and the enhanced premium sound. I also listened to the 335i with Logic 7. One thing is certain. The base stereo is terrible. Put any volume in it and you get lots of nasty clipping. It is unuseable for me. The Logic 7 is not bad. I did not head to head the Logic vs Enhanced for subtle nuances, however, the Enhanced had it over the Logic 7 when listening to music loud. It was not close. Cranked up the enhanced sounded great to me. The imaging at low levels could be better.

I have a degree in audio engineering and have been a professional musician for 20 years. I should have some sense of what I hear.

The enhanced premium sound, whether worth it or not, is head and shoulders better than the base. I am scratching my head as to why I read differently on here.

(I have owned a Lexus with the Nakamichi in the past, currently have an Infiniti M45 Sport. Pretty good stereo)

I think the base system images pretty well for having no processing at all. It does sound like crap if you listen to it with the bass and treble cranked up like the lot boys at the delaership usually like to do. With a little adjustment, it sounds decent. Like Technic said, it's not good to the point of you'll never need to upgrade if you're used to high end systems but neither is the premium system.

I've had competition level systems before myself and while the base system is definitely thin in the treble and forward in the midrange, it's pretty good for what it is.

[dogears]

Sorry it seemed I misunderstood the comments.... I was merely saying that the enhanced premium sound is light years better than the standard base system. In the US, for those that want good sound and do not want to add aftermarket, the enhanced is the the choice. Cranked up, I found it to sound pretty good. The base system was garbage for me. Not an option. For low level listening it was ok, but as I said, terrible when pushed.

Btw, I enjoyed reading your posts Technic. You are a very knowledgeable guy! I am sure your install kicks much ass.

Carry on!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by dogears

Sorry it seemed I misunderstood the comments.... I was merely saying that the enhanced premium sound is light years better than the standard base system. In the US, for those that want good sound and do not want to add aftermarket, the enhanced is the the choice. Cranked up, I found it to sound pretty good. The base system was garbage for me. Not an option. For low level listening it was ok, but as I said, terrible when pushed.

Btw, I enjoyed reading your posts Technic. You are a very knowledgeable guy! I am sure your install kicks much ass.

Carry on!

Thanks... I was expecting to be blown away by the Premium Audio, but it did not do it for me, that's all.

[dogears]

I understand that.... I have been used to pretty decent systems in my prior cars. I don't feel that the enhanced is on a lower level, unless we are talking at low volume. The soundstage is not very good at low levels.

Too bad they could not do a system like Audi......

I have also heard good things about the Bowers and Wilkins in the new Jaguar XF-S. I was considering that car but dropped the idea when I found out their is no limited slip rear end.

Originally Posted by Technic

Thanks... I was expecting to be blown away by the Premium Audio, but it did not do it for me, that's all.

[Technic]

Three devices...



... into (bit) one:



http://download.elettromedia.it/files/audison/Bit%20One%20manual%201_2a.pdf

In a nutshell, the bit one solves a couple of issues (hiss introduced by the Cleansweep to keep the OEM volume functional, and some random whine at start up) of my past setup while further improving the sound quality due to many more adjustment capabilities.

Definitely this DIRAC system does something with the voices, because this bit one also fix that completely and then some. Clarity and loudness are improved, even more after tuning. A very nice feature is Dynamic Equalization, which allows the user to compensate with a full 31-band EQ the volume at low and high levels (set also by the user). This is like a very detailed "loudness" setting: at low volume you can set an EQ curve on top of the main EQ curve, and the same at high volume to compensate for specific frequencies (mostly bass) listening levels lost due to volume level.

However, in the Premium Audio in particular the "De-Equalization" calibration procedure of the bit one requires that the high level outputs from the OEM amp be somewhat reduced or the bit one will saturate causing the low frequencies to not be summed to the high frequencies. There was a change in specs from the initial documentation of the bit one that stated that the high level inputs max rating was around 32V RMS, or 46V peak, and now the latest documentation states that the max high level input is 20V peak.

The OEM amp in the Premium Audio puts out at least 100W RMS at 7 ohms at the OEM woofers, which converts to at least 26V peak, which will saturate the bit one high level inputs. So when calibrating this unit with a Premium Audio system this has to be taken into consideration or it will not calibrate correctly. I do not think that either the base HiFi or the Logic 7 will have this issue, as these OEM amps are less than half in power output compared to the Premium Audio, and in the case of the HiFi there's no need to use the high level inputs or its OEM amp anyway as the OEM HU/iDrive outputs analog low level differential so the low level inputs of the bit one can be used in base systems.

