C&D Winter Tire Comparison 11-09

GregW / Oregon · 10-30-2009, 10:13 AM

Good article in the current issue of Car & Driver testing different categories of winter tires on snow. It really helps explain the tradeoffs between:

- Ultra-High Performance All-Season
- All-Season
- Performance Winter
- Snow & Ice

chris s · 10-30-2009, 10:27 AM

thanks!

Radiation Joe · 10-30-2009, 10:52 AM

Excellent article. Thanks, Greg. I always wondered if my choice of PA2s over a more serious snow tire was justified. Looks like I made the right choice. I usually noticed that if the PA2s were having problems, the snow was too deep for my car, anyway. The weakest moments for them have been when there was a lot of ice.

frenchM3dreamer · 10-30-2009, 12:13 PM

Thanks for this article! it also makes me feel more comfortable about my PA3s... i do feel like they could be more efficient on snow / ice, but when it comes to dry cold pavement performance they largely out-perform my OEM no-season Goodyear... (remember i dont drive a M3 yet

)
at the same time, i've never driven "real" winter tires so i cant really compare their limits on snow / ice...

Thanks again,
Pat

signes · 10-30-2009, 12:23 PM

Nice article, does a good job of explaining the degree of improvement to more dedicated snows and the penalty in dry conditions. I still love my "snow and ice" tires, having come from the performance category you just cannot believe how much of a difference there is in the snow. Worth the tradeoff of poorer dry performance for me, especially in the mountains here..

mkoesel · 11-10-2009, 05:12 AM

Nice article. Thanks for scanning, Greg. I think I may put "Snow and Ice" tires on the 335i this year and see how they compare to the PA2's I have on the M3.

GregW / Oregon · 11-18-2009, 09:17 PM

Here's a new test from The Tire Rack on Ultra High Performance All Season tires. On ice & snow, the Continentals are clearly superior to the others when tested on E90s in Sweden.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/....jsp?ttid=124&

JCtx · 11-18-2009, 10:51 PM

I started a thread about those trade-offs, but asked mods to delete it and post my comments here instead. I was worried about cold performance of the PS2s, but I have no reason to be, as the 'ultra-high-performance' all-season tires perform MUCH better than the others in both dry and wet conditions even at 23º, which my car might never see. And it makes sense, as softer compounds grip better, even in the cold. Obviously the trade-off is when dealing with 'snow, slush, and ice'. Now I know 'wet and dry' is inversely proportional to 'slush, snow, and ice' when talking about the different tire categories.

So no, I'm not going to sell my PS2s until they wear out, but being an owner who will never track his car, my next tire will be an 'ultra-high-performance' all-season for many reasons: quieter, longer lasting, almost as capable as a summer tire, and with a bit of all-season capability. They might be better riding as well, but the PS2s are not bad. Pilot sport A/Ss should have been the standard tire on this car IMO, with PS2s a no-cost option (or similar tires from other brands); not everybody lives in SoCal

.

signes · 11-18-2009, 11:25 PM

Thanks Greg, pretty interesting. For those looking at snows, they also have a review of a few studless snow tires:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=122

Kind of limited in terms of brands, but I found the most interesting comment to be about optimal wheel slip to achieve peak traction in the snow/ice. Their data shows that can occur at 45% slip, well above the point where traction control kicks in. Support my real world experience but god to see supporting data.

