M3 V8 smoothness

Sticky · 03-11-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTM

It's little rough/vibrates on 1000-2000 rpm range.
But it is first V8 I ever had, so I don't know.
Definitely much smoother than other cars I had/drove...

I know S65 has different firing order than other BMW V8s tho.

Probably due to being built on the V10 which does not have a traditional firing order.

duk · 03-11-2009, 07:46 PM

smooth like my buttocks

dcstep · 03-11-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Probably due to being built on the V10 which does not have a traditional firing order.

Could be, but I bet the decision was made based on the combination of power potential and sound. Each firing order has a distinctive sound. Does anyone here know how many potential balanced firing orders there are for V8s?

Dave

T Bone · 03-11-2009, 08:14 PM

BMW made a couple of design choices for the S65.... They chose a cross-plane crank with relatively heavy counter weights. And they tune the engine to have one of the flatest torque curve available for a naturally aspirated car. Both of these things contributes to the S65's smoothness.

It is the linear power delivery that really adds to the perception of smoothness....i.e. not lumpy like some V8s.

Still, I wonder if a flat-crank would have been better....the engine would rev faster and sound like a banshee out of hell but would be a bit rougher.

The S85 V10 also uses counterweights instead of balance shafts to smooth out the engine, it too is buttery smooth but VTEC kicks in at around 5500 rpm

alpineweissM3 · 03-11-2009, 08:17 PM

As the others have stated, the V8 is very smooth. I don't, however, believe it is as smooth as the inline 6 in my prior e46.

But believe me, I'm not complaining!

Paddy · 03-11-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpineweissM3

As the others have stated, the V8 is very smooth. I don't, however, believe it is as smooth as the inline 6 in my prior e46.

But believe me, I'm not complaining!

+1

Definitely not as smooth as the I6 in my 330i E90. Also I don't find it that smooth in the low rpm range, but is definitely very nice above 3K rpm.

Overall the car is very torquey (not sure how to spell that) makes a lot more clunking and clicking noises that are especially noticable at low RPM (compared to the I6 E90) so it definitely feels less smooth in that range.

lincoln · 03-11-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duk

smooth like my buttocks

You must be Asian.

Sticky · 03-11-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Bone

BMW made a couple of design choices for the S65.... They chose a cross-plane crank with relatively heavy counter weights. And they tune the engine to have one of the flatest torque curve available for a naturally aspirated car. Both of these things contributes to the S65's smoothness.

It is the linear power delivery that really adds to the perception of smoothness....i.e. not lumpy like some V8s.

Still, I wonder if a flat-crank would have been better....the engine would rev faster and sound like a banshee out of hell but would be a bit rougher.

The S85 V10 also uses counterweights instead of balance shafts to smooth out the engine, it too is buttery smooth but VTEC kicks in at around 5500 rpm

V10 is also cross plane, and since the V8 is also 90 degrees, you have the crank you do. You can have a 90 degree flat-plane crank, but I believe the degree of the crankpins would have to be different. Either way, it would require a re-design.

A flat crank would make it sound like a Ferrari but I can't think of a BMW motor that uses a flat plane crank.

oneginee · 03-11-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I don't know what BMW were thinking when they decided not to include the shift lights on the manual M3.

I think you have to spin this around, they were probably thinking that the customers who'd buy a DCT could probably use some extra "assistance"...
or said differently BMW has a slighlty higher opinion of the 6MT driver's skills than DCT ?

Mr Tonka · 03-11-2009, 10:40 PM

not nearly as smooth as the E36 or E46 I6s. Not even close.

Under load, the V8 is nice, at idle it's like sitting in a pick up. But still much smoother than any Merc i've driven.

Now, before everyone gets their panties in a twist, i've been driving M3s since 1995 and for the 6 years prior to that i was driving Supras. So i'm VERY used to the silkiness of the I6 that the OP is talking about. Compared to that, NO V8 i've ever experienced has come close...including the M3 V8.

Sticky · 03-11-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP0WER

not nearly as smooth as the E36 or E46 I6s. Not even close.

Under load, the V8 is nice, at idle it's like sitting in a pick up. But still much smoother than any Merc i've driven.

Now, before everyone gets their panties in a twist, i've been driving M3s since 1995 and for the 6 years prior to that i was driving Supras. So i'm VERY used to the silkiness of the I6 that the OP is talking about. Compared to that, NO V8 i've ever experienced has come close...including the M3 V8.

I disagree, the M3 I6 at higher revs was not as smooth, probably due to the cam vibration at that speed. It just did not have the same finesse.

