DIY: JL Audio XD700/5 + Rainbow SLC NG + Earthquake SWS-8

Jaya3666 · 10-25-2010, 06:24 PM

Thanks 808guy, Technic and quality sound. I appreciate how all of you take time to give advice.
I'll try those steps and hope it's not a defective amp. I've used BSWs, SWS8s (which didn't prodoce the whining sound with the oem amp) and the JL Audio XD600/6. Both technic'c harness and the amp had RCA female plugs. And I couldn't find adapters like MudPhud so I used short RCA connectors which were not shielded, hopefully thats the problem. You'll notice MudPhud's set up also has the power and ground wires from the amp running right next to the RCA cables. Take note that the whining sound is not obvious when the music's on, only when everything off. It sounds like a tiny electric motor in the boot in sync with the engine's RPM.

Jaya3666 · 10-25-2010, 06:32 PM

808MGuy, what do you mean by common ground input? And I just saw MudPhuds install pix and realises that he appears to have routed the power and ground cables away from the RCAs. He's also using thicker wires which I suppose are magnetically shielded. ,ine are 4AWG but have an ordinary plastic sheath.

Technic · 10-25-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaya3666

Thanks 808guy, Technic and quality sound. I appreciate how all of you take time to give advice.
I'll try those steps and hope it's not a defective amp. I've used BSWs, SWS8s (which didn't prodoce the whining sound with the oem amp) and the JL Audio XD600/6. Both technic'c harness and the amp had RCA female plugs. And I couldn't find adapters like MudPhud so I used short RCA connectors which were not shielded, hopefully thats the problem. You'll notice MudPhud's set up also has the power and ground wires from the amp running right next to the RCA cables. Take note that the whining sound is not obvious when the music's on, only when everything off. It sounds like a tiny electric motor in the boot in sync with the engine's RPM.

I thought that you got the G6600 but I see now that you are using the XD...

808MGuy · 10-25-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaya3666

808MGuy, what do you mean by common ground input? And I just saw MudPhuds install pix and realises that he appears to have routed the power and ground cables away from the RCAs. He's also using thicker wires which I suppose are magnetically shielded. ,ine are 4AWG but have an ordinary plastic sheath.

The L and R channels of the line input share their ground. In a balanced differential input, the grounds are not shared. You wouldn't be able to tell if it can or cannot accept a balanced differential input just by looking at it. You would need to go through the manual to see if it does or not since it is an internal thing. The manual might not always say either so at that point a call to the manufacturer or the equipment supplier might be the only sure way. As the others have said, JL does accept balanced diff so that should not be the case if you're using JL. Could be a defective amp or possibly a defective interconnect that you're using to connect the harness to the amp.

Jaya3666 · 10-25-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

I thought that you got the G6600 but I see now that you are using the XD...

Yes, took your advice. It's better, compact, fits in oem space. I think it's a newer model.

Technic · 10-25-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaya3666

Yes, took your advice. It's better, compact, fits in oem space. I think it's a newer model.

Try moving the RCA inputs around to see if the noise moves with the RCA/adapter used. If not then one output of the amp may be acting up.

mkPOTO · 10-25-2010, 09:20 PM

very nice, subscribed for when i get a m

MudPhud · 10-26-2010, 09:13 PM

adc,

I'm glad you're finding tweeter settings that are more and more to your liking. My original goal over the summer was to boost the bass which is so lacking in the base/standard audio. After reading threads I realized that just replacing the OEM subwoofers with SWS-8Xs wouldn't be enough (since they're inefficient and need extra power). So I knew I would have to get an aftermarket amp. Then I thought, well, since the amp is new, might as well upgrade all the speakers, too. Right now, the bass is definitely improved, voices and notes are extremely clear, and quiet passages are silent. Did the hisses and pops you mention exist with your OEM amp, or just the aftermarket one? And does it matter what volume the headunit is set at? I, personally, don't hear any new audio noises, hisses, crackles, or pops. Is your 'Remote In' via Technic's harness/relay or are you tapped in at the ignition?

99% of the time I'm listening to MP3s via a USB flashdrive. Is there any way to have the OEM headunit scroll the display so that the whole title appears as opposed to just the first fifteen characters?

quality_sound,

Yeah, I'm definitely stretching the lower limits of the 4" and 5.25" drivers, but I can't shake myself from the psychological notion of 'gypping' myself of low notes since the SWS-8Xs aren't great at midbass either. Even at the expense of sound accuracy, I figured that as long as I fall within the manufacturer's frequency specs that I'm not harming the speakers. Is this correct?

