Enhanced Premium Sound upgrade

[ersin]

But Technic seems to be hooked up somehow. I believe he had the Bit1 before they were selling here too.


Cheers.

[11' AW M3]

Nice technic

Are you running that unit with the oem amp? Where did you mount the screen? The street price on this should be like ~$600, yea?

Look forward to updates as this may be a great option for me when I decide to do the audio upgrades....

[ersin]

Originally Posted by 11' AW M3

Nice technic

Are you running that unit with the oem amp? Where did you mount the screen? The street price on this should be like ~$600, yea?

Look forward to updates as this may be a great option for me when I decide to do the audio upgrades....

He's probably using the Alpine amps he put in there a while back. Or, reading all the things Technic has tried, I wouldn't be surprised if he has some other amps in there now. Seems kind of fickle, doesn't it? But, I'm really grateful he's done this. He's done all the hard work researching this then posting it here for us. Thanks, Technic!

Hearing about the MS-8 at first, I was like, meh, I'll be using aftermarket amps anyway so may as well get the Bit1 instead -- don't want to pay for something I can't use. But if you are definitely doing the processor thing then you could just start with the MS-8 with its built-in amps. This will allow you to add more power (and $$$) later. If you go with the Bit1 you have to start with amps first since a Bit1 alone won't do. This means you either pay for it all up front, or do without the processing until you have the money.

Plus, it seems like the MS-8 can automate a lot of the set up for you compared to the Bit1. That's important for someone who doesn't tune audio systems every day. Someone like me. So, now I'm like, kewel.


Cheers.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by ersin

Technic,

Are you using the MS-8 amps? They seem kind of low powered. Just wondering. It seems to be a pretty impressive box though.


Cheers.

Originally Posted by ersin

But Technic seems to be hooked up somehow. I believe he had the Bit1 before they were selling here too.


Cheers.

I'm still using the PDX amps. They have worked pretty well so far with all my three processor configurations.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 11' AW M3

Nice technic

Are you running that unit with the oem amp? Where did you mount the screen? The street price on this should be like ~$600, yea?

Look forward to updates as this may be a great option for me when I decide to do the audio upgrades....

I coded my iDrive CIC to output analog low level balanced (used to be digital proprietary). I'm not mounting the screen, I prefer the OEM volume functionality. So I followed the JB recommendation of setting everything up with the screen attached and then set the MS-8 volume to -6dB and then unplugging the screen.

Contact VP Electricity for the best price so far for the MS-8.

[VP Electricity]

I think you may be missing the point of what Technic is saying here.

He's saying that he's been tweaking the BitOne settings for a year, and the MS-8 got him better results in less than an hour than he had achieved over that year.
I run Zapco DC - I like the tuning options better than the BitOne - and i really like how mine sounds - but the MS-8 gets results that are nearly as good, in some aspects better.

The deck power built into the MS-8 doesn't add to the price appreciably - no more than an aftermarket CD player, it uses the same amp ICs - but it keeps you from spending money on center and rear amplification if you don't want to, and you can still use external amps for the important channels - front m/h, midbass, and sub.
________
Yamaha SRX250

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by ersin

But Technic seems to be hooked up somehow. I believe he had the Bit1 before they were selling here too.


Cheers.

No he didn't. I did, and mine was one of the first in the country (it wasn't even supposed to have a model number), and I KNOW his MS-8 wasn't an early release. JBL used them in some team cars and as far as I know noone got an early unit. I don't see the amps being much different.

But he has surprised me a number of times with his secret squirrel findings, so who knows.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by ersin

Hearing about the MS-8 at first, I was like, meh, I'll be using aftermarket amps anyway so may as well get the Bit1 instead -- don't want to pay for something I can't use. But if you are definitely doing the processor thing then you could just start with the MS-8 with its built-in amps. This will allow you to add more power (and $$$) later. If you go with the Bit1 you have to start with amps first since a Bit1 alone won't do. This means you either pay for it all up front, or do without the processing until you have the money.

Plus, it seems like the MS-8 can automate a lot of the set up for you compared to the Bit1. That's important for someone who doesn't tune audio systems every day. Someone like me. So, now I'm like, kewel.


Cheers.

What didn't you thnk you'd be able to use, new amps? I'm not sure what you're saying but Andy from JBL said the powered channels were added later for people that don't want to add amps.

The MS-8 does auto-setup for everything except crossover points.