The idle I will concede, but through the top of the rev range, no way.

Mr Tonka · 03-11-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

I disagree, the M3 I6 at higher revs was not as smooth, probably due to the cam vibration at that speed. It just did not have the same finesse.

The idle I will concede, but through the top of the rev range, no way.

I suppose i can agree with that, above 6k the E46 was a little raspy feeling. But the same can not be said for the E36. That car could sit at 200 RPM below revlimiter and would be smooth as silk.

drey · 03-12-2009, 01:06 AM

Smooth? Yeah, you could say that. It's a V8 that redlines at 8300 rpm, fer cryin' out loud. If it wasn't smooth as silk it would be scattered all over the road.

In all seriousness, once I test drove the V8 there was no going back...

rbk1115 · 03-12-2009, 02:20 AM

I would have to say that the S52B32US in my old E36 M3 was smoother than the S85B40 in my E90 M3. Idling was definitely smoother in the I6. The only other BMW V8 that I have ever driven on was the M62TUB44 in my parents' E38 740i. That V8 was just about as smooth as the I6 at idle and WOT. Regardless... I'm enjoying my first new V8!

spyderco10 · 03-12-2009, 03:14 AM

the sounds that come out of this engine is indescribable, and is highly addicting. it's a lesson in restraint each time i hit the road

MrHarris · 03-12-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

I disagree, the M3 I6 at higher revs was not as smooth, probably due to the cam vibration at that speed. It just did not have the same finesse.

The idle I will concede, but through the top of the rev range, no way.

I find the S65 much more smooth compared to the S54 in almost every way. Could also be the e92 chassis is better which equates to a smoother car overall.

kmac1980 · 03-12-2009, 09:47 AM

I think this is very subjective, as to "why" you feel the V8 is smooth in this car... Lots has to do with sound-proofing, anti-vibration technology in the chassis/engine mounts.

Sit in a lexus GS or caddy DTS with the V6 or v8, you hardly feel like the engine is even running at idle or under medium load.... how much of this has to with the actual engine being smooth or the fact the engine is so far removed from the cabin you perceive it to be ultra-smooth?

T Bone · 03-12-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

V10 is also cross plane, and since the V8 is also 90 degrees, you have the crank you do. You can have a 90 degree flat-plane crank, but I believe the degree of the crankpins would have to be different. Either way, it would require a re-design.

A flat crank would make it sound like a Ferrari but I can't think of a BMW motor that uses a flat plane crank.

Yup agreed. The S85 has a cross plane crank but it doesn't have a balancer shaft that you would should find in a V10.

I would love to hear a BMW V8 with a flat crank at 8400 rpm....

We should look at BMWs racing engines, the P series..... I would like to think there would be flat plane crank there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmac1980

I think this is very subjective, as to "why" you feel the V8 is smooth in this car... Lots has to do with sound-proofing, anti-vibration technology in the chassis/engine mounts.

Sit in a lexus GS or caddy DTS with the V6 or v8, you hardly feel like the engine is even running at idle or under medium load.... how much of this has to with the actual engine being smooth or the fact the engine is so far removed from the cabin you perceive it to be ultra-smooth?

Look at Nissan's VQ series, it could be cross-marketed as a vibrator. No matter what the sound deadening or chassis, engines have inherent qualities with the choice of the number of cylinder and layouts.

V12s, I6s being on top of the pecking order. V6s and I4s being natural vibrators.

gadget · 03-12-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skim

Hi, peepz.
I've been lurking this forum for a few months now.
I currently have a 07 Z4 coupe, but I want to get a M3 in a year or 2, so just doing my research early. =)
I could get pretty much all info I wanted, but I wanted to get some feedbacks from actual M3 owners.
I just love the silky inline6 engines. I had the first gen IS300 (non-turbo version of Supra inline-6), 3ers, etc. I had a s2000 before as well and some of non-inline 6 engines, so I know how smooth inline design really is.
A
Thanks!

i had an IS300 and an 06 Z4, the M3 is, without at doubt, smother than those cars ever where.

Dascamel · 03-12-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drey

Smooth? Yeah, you could say that. It's a V8 that redlines at 8300 rpm, fer cryin' out loud. If it wasn't smooth as silk it would be scattered all over the road.

In all seriousness, once I test drove the V8 there was no going back...

+1

Under 2500 rpm, car just doesn't like it.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Bone

Yup agreed. The S85 has a cross plane crank but it doesn't have a balancer shaft that you would should find in a V10.

I would love to hear a BMW V8 with a flat crank at 8400 rpm....

