M3 or 1M

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by stefan

You guys know the M2 is going to destroy the 1M in every aspect right? And it probably won't cost much more especially considering some 1M owners paid over MSRP (LOL). I just don't see the point in getting all hyped up over a end-of-life parts bin car that will be trumped by a regular production vehicle next gen.

you, my friend, take the cake for the most ignorant and speculative post of the entire thread. What do you know about the M2? Also, it will not be a limited production run like the 1M was, so absolutely, there will not be premiums added to MSRP, but it will be a dime a dozen just like the M3

The uniqueness/rarity of my 1M is a nice perk aside from the greatness that this car has to offer!

[stefan]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

you, my friend, take the cake for the most ignorant and speculative post of the entire thread. What do you know about the M2? Also, it will not be a limited production run like the 1M was, so absolutely, there will not be premiums added to MSRP, but it will be a dime a dozen just like the M3

The uniqueness/rarity of my 1M is a nice perk aside from the greatness that this car has to offer!

The 1M isn't a true limited production run. It's just limited to a single model year. Why? Because the platform is finished. They introduced it at the end of the E82's life cycle. How is that not painfully obvious. 1M owners and journalists are eating it up, calling it exclusive.

Thus it is safe speculation that the M2 (currently being planned in conjunction with the new 2 series) will be a significant step up. On the most basic of assumptions. Do you think they will introduce a 1M "successor" that doesn't perform as well--particularly one without borrowed parts? It will probably still have a lightly tuned, pedestrian BMW motor, but you guys don't seem to mind this.

[checkmate]

Let's see how many 1M owners will keep their cars after their warranty runs out. We will then have a separate forum for HPFP issues alone. Should be interesting to see those 1M values then especially for folks who paid over MSRP.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by stefan

The 1M isn't a true limited production run. It's just limited to a single model year. Why? Because the platform is finished. They introduced it at the end of the E82's life cycle. How is that not painfully obvious. Thus it is safe speculation that the M2 (currently being planned in conjunction with the new 2 series) will be a significant step up. On the most basic of assumptions. Do you think they will introduce a 1M "successor" that doesn't perform as well--particularly one without borrowed parts? It will probably still have a lightly tuned, pedestrian BMW motor, but you guys don't seem to mind this.

Oh, it's not? I could go get a car identical to yours today if I wanted to, I'm sorry to point out that the same cannot be said about the opposite.

Not sure sure what you're referring to as "painful", but the only thing I see here that could cause any pain here is the production of a "parts bin" car that will wax the car that it borrowed the parts from.

Again, you know nothing about the M2. I'm sure it will be a great car, given that for the most part BMW doesn't disappoint, but your opinion is just as good as the toilet paper we all wiped our a**es with last.

You seem to think that BMW "borrowed" parts to put together a last minute project, which even if that's what it was, the results have been outstanding. However, what BMW did was hand pick the best M bits available in the market to create their latest M-worthy creation.

No I don't believe BMW will build on the 1M, and I would love it for it to stay that way. As stated by BMW themselves and many who have driven it, this is as close as it gets to a true successor of the original and well respected e30 M3, something your oversized/overweight M3 was unable to achieve.

And finally, if I were you I would secure a good shrink, because you may enter a nervous breakdown when the entire BMW line turns to turbocharged solutions, which is right around the corner. And yes, the next M3 will be turbocharged and whether you mind it or not, it's not going to matter...oh and let me remind you, it will also wax your current M3 just like you predict the M2 will outperform the 1M....it's the way the game goes

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by checkmate

Let's see how many 1M owners will keep their cars after their warranty runs out. We will then have a separate forum for HPFP issues alone. Should be interesting to see those 1M values then especially for folks who paid over MSRP.

Not sure if you've noticed, but the defective HPFP has been recalled, replaced with a different model, and the issues have virtually disappeared. But just in case, BMW has the decided to warranty the HPFP to 10 years/110k miles - nothing to lose sleep over. 9 out of 10 times my engine doesn't even turn a full revolution before the car starts up...something that was actually brought up to me by a good e92M3 driver friend of mine, saying "how come my car doesn't start up that quickly?"

[checkmate]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Not sure if you've noticed, but the defective HPFP has been recalled, replaced with a different model, and the issues have virtually disappeared. But just in case, BMW has the decided to warranty the HPFP to 10 years/110k miles - nothing to lose sleep over. 9 out of 10 times my engine doesn't even turn a full revolution before the car starts up...something that was actually brought up to me by a good e92M3 driver friend of mine, saying "how come my car doesn't start up that quickly?"