If you haven't looked yet, check out the MS-8 threads on diymobileaudio.com. I think the big one is over 100 pages, maybe more. TONS of good info but Technic definitely has the inside scoop on integrating it into the E9X. As soon as I get some small parts together and his HiFi adapter mine will be going in as well.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I think you may be missing the point of what Technic is saying here.

He's saying that he's been tweaking the BitOne settings for a year, and the MS-8 got him better results in less than an hour than he had achieved over that year.
I run Zapco DC - I like the tuning options better than the BitOne - and i really like how mine sounds - but the MS-8 gets results that are nearly as good, in some aspects better.

The deck power built into the MS-8 doesn't add to the price appreciably - no more than an aftermarket CD player, it uses the same amp ICs - but it keeps you from spending money on center and rear amplification if you don't want to, and you can still use external amps for the important channels - front m/h, midbass, and sub.

Erin had the same experience and his Civic sounded damned good before when he still had the BitOne.1 in there.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

What didn't you thnk you'd be able to use, new amps? I'm not sure what you're saying but Andy from JBL said the powered channels were added later for people that don't want to add amps.

The MS-8 does auto-setup for everything except crossover points.

If you haven't looked yet, check out the MS-8 threads on diymobileaudio.com. I think the big one is over 100 pages, maybe more. TONS of good info but Technic definitely has the inside scoop on integrating it into the E9X. As soon as I get some small parts together and his HiFi adapter mine will be going in as well.

Originally, I figured the amps in the MS-8 wouldn't be useful since I would think pretty much that someone getting a processor would already be considering new amps so why pay extra. But after thinking about it it's a good deal for a few reasons: they can be used for the center channel or other low power channels, auto configuration, and you could use the "low" power MS-8 amps until you get new amps. It seems like I came across dissing the MS-8. In fact, just the opposite.

When VP Electricity announced the MS-8 is not shipping to the US I remarked that Technic is always on top of things, such that he can get these new things first when the rest of us can't. Lots of great info from him and I'm grateful Technic is doing this and posting.

I'm waiting on his HiFi adapter too. I was planning on getting something like the BitOne but if I do this in stages (which is best since my wife would veto a big all-in-one expenditure) I'd have to start with amps first, then add the BitOne later. With the MS-8 I have the option of doing it this way, or of starting with the MS-8 first.


Cheers.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I think you may be missing the point of what Technic is saying here.

He's saying that he's been tweaking the BitOne settings for a year, and the MS-8 got him better results in less than an hour than he had achieved over that year.
I run Zapco DC - I like the tuning options better than the BitOne - and i really like how mine sounds - but the MS-8 gets results that are nearly as good, in some aspects better.

The deck power built into the MS-8 doesn't add to the price appreciably - no more than an aftermarket CD player, it uses the same amp ICs - but it keeps you from spending money on center and rear amplification if you don't want to, and you can still use external amps for the important channels - front m/h, midbass, and sub.

I think you misunderstood my post. I get it that the autoconfig option of the MS-8 works good and saves time. This is exactly the sort of thing someone like me, who doesn't tune audio systems everyday, needs.

I was just telling my initial impressions when hearing of the MS-8. After thinking about it the amps seem to make excellent sense.


Cheers.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by ersin

When VP Electricity announced the MS-8 is not shipping to the US I remarked that Technic is always on top of things, such that he can get these new things first when the rest of us can't. Lots of great info from him and I'm grateful Technic is doing this and posting.

The JBL MS series amps are not shipping in the US. I ordered and sold Technic his MS-8

The MS series amps are a 4-channel Class D and a mono, smaller than PDX amps, and with DSP input and xovers. They are part of the MS family and they are what I thought you were talking about - although I should not have called them "MS-8" since they are "MS-series".
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Kawasaki ZN1300A

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

If you haven't looked yet, check out the MS-8 threads on diymobileaudio.com. .

This is a digest of Andy's explanations without the questions.
________
Kawasaki KD125

[Neon01]

Fantastic thread. After tweaking and tweaking with the stock sound in the EPS, I realized that I've got to do something to get rid of this crappy system. No matter what I do to flatten the freq response and add "presence", it's just wrong at some other volume level. I've come to the realization that it just won't sound good unless it's loud enough to be painful.

