Lease rates - are some people just getting sc*ewed?

[DefBringer]

So I've been contemplating a lease assumption versus new lease - looking around at a variety of resources such as this forum and leasetrader/swapalease, etc.

I am absolutely blown away at the huge discrepancies between what people are paying for these leases. I see some people saying they are paying $800 a month and others are paying $1300 a month...for the same car. A $500 a month difference (this is enough to lease a new Audi A4, by the way).

I understand some people might have made addt'l security deposits to drive down the money factor, but this still doesn't account for such wild variances.

I'm pretty certain I can get an '09 optioned out the door for ~$5k down and $1100 a month or less. How the hell can some of these people try to pawn off their used '08 M3's for more money than you can get a new one for?

[rainzoro]

i even saw 1400 per month in swaplease.com
no wonder why he needs a swap

[E90RWC]

Lease rates are bad bro for the 09 models.

Money factor is over .00250
Residuals are below 60%, you will get hit hard.

You can't possibly get an M3 for less than $1k a month now.

^ And that's a base model with NO DOWN.

[BMoney]

Originally Posted by E90RWC

Lease rates are bad bro for the 09 models.

Money factor is over .00250
Residuals are below 60%, you will get hit hard.

You can't possibly get an M3 for less than $1k a month now.

^ And that's a base model with NO DOWN.

That's false. I got my 08 back when the rates were worst than they are now (MF .00270, Residual 50%) and I'm paying $999 a month 36/12K a year for a $64,225 M3 and put $1600 total down. Paid $500 over invoice so I don't see how it's not possible to get one under 1K a month.

[Big Top Gt]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

So I've been contemplating a lease assumption versus new lease - looking around at a variety of resources such as this forum and leasetrader/swapalease, etc.

I am absolutely blown away at the huge discrepancies between what people are paying for these leases. I see some people saying they are paying $800 a month and others are paying $1300 a month...for the same car. A $500 a month difference (this is enough to lease a new Audi A4, by the way).

I understand some people might have made addt'l security deposits to drive down the money factor, but this still doesn't account for such wild variances.

I'm pretty certain I can get an '09 optioned out the door for ~$5k down and $1100 a month or less. How the hell can some of these people try to pawn off their used '08 M3's for more money than you can get a new one for?

You have to take people's worth with a grain of salt when they're discussing their payments.

Some people bought at different times and have more or less equipment, while others put down a big chunk of change to get the payment down.

Others simply lie about the payment, since there's no way to validate the claim.

I literally JUST hung up the phone with a local dealer. He quoted me a 36/15 lease with 1283 due at signing @ 1325.94 a month.

The MSRP was roughly 69k for a car with the Premium, Tech, PDC, SMG, 19" wheels, and the iPod/usb setup.

When I see people saying they're paying 800 a month with nothing down, it's got me seriously scratching my head to do the math.

36 months X 800 a month is only 28800 dollars in payments, which has to include tax and interest. This leaves you with somewhere between 40 and 50 thousand in residual money hanging over BMW's head. (Or whatever financial unit you're using.)

That means they bought the car with a near 58% residual. It could be possible, if they got in on some crazy lease incentive, but it doesn't seem likely.

On the other hand, a 7500 dollar discounted 2008 would leave you at 53% residual (assuming a 68000 car), so the numbers seem to be closing in on reality if you absolutely stole one.

Liars can figure but figures don't lie.

[BaLLzZz]

Everything you are saying is 1000% true and it just sucks but that's how the cookie crumbles. For instance I am having some trouble getting rid of my 08 335. But when I was shopping around I found 2 amazing deals and man did I wish I could have taken them. This is going back to about November.

1. 2008 e92 m3(cf roof) dct every option except premium sound something like 4k down $700 a month. It was a left over 08 inter blue on fox red beautiful car. I just couldn't do it I wish i did but happy I didn't.

2. 2008 e60 m5 same color on extended silverstone interior every option and a 6mt 5k down $850 a month OTD

Now I cant even get anywhere close to those numbers for either of those cars. But you know what im happy because I would have been in a hole I still have my 335 and that time of the year is approaching soon again. Believe me if you have the patience and know a few good dealers you can find steals especially in this economy.

Originally Posted by Big Top Gt

You have to take people's worth with a grain of salt when they're discussing their payments.

Some people bought at different times and have more or less equipment, while others put down a big chunk of change to get the payment down.

Others simply lie about the payment, since there's no way to validate the claim.

