M3 GTS info! (lightweight performance edition M3)

[spicoli024]

Originally Posted by meevo

uh it was already announced?

Really? I came across this thread and then realized it was after 5 o'clock and I had been reading bs comments for 6 pages rather than concentrating on my deadline. I'll go back and check, thanks for the heads up, I had almost given up on this...

[duk]

come on bmw make some of the parts optional for the regular m3

[spicoli024]

So basically a "competition" available only in bright orange that will never be introduced to the US? LAME!

BMW, IMO, is moving in the wrong direction in the US. I see more and more GT2s, Carrera GTs, GT3s and Scuderia SCs around town now than ever before. BMWs used to be prominent in the neighborhood, but it seems the majority of sports car enthusiasts are leaning toward other, more unique models. Point is, people are spending so much money on their cars around Houston and if the production of this vehicle is truly as limited as this thread claims it to be, I would guarantee people in the US would pick one up just for the long-term investment potential. I mean seriously, just last week I saw the attached Ferrari 355 on my Drive, and again the next day outside a local shopping center down the street (apologies for the dreadful BB photos). I realize it is not a BMW, but it is a testament to a seemingly recent infatuation with impractical sports cars despite a dismal economy.

It seems silly to me to say BMW is worried about bringing the CSL or any "upgraded" model of the M3 to the US because they are worried about projected sales. BMW pull your head out of your ass and send us some sh1t!

[JC919]

^WTF is a Scuderia SC? Haven't seen one of those

BTW, its not just BMW. Why isn't the RS6 available in the states? Probably b/c its a low production model that can be easily sold in Europe and other places where they don't have to meet US safety and emissions standards. F***ing yuropeeans are so lucky

[frankzlin79]

Hey that picture of that Ferrari is in Highland Village shopping center...near the Eyemaster's, Bose Store, and PF Changs, to name a few store. I see that car parked in the same spot everytime I go to that shopping area. I guess it belongs to an employee of somebody who works in one of the stores.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by spicoli024

I mean seriously, just last week I saw the attached Ferrari 355 on my Drive, and again the next day outside a local shopping center down the street (apologies for the dreadful BB photos). I realize it is not a BMW, but it is a testament to a seemingly recent infatuation with impractical sports cars despite a dismal economy.

That Ferrari is obviously being used for advertisie the store next to it. However, it could be a BMW if we had appropriate "halo" models here (well, I guess if you are adverstising an Italian themed store, that ight not work!: http://www.valobra.net/home.htm).

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by frankzlin79

Hey that picture of that Ferrari is in Highland Village shopping center...near the Eyemaster's, Bose Store, and PF Changs, to name a few store. I see that car parked in the same spot everytime I go to that shopping area. I guess it belongs to an employee of somebody who works in one of the stores.

Uhhh, you see the name on the side of the car is the same as on the store in fornt of it? Maybe the owner??

[spicoli024]

Originally Posted by frankzlin79

Hey that picture of that Ferrari is in Highland Village shopping center...near the Eyemaster's, Bose Store, and PF Changs, to name a few store. I see that car parked in the same spot everytime I go to that shopping area. I guess it belongs to an employee of somebody who works in one of the stores.

no, not an employee with a Ferrari

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Uhhh, you see the name on the side of the car is the same as on the store in fornt of it? Maybe the owner??

Yes, Franco's car. He usually leaves the windows down so you can stick your head in but always takes the steering wheel with him when he leaves without fail. No plates, pretty funny to see on the road, driving, top speed 20mph...

[moog55]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Guys, please realize that everything is just HEARSAY so far. There are quite a few specs including the price that does not make sense. Lets wait for the official press release before you start flaming BMW!

+1

[spicoli024]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Guys, please realize that everything is just HEARSAY so far. There are quite a few specs including the price that does not make sense. Lets wait for the official press release before you start flaming BMW!

I am an avid BMW advocate, but we here in the US have been offered less and less limited production models with each generation. I agree we should wait for BMW's official statement, but at this point, if history continues to repeat itself, it seems to be etched in stone that a denial of our expectations is certainly in order.