The good news for Logic7 and Premium Audio owners: mObridge is coming in a couple of months with the first MOST digital converter box, in either Toslink output (direct compatibility with the bit one as Audison is developing this converter with mObridge) or preamp outputs (direct to aftermarket amps). So no more Cleansweep, no more any channels summing, no more any "De-EQ" to correct for OEM processing. Just direct digital interface from the OEM HU/iDrive, completely bypassing the digital OEM amp.

[808MGuy]

Glad to see you got the issues worked out.

Just to clarify, no summing needed for Hi-fi? In fact, is summing low level inputs even an option on the BitOne or is it only for high level inputs.

[Adonislike]

Originally Posted by Technic

Thanks... I was expecting to be blown away by the Premium Audio, but it did not do it for me, that's all.

+1000!! There is nothing Premium about the Premium Audio imo. Install of new audio going in this weekend hopefully. Got delayed again

But its okay I guess. Thanks to expertise of Technic, I am going to be veeeeeeeerrry happy I think. WOO HOO!!!!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Glad to see you got the issues worked out.

Just to clarify, no summing needed for Hi-fi? In fact, is summing low level inputs even an option on the BitOne or is it only for high level inputs.

I know that high level inputs are summed automatically, I'm not 100% sure that low levels are summed, though. But in your case (HiFi) there is only a straight connection from the OEM HU outputs into the bit one low level inputs (RCA). No need to "De-Equalization" either, although it never hurts...

[jml]

Originally Posted by Technic

Three devices...



... into (bit) one:



http://download.elettromedia.it/files/audison/Bit%20One%20manual%201_2a.pdf

In a nutshell, the bit one solves a couple of issues (hiss introduced by the Cleansweep to keep the OEM volume functional, and some random whine at start up) of my past setup while further improving the sound quality due to many more adjustment capabilities.

Definitely this DIRAC system does something with the voices, because this bit one also fix that completely and then some. Clarity and loudness are improved, even more after tuning. A very nice feature is Dynamic Equalization, which allows the user to compensate with a full 31-band EQ the volume at low and high levels (set also by the user). This is like a very detailed "loudness" setting: at low volume you can set an EQ curve on top of the main EQ curve, and the same at high volume to compensate for specific frequencies (mostly bass) listening levels lost due to volume level.

However, in the Premium Audio in particular the "De-Equalization" calibration procedure of the bit one requires that the high level outputs from the OEM amp be somewhat reduced or the bit one will saturate causing the low frequencies to not be summed to the high frequencies. There was a change in specs from the initial documentation of the bit one that stated that the high level inputs max rating was around 32V RMS, or 46V peak, and now the latest documentation states that the max high level input is 20V peak.

The OEM amp in the Premium Audio puts out at least 100W RMS at 7 ohms at the OEM woofers, which converts to at least 26V peak, which will saturate the bit one high level inputs. So when calibrating this unit with a Premium Audio system this has to be taken into consideration or it will not calibrate correctly. I do not think that either the base HiFi or the Logic 7 will have this issue, as these OEM amps are less than half in power output compared to the Premium Audio, and in the case of the HiFi there's no need to use the high level inputs or its OEM amp anyway as the OEM HU/iDrive outputs analog low level differential so the low level inputs of the bit one can be used in base systems.

The good news for Logic7 and Premium Audio owners: mObridge is coming in a couple of months with the first MOST digital converter box, in either Toslink output (direct compatibility with the bit one as Audison is developing this converter with mObridge) or preamp outputs (direct to aftermarket amps). So no more Cleansweep, no more any channels summing, no more any "De-EQ" to correct for OEM processing. Just direct digital interface from the OEM HU/iDrive, completely bypassing the digital OEM amp.

Reminds me of the old Sony XES series.

[Gemcoska]

Whoa, I was totally outta the loop on this one. Technic! Nice job! I didn't know that you were gonna do the bitone.

What did you pay for it?

Sounds like we should wait for the mObridge digital converter box. Any idea how long a couple of months is really gonna be?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Whoa, I was totally outta the loop on this one. Technic! Nice job! I didn't know that you were gonna do the bitone.

What did you pay for it?

Sounds like we should wait for the mObridge digital converter box. Any idea how long a couple of months is really gonna be?