I literally JUST hung up the phone with a local dealer. He quoted me a 36/15 lease with 1283 due at signing @ 1325.94 a month.

The MSRP was roughly 69k for a car with the Premium, Tech, PDC, SMG, 19" wheels, and the iPod/usb setup.

When I see people saying they're paying 800 a month with nothing down, it's got me seriously scratching my head to do the math.

36 months X 800 a month is only 28800 dollars in payments, which has to include tax and interest. This leaves you with somewhere between 40 and 50 thousand in residual money hanging over BMW's head. (Or whatever financial unit you're using.)

That means they bought the car with a near 58% residual. It could be possible, if they got in on some crazy lease incentive, but it doesn't seem likely.

On the other hand, a 7500 dollar discounted 2008 would leave you at 53% residual (assuming a 68000 car), so the numbers seem to be closing in on reality if you absolutely stole one.

Liars can figure but figures don't lie.

[gobuffs]

Early adopters got screwed. People who bought the end of last year made the best deal. Those who are leasing now are getting no favors. MF at teh end of last year put the interest rates on leases at around 0.6%...compared to 6.9%+ when the new body style came out. IIRC the MF now puts the interest rate at 6-ish%. So, yes it is possible that there could be people with payments of $1400/month and some as little as $600 (maybe even a bit less- there were some crazy deals to move the verts). Deals the end of last year were in the $700-800/month range on the remaining 08s. I doubt you can get an 09 lease for under $1k without signifcant amount down.

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by E90RWC

Lease rates are bad bro for the 09 models.

Money factor is over .00250
Residuals are below 60%, you will get hit hard.

You can't possibly get an M3 for less than $1k a month now.

^ And that's a base model with NO DOWN.

Perhaps right now, this month...but there is no way that these money factors are going to remain so terrible. Historically M3s hold their value spectacularly well. Is it possible we could see 09 MFs improve later in the model year?

Maybe I am the odd man out, but just knowing that I would be paying $400-$500 more than the other guy for the same car would prevent me from leasing the car and simply buying it.

I don't believe that people are on here lying about their lease payments to sound cool.

[MeccaM3]

My dealer quoted me $1,300 a month to lease an 09 e92 M3 with a sticker of $68,775 with $5,000 down.

I bought it instead.

[nasa60]

BMWFS had incredible lease rates starting in mid October in order to get rid of all the 08's sitting on the dealer lots. I was leasing an 07 530i and had 4 more months but I decided to see what kind of deal I could get. I leased one of the Silverstone launch vehicles (MSRP $66945) at a ridiculous price on Oct 31 and they paid my last 3 lease payments on my 530i. My payment is only $681 (includes tax). I paid nothing down but I did put two security deposits on it to lower the MF to .00011.

For the 09 M3's, BMW drastically cut back on production to avoid the glut of cars this year. My local dealer had 6 08's setting on his lot almost all last year. He had 1 09 up until a month ago and it is gone now. Personally, there is no way I would lease an M3 (or any car for that matter) at the current rates. Just search for a low-payment lease that someone wants transfer.

[DarthDingo]

Originally Posted by nasa60

BMWFS had incredible lease rates starting in mid October in order to get rid of all the 08's sitting on the dealer lots. I was leasing an 07 530i and had 4 more months but I decided to see what kind of deal I could get. I leased one of the Silverstone launch vehicles (MSRP $66945) at a ridiculous price on Oct 31 and they paid my last 3 lease payments on my 530i. My payment is only $681 (includes tax). I paid nothing down but I did put two security deposits on it to lower the MF to .00011.

For the 09 M3's, BMW drastically cut back on production to avoid the glut of cars this year. My local dealer had 6 08's setting on his lot almost all last year. He had 1 09 up until a month ago and it is gone now. Personally, there is no way I would lease an M3 (or any car for that matter) at the current rates. Just search for a low-payment lease that someone wants transfer.

You paying only $681 per month for your 08 M3 lease ? And no money down ? If am understanding this correctly that is a ridiculous deal

[nasa60]

Originally Posted by DarthDingo

You paying only $681 per month for your 08 M3 lease ? And no money down ? If am understanding this correctly that is a ridiculous deal

Yes, timing is everything. I wasn't even considering an M3 but the price was too good to pass up. When you combine below invoice pricing with near zero % interest rate, you get incredibly low lease payments on a $68k car.

I don't see BMWFS doing it again this year because they kept supply down. I saw others get even better deals than I got back in the January/February timeframe.