[iveman89]

to foosh
If i remember correctly BMW had to make the GTR a production vehicle to be allowed in the ALMS. I think the requirement was 250 units. It might be 200 i cant remember where i read it. Does anyone know the price difference from the E46 M3 to the E46 M3csl?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Yeah, turbo is faster in a straight line while GT3/RS is faster around a race track. Although, the straight line gap is closer with the 997.2 GT3 RS and turbo since the GT3 RS is 700 lbs lighter (2960 lbs) and makes only 50 HP less.

OT, but the new Turbo sounds like a complete and absolute beast of a car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/02/2...o-first-drive/

I cannot imagine an GT3 RS even coming close in a drag race. In fact I would guess that the gap has widened since the 997.1, not lessened. Of course, the GT3 RS lacks PDK. Around a track, sure the GT3 RS still has the advantage of being much lighter (but 550 lbs, not 700), so on a track without long straights, it will still be king.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The "homologation" rules I've experienced were usually in the 200 unit range. The actual number will depend on the sanctioning body and class of racing.

And on those two notes - does homolongation even make sense here?

The GT4 uses a factory stock engine, so changing the engine for the street car makes no sense in the homolongation context. Also, look at the Grand Am Mustangs. They are nothing like the production cars, and in fact use an engine that is 100% different from a stock Mustang GT (or GT500 for that matter). Contrast that with the M3s (which were all E46 until recently) which used the same block. Also there was no street version of the E46 for this race series, so why would they need an E9x?

Granted there might be other race series where the above is not relevant evidence. However, what series might that be? Something in Europe perhaps?

[Bob MG]

In South Africa we received 50 x M3 CSL's but BMW SA thought they were clever and priced the units at R950,000 when the standard fully specked M3 E46 SMG cost R500,000. Thats nearly double the price!!! In Europe the cars were only approximately 20% more expensive than standard.

Needless to say they sold three and everyone else canceled their orders including me. The cars sat at BMW Factory in Rosslyn for nearly 18 months collectig dust until they finally re released them at R750,000, at which point they sold all of them, albeit they were nearly two year old car with 0kms on them!

If they bring out the M3 GT, I hope they use their brains and price correctly.

[BMW269]

I remember the M3 E46 was about 50.000 € and the M3 CSL E46 about 80.000 €, so 30.000 € more (price in Germany). So If we ad these 30.000 € to the M3 E92 that costs 70.000 € then the M3 GT E92 will cost 100.000 €, any way 20.000 € less than a 911 GT3 and 50.000 € less than a 911 GT3 RS.
Well and at look at this about the resail value:
http://www.autoscout24.fr/Details.aspx?id=165485793

[foosh]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

And on those two notes - does homolongation even make sense here?

The GT4 uses a factory stock engine, so changing the engine for the street car makes no sense in the homolongation context. Also, look at the Grand Am Mustangs. They are nothing like the production cars, and in fact use an engine that is 100% different from a stock Mustang GT (or GT500 for that matter). Contrast that with the M3s (which were all E46 until recently) which used the same block. Also there was no street version of the E46 for this race series, so why would they need an E9x?

Granted there might be other race series where the above is not relevant evidence. However, what series might that be? Something in Europe perhaps?

Koesel,

That's not entirely accurate with regard to the Koni Challenge Series or the Mustangs, although some engine modifications are allowed for all the eligible cars. See Section 8 in the 2009 Koni rules below.

I haven't found the regulations pertaining to homologation in the book yet, but I thought I read somewhere on the site that 500 units were required.

http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb9.pdf

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by foosh

Koesel,

That's not entirely accurate with regard to the Koni Challenge Series or the Mustangs, although some engine modifications are allowed for all the eligible cars. See Section 8 in the 2009 Koni rules below.