Definitely... I don't think that the Audison engineers took into account how powerful is the Individual Audio OEM amp. Although my setup works great, I'm still kind of disappointed in the change of high level max input specs of this unit.

The digital input will eliminate this problem completely and most probably it will sound even better than what it is now in my setup.

These mObridge boxes are supposed to show up by April according to Electtromedia USA, the same company that distributes the whole Audison line in the states and will be also the distributor of the preamp boxes.

The MSRP of the bit one is $800, however it can be found between $100 and $150 below that price if you shop around. Just make sure that the shop is an authorized Audison dealer for full warranty and support. I already used it...

[Jerktown]

Originally Posted by Technic

The good news for Logic7 and Premium Audio owners: mObridge is coming in a couple of months with the first MOST digital converter box, in either Toslink output (direct compatibility with the bit one as Audison is developing this converter with mObridge) or preamp outputs (direct to aftermarket amps). So no more Cleansweep, no more any channels summing, no more any "De-EQ" to correct for OEM processing. Just direct digital interface from the OEM HU/iDrive, completely bypassing the digital OEM amp.

Does this make any sense to you:

Originally Posted by mObridge

BMW Application Notes:
1) CD Changer Retention: The simplest solution is to disable ("take out of the loop") the BMW factory CD changer. However, a BMW CD Changer may
remain in the system concurrent with mObridge, however it requires special setup and an electrical switch for the customer to switch between either/or.
Please consult mObridge Sales or Support or our documentation section for further instruction.
2) iPod and Aux interface is done through the CD Changer interface.
3) CD Changer Enablement: If the vehicle is not already equipped with CD changer, it will need to be "retrofit coded" for the CDC or the factory iPod
retrofit kit (note: this is NOT the same as BMW factory iPod option 6FL starting 2007 cars).
4) CD Changer Prewiring: Those cars not equipped with CD Changer are often optioned with the CD changer prewiring. Some additional connector
parts may be required. Please inspect the vehicle and inquire. In vehicles that are CDC-prewired, it is generally not necessary to use the mObridge-
provided harness as the BMW connector is the same as mObridges (with the exception of needing a simple pin wire swap).

Say I have an 09 with 6FL and Enhanced Premium .. what does this mean for me if I want to run aftermarket amps and speakers? Is there anywhere to find more information on that preamp? Did I hear right that the M3's Enhanced Premium does different EQ curves at different volume levels? Does this thing compensate for that somehow? Are there any other products that do something like this?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Jerktown

Say I have an 09 with 6FL and Enhanced Premium .. what does this mean for me if I want to run aftermarket amps and speakers? Is there anywhere to find more information on that preamp? Did I hear right that the M3's Enhanced Premium does different EQ curves at different volume levels? Does this thing compensate for that somehow? Are there any other products that do something like this?

I think you should go back to the beginning of this thread and read the whole thing over again. All the information is there. Technic provided it in a very organized fashion so that everyone could understand. Once you read through it, I think your questions will be answered.

[Jerktown]

Originally Posted by HIS4

I think you should go back to the beginning of this thread and read the whole thing over again. All the information is there. Technic provided it in a very organized fashion so that everyone could understand. Once you read through it, I think your questions will be answered.

Maybe you thought I was asking about the Bit1? I'm not; I'm asking about the mObridge preamp, and specifically, the possibility of running it directly to aftermarket amps (without using a Bit1). The mObridge only just came up on this last page, and I don't see answers to my questions about it.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Jerktown

Maybe you thought I was asking about the Bit1? I'm not; I'm asking about the mObridge preamp, and specifically, the possibility of running it directly to aftermarket amps (without using a Bit1). The mObridge only just came up on this last page, and I don't see answers to my questions about it.

My bad. I though you were asking about the BitOne. Anyway, according to the information given, a complete bypass of the OEM amp would mean that there would be no EQ to de-EQ. The dirac does vary the EQ based on volume.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Jerktown

Does this make any sense to you:



Say I have an 09 with 6FL and Enhanced Premium .. what does this mean for me if I want to run aftermarket amps and speakers? Is there anywhere to find more information on that preamp? Did I hear right that the M3's Enhanced Premium does different EQ curves at different volume levels? Does this thing compensate for that somehow? Are there any other products that do something like this?

What you posted from mObridge applies only to their Bluetooth/iPod adapter module, which uses the OEM CD changer MOST (fiber optic connector) port as its output port.