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by nasa60

Yes, timing is everything. I wasn't even considering an M3 but the price was too good to pass up. When you combine below invoice pricing with near zero % interest rate, you get incredibly low lease payments on a $68k car.

I don't see BMWFS doing it again this year because they kept supply down. I saw others get even better deals than I got back in the January/February timeframe.

Ahh, memories. Last winter was the perfect storm for BMW and the perfect time to lease one. The lease deals last winter were unlike anything I've ever seen or heard of, particularly with M3s, 335s, and 135s. Bad economy + oversupply of cars = crazy values.

I leased a 135 convertible right at the end of February and felt like I got a really good deal on it. The dealer I took delivery from had a $79K loaded E93 that he had marked down to net cost or a little below, and with the under 1% money factor a 36/10 lease would have been right at $760 a month plus tax with no cap cost reduction (standard inceptions). He had the car advertised on Bimmerfest at that price and it still took him more than 2 months to move it. I think even people who were financially secure were (and to some extent still are) hesitant to make any commitments. Plus having to deal with the stigma of rolling up in a new BMW during a global financial meltdown wasn't really something that excited people.

I would have loved to have had that M3, but the 135 made more sense given my situation. I had spent all of 5 minutes behind the wheel of a 1, and had to travel 600 miles to get the car I wanted, but I figured that unless the whole world came to an end I could pretty easily get the lease assumed if I ended up hating the car. Needless to say that didn't happen, the car is great and and looking back on it I don't know why I debated so long.

I don't expect to see deals like that again, but I think they will get better this winter when the leftover cars need to be cleared out. That's the best time to lease IMO, the values are great and the fact that the car is a model year old already is BMW's problem, not mine or yours

Any change in the lease terms on M3s would be nice, I don't think they can get any worse than they are now. If I were in the market now I would also be looking for one of the fire sale cars.

[innovativeit]

I went by the dealership today looking to lease a 2009 M3 convertible with a sticker price of $80,570.

After a $4400 discount, 52% residual, .00260 money factor, and a $1455 a month lease payment for 3 years and 45,000 miles, I had to say no.

I can see why sales are down almost 30% year to date.

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by innovativeit

I went by the dealership today looking to lease a 2009 M3 convertible with a sticker price of $80,570.

After a $4400 discount, 52% residual, .00260 money factor, and a $1455 a month lease payment for 3 years and 45,000 miles, I had to say no.

I can see why sales are down almost 30% year to date.

I don't understand how anyone, anywhere would say yes to that deal. Here were the winter terms on the E93:

.00025 MF (yes, the interest rate was 90% less than now)
55% base 36/15 residual. (3 points higher, even at the end of the model year).

Obviously BMW wants all of these cars to be purchased, there's no other explanation for where they've set rates right now.

[SpencerM3]

Originally Posted by Big Top Gt

You have to take people's worth with a grain of salt when they're discussing their payments.

Some people bought at different times and have more or less equipment, while others put down a big chunk of change to get the payment down.

Others simply lie about the payment, since there's no way to validate the claim.

I literally JUST hung up the phone with a local dealer. He quoted me a 36/15 lease with 1283 due at signing @ 1325.94 a month.

The MSRP was roughly 69k for a car with the Premium, Tech, PDC, SMG, 19" wheels, and the iPod/usb setup.

When I see people saying they're paying 800 a month with nothing down, it's got me seriously scratching my head to do the math.

36 months X 800 a month is only 28800 dollars in payments, which has to include tax and interest. This leaves you with somewhere between 40 and 50 thousand in residual money hanging over BMW's head. (Or whatever financial unit you're using.)

That means they bought the car with a near 58% residual. It could be possible, if they got in on some crazy lease incentive, but it doesn't seem likely.

On the other hand, a 7500 dollar discounted 2008 would leave you at 53% residual (assuming a 68000 car), so the numbers seem to be closing in on reality if you absolutely stole one.

Liars can figure but figures don't lie.

110% Agree

[Big Top Gt]

The worst part is even at its best, buying a car still kind of stinks.

I found a dealer who'll sell the car at invoice (well known member here), but the lease rates are absolutely terrible.

Copied directly from his email:

Based on M3 from email 18JUN09

MSRP 66075
Sale 61150
36 months/ 15k miles
Residual .49
First payment and security due at signing 2452
1202 monthly

Why wouldn't I just BUY the car for what are basically the same numbers?