10-30-2009, 10:13 AM	#1
GregW / Oregon Commander-In-Chief 2122 Rep 8,923 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lake Oswego, OR iTrader: (3) Garage List 2023 M2 Coupe [9.83] 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 [7.25]	C&D Winter Tire Comparison 11-09 Good article in the current issue of Car & Driver testing different categories of winter tires on snow. It really helps explain the tradeoffs between: - Ultra-High Performance All-Season - All-Season - Performance Winter - Snow & Ice __________________ Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
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10-30-2009, 10:27 AM	#2
chris s Major General 1250 Rep 6,912 Posts Drives: 2022 Dravit G80 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New York iTrader: (12)	thanks! __________________ 2022 Dravit/Fiona M3cx - Dinan midpipe w/VC, NW Carbonhaus CF, AST Springs, FC Spacers...more to come! 2016 Indi F80 M3 - SMB\|Amaro \| Mode Carbon \| ESS \| Akra EVO \| KW HAS...SOLD 2012 MR e92 M3 DCT, ESS SC, Brembo BBK, BBS FI... GONE but not forgotten! 2008 AW e92 M3 6MT, ESS SC, BBS LM's...SOLD!
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10-30-2009, 10:52 AM	#3
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	Excellent article. Thanks, Greg. I always wondered if my choice of PA2s over a more serious snow tire was justified. Looks like I made the right choice. I usually noticed that if the PA2s were having problems, the snow was too deep for my car, anyway. The weakest moments for them have been when there was a lot of ice.
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10-30-2009, 12:13 PM	#4
frenchM3dreamer Captain 8 Rep 784 Posts Drives: 08 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GTP Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB iTrader: (0)	Thanks for this article! it also makes me feel more comfortable about my PA3s... i do feel like they could be more efficient on snow / ice, but when it comes to dry cold pavement performance they largely out-perform my OEM no-season Goodyear... (remember i dont drive a M3 yet ) at the same time, i've never driven "real" winter tires so i cant really compare their limits on snow / ice... Thanks again, Pat
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10-30-2009, 12:23 PM	#5
signes Brigadier General 199 Rep 4,318 Posts Drives: 991 GT3 RS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Living at (almost...) 9k iTrader: (5)	Nice article, does a good job of explaining the degree of improvement to more dedicated snows and the penalty in dry conditions. I still love my "snow and ice" tires, having come from the performance category you just cannot believe how much of a difference there is in the snow. Worth the tradeoff of poorer dry performance for me, especially in the mountains here..
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11-10-2009, 05:12 AM	#6
mkoesel Moderator 7512 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	Nice article. Thanks for scanning, Greg. I think I may put "Snow and Ice" tires on the 335i this year and see how they compare to the PA2's I have on the M3.
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11-18-2009, 09:17 PM	#7
GregW / Oregon Commander-In-Chief 2122 Rep 8,923 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lake Oswego, OR iTrader: (3) Garage List 2023 M2 Coupe [9.83] 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 [7.25]	Another test... Here's a new test from The Tire Rack on Ultra High Performance All Season tires. On ice & snow, the Continentals are clearly superior to the others when tested on E90s in Sweden. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/....jsp?ttid=124& __________________ Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
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11-18-2009, 10:51 PM	#8
JCtx Major General 258 Rep 5,012 Posts Drives: No BMW yet Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso TX iTrader: (0)	I started a thread about those trade-offs, but asked mods to delete it and post my comments here instead. I was worried about cold performance of the PS2s, but I have no reason to be, as the 'ultra-high-performance' all-season tires perform MUCH better than the others in both dry and wet conditions even at 23º, which my car might never see. And it makes sense, as softer compounds grip better, even in the cold. Obviously the trade-off is when dealing with 'snow, slush, and ice'. Now I know 'wet and dry' is inversely proportional to 'slush, snow, and ice' when talking about the different tire categories. So no, I'm not going to sell my PS2s until they wear out, but being an owner who will never track his car, my next tire will be an 'ultra-high-performance' all-season for many reasons: quieter, longer lasting, almost as capable as a summer tire, and with a bit of all-season capability. They might be better riding as well, but the PS2s are not bad. Pilot sport A/Ss should have been the standard tire on this car IMO, with PS2s a no-cost option (or similar tires from other brands); not everybody lives in SoCal .
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11-18-2009, 11:25 PM	#9
signes Brigadier General 199 Rep 4,318 Posts Drives: 991 GT3 RS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Living at (almost...) 9k iTrader: (5)	Thanks Greg, pretty interesting. For those looking at snows, they also have a review of a few studless snow tires: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=122 Kind of limited in terms of brands, but I found the most interesting comment to be about optimal wheel slip to achieve peak traction in the snow/ice. Their data shows that can occur at 45% slip, well above the point where traction control kicks in. Support my real world experience but god to see supporting data.
	Appreciate 0 Quote