The mObridge MOST preamps are somewhat explained here: http://www.mobridgeinc.com/news/preamp_ces

The Enhanced Premium Audio OEM amp does different EQ curves and time alignments depending of volume level and speed. This MOST preamp is supposed to simply remove completely the OEM amp from the system, by taking over the digital audio output from your iDrive/OEM amp digital input and either converting it to Toslink (to interface with Toslink input amps and processors as Audison) or RCA low level analog signals for RCA input processors/amps. Therefore all the procesing is gone as the OEM amp is gone... it is unprocessed digital audio input into these preamps devices.

According to mObridge these preamps are also supposed to keep the functionality of all the OEM audio controls such as volume, bass, treble and even the Premium Audio EQ.

For you to run aftermarket amp/speakers in your Premium Audio you could do the same that I did in this thread, or just wait until these preamps are available.

[Jerktown]

Originally Posted by Technic

What you posted from mObridge applies only to their Bluetooth/iPod adapter module, which uses the OEM CD changer MOST (fiber optic connector) port as its output port.

The mObridge MOST preamps are somewhat explained here: http://www.mobridgeinc.com/news/preamp_ces

The Enhanced Premium Audio OEM amp does different EQ curves and time alignments depending of volume level and speed. This MOST preamp is supposed to simply remove completely the OEM amp from the system, by taking over the digital audio output from your iDrive/OEM amp digital input and either converting it to Toslink (to interface with Toslink input amps and processors as Audison) or RCA low level analog signals for RCA input processors/amps. Therefore all the procesing is gone as the OEM amp is gone... it is unprocessed digital audio input into these preamps devices.

According to mObridge these preamps are also supposed to keep the functionality of all the OEM audio controls such as volume, bass, treble and even the Premium Audio EQ.

For you to run aftermarket amp/speakers in your Premium Audio you could do the same that I did in this thread, or just wait until these preamps are available.

Sweet. I found that document that I quoted from in the application guide for the preamps, but if you're right, that's awesome. I ordered enhanced premium because I knew it'd take me a year to figure out what to do aftermarket-wise, and because it'd probably be a year anyway before I'd be willing to let my new M3 go under the knife, and I figured the premium could hold me over that long, or maybe I'd just be satisfied with it and not have to go aftermarket. It'd be nice if there were a product that can do what this claims to be able to do when I'm ready, though. But it seems odd to me that if it's possible to do this that there's hasn't been a product that does it until now. Hell, by the time I'm ready to let my new M3 get cut up, maybe the fricking MS-8 will finally be out - that mObridge pre-amp along with an MS-8 would be ideal for my needs, since I really want an auto-tune, auto-RTA solution with full integration of OEM controls.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Jerktown

Sweet. I found that document that I quoted from in the application guide for the preamps, but if you're right, that's awesome. I ordered enhanced premium because I knew it'd take me a year to figure out what to do aftermarket-wise, and because it'd probably be a year anyway before I'd be willing to let my new M3 go under the knife, and I figured the premium could hold me over that long, or maybe I'd just be satisfied with it and not have to go aftermarket. It'd be nice if there were a product that can do what this claims to be able to do when I'm ready, though. But it seems odd to me that if it's possible to do this that there's hasn't been a product that does it until now. Hell, by the time I'm ready to let my new M3 get cut up, maybe the fricking MS-8 will finally be out - that mObridge pre-amp along with an MS-8 would be ideal for my needs, since I really want an auto-tune, auto-RTA solution with full integration of OEM controls.

What you really want then is the OEM Logic7 system that is optional in the 3 Series...

[jml]

Originally Posted by Technic

What you posted from mObridge applies only to their Bluetooth/iPod adapter module, which uses the OEM CD changer MOST (fiber optic connector) port as its output port.

The mObridge MOST preamps are somewhat explained here: http://www.mobridgeinc.com/news/preamp_ces

The Enhanced Premium Audio OEM amp does different EQ curves and time alignments depending of volume level and speed.

Dirac does a lot more than this, it adjusts the phase and boost at hundreds of points along the frequency spectrum. This is dependent not only on the interior response of the car, but the speakers, and the average road noise. If you've ever seen the output from the PC software that connects to a receiver with Audyssey, I am pretty sure Dirac is doing something similar. Net is you *have* to get rid of the OEM amp to reach the full potential of an aftermarket setup - otherwise it's going to sound a bit off. Kind of a waste to start with Enhanced audio.....