If all of my research on this forum hasn't confused the hell out of me - which it probably has - it sounds like the JBL MS-8 pre/pro is the way to go along with the SWS-8 mid-bass units and an amp to power them?

My primary goal is to keep everything looking completely stock, and I certainly don't want to add a lot of weight and wiring if I don't have to. So VP has all the equipment I need? Are there plug and play wiring harnesses for the MS-8? I really didn't want to have to start cutting the stock harness if I can avoid it.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Neon01

Fantastic thread. After tweaking and tweaking with the stock sound in the EPS, I realized that I've got to do something to get rid of this crappy system. No matter what I do to flatten the freq response and add "presence", it's just wrong at some other volume level. I've come to the realization that it just won't sound good unless it's loud enough to be painful.

If all of my research on this forum hasn't confused the hell out of me - which it probably has - it sounds like the JBL MS-8 pre/pro is the way to go along with the SWS-8 mid-bass units and an amp to power them?

My primary goal is to keep everything looking completely stock, and I certainly don't want to add a lot of weight and wiring if I don't have to. So VP has all the equipment I need? Are there plug and play wiring harnesses for the MS-8? I really didn't want to have to start cutting the stock harness if I can avoid it.

The problem with the EPS and adding aftermarket processors/amps to it is that its woofer outputs are seriously high level, something in the 30V+ peaks. You can see in this thread that I tried several devices to tame that voltage and at the end I just went ahead and recoded my iDrive to low level outputs so I do not have to deal with these high voltages.

You could try the MS-8 connected to the OEM amp, as JBL said that it can handle that high level voltage though. In the worst case of input level issues you can always get an Audiocontrol LC6i before the MS-8 and this high level problem will be completely solved. Your EPS system will require at least 7-channels of amplification with the MS-8. A pair of SWS-8 will be a nice replacement for your OEM woofers, unless you are planning to have a sub as well. If so you should get a midbass driver instead of more subs.

You will definitely like the new sound of your system at any volume.

I can sell you all the connectors required for you to add the MS-8 and underseat woofers to your system without cutting a single OEM wire. PM for details.

[Neon01]

Regarding running the SWS-8 with the stock amp, I realize that the standard 4 ohm load will overheat the amp, but what about running two of them in series (or 4ohm resistors in series with each driver VC to preserve the channels)? It would give you an 8ohm load, so no overheat issues. Only issue would be power output would be halved (compared to stock) or maybe a little less. So each woofer would be getting roughly 60 watts RMS, if I recall that someone posted the OEM amp sends roughly 125 watts RMS to each of the OEM subs.

I'm not sure how the SWS subs would perform with 60 watts though. Still, might be worth a try to see where it gets me. I can always add an amp later.

[VP Electricity]

Are these particular OEM woofers 2 or 4 ohms?

EQ makes their woofers in 2 and 4 ohm (although they run out of 2 all the time).

They *say* that the 2 ohm are for use in OEM systems on OEM amps. In talking to them, I'm not certain that they have ever tested it.

The SWS8 is more of a true woofer than a midbass woofer. It is also fairly power hungry. I wouldn't hesitate to run them with 60W, no damage would result, but depending on how loud/efficient the rest of the system is, they might not keep up.
________
silver surfer reviews

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Are these particular OEM woofers 2 or 4 ohms?

EQ makes their woofers in 2 and 4 ohm (although they run out of 2 all the time).

They *say* that the 2 ohm are for use in OEM systems on OEM amps. In talking to them, I'm not certain that they have ever tested it.

The SWS8 is more of a true woofer than a midbass woofer. It is also fairly power hungry. I wouldn't hesitate to run them with 60W, no damage would result, but depending on how loud/efficient the rest of the system is, they might not keep up.

The EPS woofers are 7 ohms.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Neon01

Regarding running the SWS-8 with the stock amp, I realize that the standard 4 ohm load will overheat the amp, but what about running two of them in series (or 4ohm resistors in series with each driver VC to preserve the channels)? It would give you an 8ohm load, so no overheat issues. Only issue would be power output would be halved (compared to stock) or maybe a little less. So each woofer would be getting roughly 60 watts RMS, if I recall that someone posted the OEM amp sends roughly 125 watts RMS to each of the OEM subs.

I'm not sure how the SWS subs would perform with 60 watts though. Still, might be worth a try to see where it gets me. I can always add an amp later.

You can try that, but as VP stated the SWS-8 is not that sensitive and it requires quite some power.