I haven't found the regulations pertaining to homologation in the book yet, but I thought I read somewhere on the site that 500 units were required.

http://admin.grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb9.pdf

The Mustangs used in Koni Challenge are the 5.0L cammer motors which are not available in any production Mustang.This would open the door for BMW to race a 4.4 L version of the S65.The cars are equalized through weight & allowed modifications.The FR500 is sold for $125000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_FR500

[330CIZHP]

The new 997.2 GT3 RS makes 450 HP to turbo's 500 HP, but is a lot lighter. It also has much more shorter gearing. The power-to-weight works in the GT3 RS advantage. Still, I know the turbo has more torque, which is why I said they are a lot closer than before.

The turbo revs up to only 6700 rpm vs GT3 and GT3 RS up to 8800 rpm. Sound, excitement and thrill wise, turbo has nothing on the GT3 or GT3 RS.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

OT, but the new Turbo sounds like a complete and absolute beast of a car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/02/2...o-first-drive/

I cannot imagine an GT3 RS even coming close in a drag race. In fact I would guess that the gap has widened since the 997.1, not lessened. Of course, the GT3 RS lacks PDK. Around a track, sure the GT3 RS still has the advantage of being much lighter (but 550 lbs, not 700), so on a track without long straights, it will still be king.

[footie]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

The turbo revs up to only 6700 rpm vs GT3 and GT3 RS up to 8800 rpm. Sound, excitement and thrill wise, turbo has nothing on the GT3 or GT3 RS.

That's only true if 99% of your time is spent on the track. Otherwise the turbo is the way to go and for a few reasons.

1: Motorway journeys are less tiresome, due to the longer gearing.

2: Torque is always your friend on the road, where as hp is only your friend at the limit.

3: Economy is superior with the turbo as is emissions.

4: It ain't really that much slower on the track, regardless of what the figures say. In reality 99% of people will never be any quicker or capable to find the limits of either car.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by footie

That's only true if 99% of your time is spent on the track. Otherwise the turbo is the way to go and for a few reasons.

1: Motorway journeys are less tiresome, due to the longer gearing.

2: Torque is always your friend on the road, where as hp is only your friend at the limit.

3: Economy is superior with the turbo as is emissions.

4: It ain't really that much slower on the track, regardless of what the figures say. In reality 99% of people will never be any quicker or capable to find the limits of either car.

Exactly, these are also the reasons why many prefere AMG to ///M, because of their better dailly drivability. But this will change with the next ///M models as they will get turbos.

By the way, I have a feeling BMW is reeding all BMW forums and sees the "complaints". Now, M3 "CSL", soon 135i Tii (M Coupé), and then maybe ///M1. If not don't forget the Z2 Roadster and Coupé, which should be quite exciting and will compete against the new Toyota and Subaru.

Oh and while we are at the M3, would anybody buy/want an M3 Touring? Mercedes has the C63 AMG T-Model and Audi the RS4 Avant.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

The turbo revs up to only 6700 rpm vs GT3 and GT3 RS up to 8800 rpm. Sound, excitement and thrill wise, turbo has nothing on the GT3 or GT3 RS.

+100000

[footie]

Originally Posted by Levi

Exactly, these are also the reasons why many prefere AMG to ///M, because of their better dailly drivability. But this will change with the next ///M models as they will get turbos.

By the way, I have a feeling BMW is reeding all BMW forums and sees the "complaints". Now, M3 "CSL", soon 135i Tii (M Coupé), and then maybe ///M1. If not don't forget the Z2 Roadster and Coupé, which should be quite exciting and will compete against the new Toyota and Subaru.

Oh and while we are at the M3, would anybody buy/want an M3 Touring? Mercedes has the C63 AMG T-Model and Audi the RS4 Avant.

Oh believe me, BMW do read these forums.

About an estate version, I just don't think BMW promote their estate models as well as the others and have always been slow to bring a hi-performance estate to the market. Audi did the opposite, only producing RS models at the start as Avants and that has worked in their favour with equally as good sales coming from both model when they eventually produced a saloon.

Another reason is the looks, frankly BMW tourings don't look as well as their saloon version which again is the opposite to Audi and to a lesser extent Mercedes. BMW are a company known for great saloons and coupes, that is it.