I'm leaning toward the BMW SmartBuy, where you end up with a balloon payment at the end, but a 700-800 a month payment for the term.

I can either dump the car to someone else cheap at the end, or keep it and turn it into a track day car.

Either way, if anyone knows of a dealer OUTSIDE Maryland who'll honor invoice or better pricing, please let me know.

My local dealer is playing the "M3's are hot cars, so we don't discount" game. He faded 1700 bucks, but got a little crappy once I told him I had someone offer to sell it at invoice.

*ugh*

[edcvin]

With lease prices 1k+ on 36mnth, there is no sense in leasing whatsoever. In situations like that you might as well buy the car and call it a day. On the Audi S-Line models and AMG's its the same thing

I got my M back in January 09..after hearing from a friend about the ridiculous prices on leftover 08's. Back then I had no intention whatsoever of getting a new car as I was building my current car at the time. Out of curiousity I decided to take a trip to the dealer just to see if the lease prices really were that low. Within an hour including a test drive and staring at the floor model loaded exactly the way I would get the car, I left a deposit. At that point there was no way to say no to the deal, got rid of the other ride and grabbed an M. My monthly is way lower by a couple hundred dollars than those paying $1,200.00. After having this car for a couple of months..I've decided that I'll more than likely buy it..I'm getting such a great deal on it, why not.

-Vin

[1cleanm6]

Im sad to say in Feb 09, i had a great oppurtunity to get a 71k msrp interlagous blue m3 coupe with 3,000 miles (it was a demo) for 700 dollars a month including california sales tax. They wanted 1500 down including first months payment. It was truly an amazing deal!!

However i guess things happen for a reason, im going to wait until the end of year and see if i can grab a 08 m3 for 40k or less(im sure i can).

[osteome]

Originally Posted by Angry3

Plus having to deal with the stigma of rolling up in a new BMW during a global financial meltdown wasn't really something that excited people.

I should not spend the money that I wisely saved to purchase a car at this time? Shoot, maybe I should have purchased a cheap hybrid and as a balm for my feelings of guilt over M3 cost and carbon footprint.

[sirploppy]

Exact same thing that happend to me. I went to dealership just to look at a IB E90 up close with absolutely no intention of buying back in Feburary. I had in my head a lease would be at least $1k/mo and I don't ever want a payment that high. I test drove it and fell in love. When we arrived back at the dealership I gave the fob back to the salesman and said love it, but didn't want such a payment, especially in this economy. he then started to explain the incentives and residuals BMW was offering and just for kicks I told him to run the numbers. I couldn't believe how low the payment was with only $2k down. It was the same payment I had with the car I was driving that was coming to end of lease.

Originally Posted by vinnycg

With lease prices 1k+ on 36mnth, there is no sense in leasing whatsoever. In situations like that you might as well buy the car and call it a day. On the Audi S-Line models and AMG's its the same thing

I got my M back in January 09..after hearing from a friend about the ridiculous prices on leftover 08's. Back then I had no intention whatsoever of getting a new car as I was building my current car at the time. Out of curiousity I decided to take a trip to the dealer just to see if the lease prices really were that low. Within an hour including a test drive and staring at the floor model loaded exactly the way I would get the car, I left a deposit. At that point there was no way to say no to the deal, got rid of the other ride and grabbed an M. My monthly is way lower by a couple hundred dollars than those paying $1,200.00. After having this car for a couple of months..I've decided that I'll more than likely buy it..I'm getting such a great deal on it, why not.

-Vin

[Paddy]

Originally Posted by gobuffs

Early adopters got screwed. People who bought the end of last year made the best deal. Those who are leasing now are getting no favors. MF at teh end of last year put the interest rates on leases at around 0.6%...compared to 6.9%+ when the new body style came out. IIRC the MF now puts the interest rate at 6-ish%. So, yes it is possible that there could be people with payments of $1400/month and some as little as $600 (maybe even a bit less- there were some crazy deals to move the verts). Deals the end of last year were in the $700-800/month range on the remaining 08s. I doubt you can get an 09 lease for under $1k without signifcant amount down.

For sure, I'm paying $560/month for an 08 M3 (Leased at end on Jan this year), lease rate was a special, 3K down and 3MSD (brought the lease MF to almost 0)

Premium, 6MT, Jerez Black, (No Tech package)
MSRP was 60K. 3Yr 10K/year

If the conditions and deal weren't so good, I'd be in a 328i, right now.