We should look at BMWs racing engines, the P series..... I would like to think there would be flat plane crank there.

Look at Nissan's VQ series, it could be cross-marketed as a vibrator. No matter what the sound deadening or chassis, engines have inherent qualities with the choice of the number of cylinder and layouts.

V12s, I6s being on top of the pecking order. V6s and I4s being natural vibrators.

Well, lets find out what the P series race motor is using. You posted some good info somewhere but we should be able to find the crank info. I doubt it is flat-plane, but would love to confirm.

T Bone · 03-12-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Well, lets find out what the P series race motor is using. You posted some good info somewhere but we should be able to find the crank info. I doubt it is flat-plane, but would love to confirm.

Remember the P series also includes the F1 engines.... I will take a snoop later tonight.

03-11-2009, 07:46 PM	#24
duk ///M 158 Rep 3,195 Posts Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	smooth like my buttocks __________________ 2011.5 AW/FR E92 M3 6MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2009, 08:14 PM	#26
T Bone Brigadier General 532 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The land where we kill baby seals iTrader: (0)	BMW made a couple of design choices for the S65.... They chose a cross-plane crank with relatively heavy counter weights. And they tune the engine to have one of the flatest torque curve available for a naturally aspirated car. Both of these things contributes to the S65's smoothness. It is the linear power delivery that really adds to the perception of smoothness....i.e. not lumpy like some V8s. Still, I wonder if a flat-crank would have been better....the engine would rev faster and sound like a banshee out of hell but would be a bit rougher. The S85 V10 also uses counterweights instead of balance shafts to smooth out the engine, it too is buttery smooth but VTEC kicks in at around 5500 rpm __________________ "Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2009, 08:17 PM	#27
alpineweissM3 I love my beautiful wife! 22 Rep 628 Posts Drives: e90 ///M Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (0)	As the others have stated, the V8 is very smooth. I don't, however, believe it is as smooth as the inline 6 in my prior e46. But believe me, I'm not complaining!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2009, 10:40 PM	#32
Mr Tonka is probably out riding. 6058 Rep 2,292 Posts Drives: Something Italian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sweatypeninsula iTrader: (0)	not nearly as smooth as the E36 or E46 I6s. Not even close. Under load, the V8 is nice, at idle it's like sitting in a pick up. But still much smoother than any Merc i've driven. Now, before everyone gets their panties in a twist, i've been driving M3s since 1995 and for the 6 years prior to that i was driving Supras. So i'm VERY used to the silkiness of the I6 that the OP is talking about. Compared to that, NO V8 i've ever experienced has come close...including the M3 V8. __________________ "There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 01:06 AM	#35
drey Second Lieutenant 21 Rep 222 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan, JZB/BB Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Norcal iTrader: (0)	Smooth? Yeah, you could say that. It's a V8 that redlines at 8300 rpm, fer cryin' out loud. If it wasn't smooth as silk it would be scattered all over the road. In all seriousness, once I test drove the V8 there was no going back...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 02:20 AM	#36
rbk1115 Lieutenant 14 Rep 527 Posts Drives: Acuras & BMWs Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 Mazda3 i Touri ... [0.00] 2013 BMW 535i Sedan [0.00] 2009 BMW M3 Sedan [0.00]	I would have to say that the S52B32US in my old E36 M3 was smoother than the S85B40 in my E90 M3. Idling was definitely smoother in the I6. The only other BMW V8 that I have ever driven on was the M62TUB44 in my parents' E38 740i. That V8 was just about as smooth as the I6 at idle and WOT. Regardless... I'm enjoying my first new V8! __________________ 2009 BMW M3 Sedan 2013 BMW 535i M Sport Sedan 2014 Mazda3 i Touring Sedan
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 03:14 AM	#37
spyderco10 Colonel 63 Rep 2,426 Posts Drives: AW E92 M3 6MT Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Honolulu, HI iTrader: (0)	the sounds that come out of this engine is indescribable, and is highly addicting. it's a lesson in restraint each time i hit the road __________________ “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 09:47 AM	#39
kmac1980 Major 35 Rep 1,039 Posts Drives: '19 540xi Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: toronto iTrader: (1)	I think this is very subjective, as to "why" you feel the V8 is smooth in this car... Lots has to do with sound-proofing, anti-vibration technology in the chassis/engine mounts. Sit in a lexus GS or caddy DTS with the V6 or v8, you hardly feel like the engine is even running at idle or under medium load.... how much of this has to with the actual engine being smooth or the fact the engine is so far removed from the cabin you perceive it to be ultra-smooth?
	Appreciate 0 Quote