Jaya3666,

These are the 'StreetWires' male-to-male RCA adapters I'm using:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=263-386
Tons of other folks make them, too, but just in case you were wondering. The 4 AWG amplifier wires are from 'Kicker' (09PK4 kit). I don't think they're shielded. Good luck pinpointing that whine. Which ground location did you choose? The OEM post situated on the left rear wheel well (Fig 14) is conveniently located.

quality_sound · 10-27-2010, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudPhud

quality_sound,

Yeah, I'm definitely stretching the lower limits of the 4" and 5.25" drivers, but I can't shake myself from the psychological notion of 'gypping' myself of low notes since the SWS-8Xs aren't great at midbass either. Even at the expense of sound accuracy, I figured that as long as I fall within the manufacturer's frequency specs that I'm not harming the speakers. Is this correct?

Jaya3666,

I know you probably don't want to but I'd add a trunk sub and put the OEM subs back in and use them as midbasses. Even a decent 10 will give you more quality low end than those SWSs.

I don't think he has a grounding issue because he only has noise on the rear speakers. I'm leaning towards a speaker terminal shorting out on something,

Jaya3666 · 10-27-2010, 09:18 AM

Thanks Technic, quality sound, 808MGuy and MudPhud,
I wired it just like you MudPhud, the ground too. Anyway, I went to an audio installer and he used some kind of sheath over the RCAs and even stuck some kind of material over part of technic's harness, and I moved my power wire away from the RCAs, and the sound has reduced tremendously. I also reduced the input sensitivity. It's barely audible now. MudPhud in your photos it doesn't look like you're using short cables but just adapters, ie. Plugs or something. I'm looking for that, that may reduce interference. Anyway, thanks everyone, I'm very happy with the system now, although I must admit that the 4 inch Focals are looking very good. What do you guys think, would they be much better then the BSWs? They're expensive over here though. I think they're K2s or something. Their magnets are smaller than the BSWs but I'm sure you guys are going to tell me that it's not the size that matters but how you use it.

Jaya3666 · 10-27-2010, 09:21 AM

MudPhud, sorry, I just saw the adapter you use, yes that's what I need. I'll try to get that

quality_sound · 10-27-2010, 09:27 AM

There is a possibility that you're picking up RF but unless you have a damaged RCA it should show up on all 4 channels or none of them.

Do me a favor, go out and swap your front and rear RCAs and tell me if the noise moves to the front.

quality_sound · 10-27-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaya3666

Thanks Technic, quality sound, 808MGuy and MudPhud,
I wired it just like you MudPhud, the ground too. Anyway, I went to an audio installer and he used some kind of sheath over the RCAs and even stuck some kind of material over part of technic's harness, and I moved my power wire away from the RCAs, and the sound has reduced tremendously. I also reduced the input sensitivity. It's barely audible now. MudPhud in your photos it doesn't look like you're using short cables but just adapters, ie. Plugs or something. I'm looking for that, that may reduce interference. Anyway, thanks everyone, I'm very happy with the system now, although I must admit that the 4 inch Focals are looking very good. What do you guys think, would they be much better then the BSWs? They're expensive over here though. I think they're K2s or something. Their magnets are smaller than the BSWs but I'm sure you guys are going to tell me that it's not the size that matters but how you use it.

Magnet size doesn't matter. If you have a light cone you don't need much motor to move it. Not to mention, neodymium motors are going to be MUCH smaller than a typical lead motor because it's much more powerful.

Jaya3666 · 10-27-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

There is a possibility that you're picking up RF but unless you have a damaged RCA it should show up on all 4 channels or none of them.

Do me a favor, go out and swap your front and rear RCAs and tell me if the noise moves to the front.

Ok, i'll do that in the morning and get back to you in 24 hrs. I have to tell you, because I couldn't find an adapter and no short RCAs, I made my own an I think that was the problem. When the audio guy took it apart and covered the wires in a sheath/tube, the sound reduced tremendously, but i'll do the swap and see.

adc · 10-27-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudPhud

adc,

I'm glad you're finding tweeter settings that are more and more to your liking. My original goal over the summer was to boost the bass which is so lacking in the base/standard audio. After reading threads I realized that just replacing the OEM subwoofers with SWS-8Xs wouldn't be enough (since they're inefficient and need extra power). So I knew I would have to get an aftermarket amp. Then I thought, well, since the amp is new, might as well upgrade all the speakers, too. Right now, the bass is definitely improved, voices and notes are extremely clear, and quiet passages are silent. Did the hisses and pops you mention exist with your OEM amp, or just the aftermarket one?

Just with the aftermarket.

Quote:

And does it matter what volume the headunit is set at?

Good question, I'll play with it.

Quote:

I, personally, don't hear any new audio noises, hisses, crackles, or pops.

Yeah, it's only when starting the car in my case - doesn't bother me that much...

Quote:

Is your 'Remote In' via Technic's harness/relay or are you tapped in at the ignition?

