|
|
09-22-2007, 12:43 PM | #67 | ||||
Moderator / European Editor
1494
Rep 6,755
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No, you're kidding... Best regards, south |
||||
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 12:50 PM | #68 |
New Member
0
Rep 8
Posts |
this time of 7.58 was on a rs4 limo, of corse with the semis,
but and here comes the difference the driver was stipler from the dtm. the car was stoked with the super plus sportfahrwerk, wight around 1680 kg. Minimum equipement. (no navi but Radio, no other extras. it is all about an excelent driver, i wish i could drive like thos people |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 12:56 PM | #69 | |
Moderator / European Editor
1494
Rep 6,755
Posts |
Quote:
Best regards, south |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 12:57 PM | #70 | |
New Member
0
Rep 8
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/aktue...2725_14653.hbs Will recheck the mag |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:01 PM | #71 | |
Moderator / European Editor
1494
Rep 6,755
Posts |
Quote:
EDIT: Here's the proof: On bottom left it reads P Zero Corsa: http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?..._122_692lo.JPG [source: germancarzone.com ] Best regards, south |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:10 PM | #72 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Rescue
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:16 PM | #73 | |||
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
All that said, my belief is that posted "best" times for the Nurburgring are fundamentally pretty representative of the car's capability, down to perhaps a couple of seconds per lap - or at least in that vicinity. I believe that to be so for the following reasons: 1) The manufacturers are striving for best times (amongst other things), so it's very reasonable to assume that they will make sure the car or cars they've brought to the site will be in perfect tune, and everything that may affect power, handling and braking will be well attended to. 2) As I understand it, manufacturers typically reserve the 'Ring for days or even weeks in a given year, for basic testing, but also to make sure they run a gamut of conditions. They come armed with enough data in regard to general and 'Ring-specific information so that when they leave, they know they've gotten a representative sample of the car's best performance - or not. If not, they'll be back. It remains to be seen, but when BMW let it out that they were doing 8:10s or so, they may have been a little disappointed (as I was), so definitely more to come. They won't stop until they're satisfied they've got a representative time, whatever that may be. Quote:
Allowing anything but either standard or optional rubber means you get hopelessly mired down in trying to equate yet another variable, in this case one that does not lend itself to accurate "adjustment". Quote:
I understand where you're coming from, since your belief is that there is a broad latitude of plus or minus in the published times, but of course that is where we fundamentally disagree. I think the published times are likely to be representative to within a couple of seconds per lap, and you think it's way more. So be it. Bruce |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:32 PM | #74 | ||||
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Quote:
However, the discussion is about a car mag testing different cars at different times. I doubt that any one magazine will have the knowledge base, funds, or the motivation to keep on optimizing under several different conditions for any given car. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:34 PM | #75 | |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
Quote:
Epacy, I have to respond in turn. I am responding to the initial post, based on the presumption that Cup tires were used. So, every post from there on has been under that assumption. If you read one of my first posts, you'll see that I would give BMW an extraordinary amount of -deserved- credit for that accomplishment (non-Cup). (I hope that the time was achieved without Cup tires). In the end, it's not that I don't understand why many here would consider Cup tires ok, it's just that (imo) it's an unfair advantage. You have to admit, tires make this time, not the car. To me, there is no definitive right or wrong in this case. My opinion just happens to be different. What I also find disturbing is that any manufacturer can offer Cup tires as an option and therefore brag about the subsequent lap times. Cars like a GT3, CGT, CSL and the like are basically track cars first and street cars second. Whether or not they are used that way isn't the point. Lastly, I would really like to know how many owners will opt for the Cup tires over PS2; even if offered in all countries. I know that I won't and would bet that the vast majority wouldn't either. Last edited by devo; 09-22-2007 at 02:01 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 01:58 PM | #76 |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Thanks for the info. Are you saying this guy has been doing every single test for the past, say 3-4 years?
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 02:03 PM | #77 |
Moderator / European Editor
1494
Rep 6,755
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 02:12 PM | #78 |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Interesting. That does take the variance associated with the driver out of the equation for the most part then--at least when Superauto times are considered in relation to each other.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 02:18 PM | #79 |
Captain
196
Rep 657
Posts |
Funny people mention the 7.57 min for RS4. Let me tell you how this rumour started. Erik, the guy behind RS6.com, was visiting N-ring and there he met the RS4 driver and then asked him what time he achieved. The time was never verified and isn't an official time by Audi.
The time is pointless to talk about, just like the rumour that M5 did N-ring in 7.52 min. Those two times has never been verified and neither Audi and BMW are using those as official times. Internet is amazing, a word on rs6.com and its spreading like an fire in a dry wood. Sportauto times are the only one I trust. Its the most honest and fair source out there. We have it on paper and we can also see what speed the car had and so on. Factory times doesnt mean much to me, its just carmakers trying to brag about their cars. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 02:28 PM | #80 | |||||
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Does anybody know if the magazine in question at least attempts to normalize their results? Quote:
The reason why stock tires should be the norm is that switching them makes for a hopelessly complicated comparision. As an example, my guess would be that the Z06 would benefit a good deal more from a switch to Cups than a Porsche Turbo, since the runflats on the Vette are an amazing weak spot on the car. Ever try one? They're a euphoric but scary ride. Quote:
Quote:
Bruce Edit: Ok, I just caught up on the string, and it seems that the magazine in question does indeed seem to be careful about their testing. In that case, I'm thinking maybe a half-second per minute as the accuracy, or a little less. |
|||||
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 02:37 PM | #81 | |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Quote:
I was making a false assumption here. Based on South's info, appearently, the same guy has been doing the tests for the past 10 years! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 03:00 PM | #82 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
Taking into consideration that even a PS2 may not be a PS2 when it comes as factory equipment on a number of cars, but something a little different, then I can't imagine any kind of an intelligent discussion that yields anything you can hang your hat on - except perhaps a Falken Azenis 615 will stick better than a snow tire. Bruce |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 03:26 PM | #83 | |
Major General
374
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Quote:
With all due respect to all of us, most of what goes on here is not particularly intelligent to begin with. My take is that we all are mainly shooting crap to pass time until this car becomes available. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 05:48 PM | #84 |
Lieutenant
204
Rep 461
Posts |
[QUOTE=southlight;1437886]The PS2 tires that come standard with the M3 are sport tires which are still fully drivable on wet roads. Semi R tires are even more performance orientated, which amongst others is achieved by reduced tire tread pattern. It's more slick like. .........
Many thanks... you are better than Wikipedia:-) ciao |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 06:24 PM | #85 | |
New Member
0
Rep 8
Posts |
Quote:
But yes 7:58 was driven by an amacing driver called frank stippler. 10 seconds different on a track of around 20 km long from a real pro driver to a autosport driver, sounds pretty ok. Let the new m3 drive by some of those people and there will be the 7:55 or less easily. We, and i assume most of use are amateur drivers, witch from time to time goes on the track, just cant amagine how thos pro drivers are ripping. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 06:33 PM | #86 | |
Private
0
Rep 65
Posts |
Quote:
there are plenty of components on a car that are easily changed that can aid performance, even things as simple as alignment angles. please dont give me the bullshit about how tires are cheating and they dont count. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 07:26 PM | #87 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Not really
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2007, 08:03 PM | #88 | |
Colonel
755
Rep 2,736
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|