Via Technic's harness/relay.

Rob G · 10-29-2010, 10:40 PM

Many thanks to all. MudPhuds install is very well documented and his success gives me encouragement. I appreciate the discussions of the technical issues with bass reproduction and noise troublleshooting. I was last involved in this sort of thing in 1992-1994 when I dumped 30k into upgrading a Taurus SHO. My divorce came soon after. That car was stolen and wrecked, I swore I would henceforth be content with stock. But....

MudPhuds and ADC, I live in Baltimore and it would be great to get together. This is the right time of the year for a trip across the Bridge

adc · 11-01-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob G

MudPhuds and ADC, I live in Baltimore and it would be great to get together. This is the right time of the year for a trip across the Bridge

Doh, it's also one of the busiest times of the year at home for me...

quality_sound · 11-01-2010, 04:35 PM

Jaya - Any luck with that RCA swap?

Jaya3666 · 11-04-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Jaya - Any luck with that RCA swap?

Actually, after the RCAs were covered in the sheath/tubing I mentioned, and after I moved the power wire away from the RCAs, (a bit like the MudPhud photo) AND after I lowered the input sensitivity, the whinning has either gone or reduced below my engine sound. So swapping hasn't recreated the sound. I'm fairly certain it was just the proximity of those wires. Does that makes sense? Is that known to happen?
Anyway thanks to all for the advice.

quality_sound · 11-04-2010, 11:11 AM

Unless they're damaged, there is no reason to move the power cable away from the RCAs.

Lowering the sensitivity didn't fix the problem, it just made it quieter. It's like having the flu and taking medicine. You aren't cured, you just can't feel the effects. If you're happy with the end result that's ok, but the problem is still there. That would bother me to no end.

Turn the gain back up and swap the RCAs and let me know if the noise moves with the RCAs.

Jaya3666 · 11-04-2010, 11:54 AM

Ok, i'll give that a shot. Which wires would need to be damaged? You see, because I didn't have the RCA adapters, We fashioned a short male to male RCA cable from ordinary home RCA cables, if that was not done well wouldn't that be considered damaged enough for EMI to cause the RPM interference? So now those home cables are sheathed in some kind of tubing and I thought that's why the whining reduced (even before the input was turned down). Anyways, the flu and medicine story has entered my head and now I've got to test your theory.

quality_sound · 11-04-2010, 12:00 PM

Yes, a poorly or incorrectly constructed RCA can definitely be the problem.

10-25-2010, 06:24 PM	#23
Jaya3666 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kuala Lumpur iTrader: (0)	Whining Thanks 808guy, Technic and quality sound. I appreciate how all of you take time to give advice. I'll try those steps and hope it's not a defective amp. I've used BSWs, SWS8s (which didn't prodoce the whining sound with the oem amp) and the JL Audio XD600/6. Both technic'c harness and the amp had RCA female plugs. And I couldn't find adapters like MudPhud so I used short RCA connectors which were not shielded, hopefully thats the problem. You'll notice MudPhud's set up also has the power and ground wires from the amp running right next to the RCA cables. Take note that the whining sound is not obvious when the music's on, only when everything off. It sounds like a tiny electric motor in the boot in sync with the engine's RPM.
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10-25-2010, 06:32 PM	#24
Jaya3666 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kuala Lumpur iTrader: (0)	808MGuy, what do you mean by common ground input? And I just saw MudPhuds install pix and realises that he appears to have routed the power and ground cables away from the RCAs. He's also using thicker wires which I suppose are magnetically shielded. ,ine are 4AWG but have an ordinary plastic sheath.
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10-25-2010, 09:20 PM	#29
mkPOTO Mr. Nice Says Hello 636 Rep 16,662 Posts Drives: BMW M3 \| X5 xdrive 35i MSport Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (25) Garage List 2002 Lexus GS300 [0.00] 2008 BMW E92 M3 [5.58]	very nice, subscribed for when i get a m
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10-26-2010, 09:13 PM	#30
MudPhud New Member 9 Rep 28 Posts Drives: E90 M3 ZCP,E70 X5 V8,F15 X5 V8 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	adc, I'm glad you're finding tweeter settings that are more and more to your liking. My original goal over the summer was to boost the bass which is so lacking in the base/standard audio. After reading threads I realized that just replacing the OEM subwoofers with SWS-8Xs wouldn't be enough (since they're inefficient and need extra power). So I knew I would have to get an aftermarket amp. Then I thought, well, since the amp is new, might as well upgrade all the speakers, too. Right now, the bass is definitely improved, voices and notes are extremely clear, and quiet passages are silent. Did the hisses and pops you mention exist with your OEM amp, or just the aftermarket one? And does it matter what volume the headunit is set at? I, personally, don't hear any new audio noises, hisses, crackles, or pops. Is your 'Remote In' via Technic's harness/relay or are you tapped in at the ignition? 99% of the time I'm listening to MP3s via a USB flashdrive. Is there any way to have the OEM headunit scroll the display so that the whole title appears as opposed to just the first fifteen characters? quality_sound, Yeah, I'm definitely stretching the lower limits of the 4" and 5.25" drivers, but I can't shake myself from the psychological notion of 'gypping' myself of low notes since the SWS-8Xs aren't great at midbass either. Even at the expense of sound accuracy, I figured that as long as I fall within the manufacturer's frequency specs that I'm not harming the speakers. Is this correct? Jaya3666, These are the 'StreetWires' male-to-male RCA adapters I'm using: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=263-386 Tons of other folks make them, too, but just in case you were wondering. The 4 AWG amplifier wires are from 'Kicker' (09PK4 kit). I don't think they're shielded. Good luck pinpointing that whine. Which ground location did you choose? The OEM post situated on the left rear wheel well (Fig 14) is conveniently located. __________________ MudPhud 2017 BMW F15 X5 V8TT Space Gray \| Black/Oak 2011 BMW E90 M3 Le Mans Blue \| Black/Sycamore \| 6-speed \| Competition 2011 BMW E70 X5 V8TT Titanium Silver \| Black/Walnut 2002 BMW E46 330i Topaz Blue \| Gray/Aluminum \| 5-speed \| Sport (retired)
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10-27-2010, 09:18 AM	#32
Jaya3666 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kuala Lumpur iTrader: (0)	Thanks Technic, quality sound, 808MGuy and MudPhud, I wired it just like you MudPhud, the ground too. Anyway, I went to an audio installer and he used some kind of sheath over the RCAs and even stuck some kind of material over part of technic's harness, and I moved my power wire away from the RCAs, and the sound has reduced tremendously. I also reduced the input sensitivity. It's barely audible now. MudPhud in your photos it doesn't look like you're using short cables but just adapters, ie. Plugs or something. I'm looking for that, that may reduce interference. Anyway, thanks everyone, I'm very happy with the system now, although I must admit that the 4 inch Focals are looking very good. What do you guys think, would they be much better then the BSWs? They're expensive over here though. I think they're K2s or something. Their magnets are smaller than the BSWs but I'm sure you guys are going to tell me that it's not the size that matters but how you use it.
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10-27-2010, 09:21 AM	#33
Jaya3666 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kuala Lumpur iTrader: (0)	MudPhud, sorry, I just saw the adapter you use, yes that's what I need. I'll try to get that
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10-27-2010, 09:27 AM	#34
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	There is a possibility that you're picking up RF but unless you have a damaged RCA it should show up on all 4 channels or none of them. Do me a favor, go out and swap your front and rear RCAs and tell me if the noise moves to the front.
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10-29-2010, 10:40 PM	#38
Rob G Enlisted Member 1 Rep 41 Posts Drives: 2007 328i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Baltimore iTrader: (0)	Very impressive thread Many thanks to all. MudPhuds install is very well documented and his success gives me encouragement. I appreciate the discussions of the technical issues with bass reproduction and noise troublleshooting. I was last involved in this sort of thing in 1992-1994 when I dumped 30k into upgrading a Taurus SHO. My divorce came soon after. That car was stolen and wrecked, I swore I would henceforth be content with stock. But.... MudPhuds and ADC, I live in Baltimore and it would be great to get together. This is the right time of the year for a trip across the Bridge
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11-01-2010, 04:35 PM	#40
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Jaya - Any luck with that RCA swap?
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11-04-2010, 11:11 AM	#42
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Unless they're damaged, there is no reason to move the power cable away from the RCAs. Lowering the sensitivity didn't fix the problem, it just made it quieter. It's like having the flu and taking medicine. You aren't cured, you just can't feel the effects. If you're happy with the end result that's ok, but the problem is still there. That would bother me to no end. Turn the gain back up and swap the RCAs and let me know if the noise moves with the RCAs.
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11-04-2010, 11:54 AM	#43
Jaya3666 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kuala Lumpur iTrader: (0)	Ok, i'll give that a shot. Which wires would need to be damaged? You see, because I didn't have the RCA adapters, We fashioned a short male to male RCA cable from ordinary home RCA cables, if that was not done well wouldn't that be considered damaged enough for EMI to cause the RPM interference? So now those home cables are sheathed in some kind of tubing and I thought that's why the whining reduced (even before the input was turned down). Anyways, the flu and medicine story has entered my head and now I've got to test your theory.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-04-2010, 12:00 PM	#44
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Yes, a poorly or incorrectly constructed RCA can definitely be the problem.
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