What the heck are you talking about? Full Revolution to start up? My car starts up quickly just like any other internal combustion car.

Btw-regarding defective HPFPs, my neighbor has a 2011 335is and has been to shop 3 times within 5 months of ownership specifically with regard to the HPFP issue. I also met 2 135 owners (2010 and 2011 cars) who had HPFP issues at a local Indy open house meet 2 weeks ago. So it has not 'virtually disappeared'.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by checkmate

What the heck are you talking about? Full Revolution to start up? My car starts up quickly just like any other internal combustion car.

Sorry, I forgot many people don't know much beyond the brand/model of their cars forgive me for overestimating you.

[checkmate]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Sorry, I forgot many people don't know much beyond the brand/model of their cars forgive me for overestimating you.

I feel sorry for you considering your need to defend the 1M on the forums. We get it-you bought it because you justified it as do all. We'll check back with you in 4 years/50k miles bud! Happy Thanksgiving Stud.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

a lot

Ok, I read your novel and here are my thoughts.

1. I can purchase a 1M exactly like yours. In fact with such limited options and colours, it will be easier. The 850CSi was a "limited" production run.. yes they are rare. Not exactly sought after though, are they? It's because plenty of BETTER cars came after it.

2. It isn't a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Comon. Do you work for BMWs marketing department? E30 M3 was a street version of the race car. E82 1M is a parts bin 135i. It's turbo, when the E30 M3 was NA. It's a tuned pedestrian vehicle, not a toned down race car. Please.

3. Stop the weight argument.. for all that is holy. It's 300lb you're arguing.. you realize that right? And the M3 has a better power to weight ratio anyway. If you bought the 1M because it's a LIGHT car, I have some bad news for you. It's 3000+ lb. Who cares. At that weight, what is important is how the car feels, dynamically. M3 feels just fine. The 1M handles its weight just fine for that matter, but please don't use 300lb less with an inferior engine as an argument.

4. I don't need a shrink, but I appreciate your concern My next car won't be a BMW. This is because I recognize turbocharging as a bit of a cop out. It's not the be-all-end-all. There's plenty of room for continuing R&D in NA engines. What you're seeing with turbocharging is BMW catering to emissions and fuel economy. And to people like you who favour torque, so you can feel instantaneous albeit short lived power on city streets. Now that's all fine, but it's sort of an invalid argument here.

Originally Posted by checkmate

I feel sorry for you considering your need to defend the 1M on the forums. We get it-you bought it because you justified it as do all. We'll check back with you in 4 years/50k miles bud! Happy Thanksgiving Stud.

Better yet, check back after a track day.. Or rather 3/4 of the way through the track day when the car is suffering from a lack of power due to the massive heat soak caused by the turbos. Though I'm guessing he doesn't track based his stance on the car.

I owned a 135i previously and it was completely incompetent. The additional cooling in the 1M probably helps but that thing needs a lot more than an minor increase to intercooler size and aux oil cooler.

edit: forgot to mention I also went through 2 HPFPs on it. Original and the revised hpfp... lol. These are problems I'm sure will be addressed and maybe to totally fixed in the 2-series But at least his 1M starts up faster than any car.... in the world.

[Nine]

I would also check back, when the guys who bought their 1M at 60k, loses their shirt in a year or two and the 1M is selling at 30k.

Too much hype with the 1M, it's distortion of reality.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Not sure if you've noticed, but the defective HPFP has been recalled, replaced with a different model, and the issues have virtually disappeared. But just in case, BMW has the decided to warranty the HPFP to 10 years/110k miles - nothing to lose sleep over. 9 out of 10 times my engine doesn't even turn a full revolution before the car starts up...something that was actually brought up to me by a good e92M3 driver friend of mine, saying "how come my car doesn't start up that quickly?"

Well, all true M motors, including the e30 s14 motor, all start a bit "rough" but that's the difference between a "M" Motorsports motor and a mass-produced motor tweaked by M - please don't be offended by my comment because that's not my intention. I have nothing against the 1M and had seriously considered buying one. BTW, both of my S65 motors start quickly and do not require "full revolution" before starting, and idle rough due to cold start DME programming.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Agreed with the exception of the topic of weight. Sure, 32xx lbs. may not place a 1M in the "extreme lightweight" category, however, at about 4-500 lbs. lighter than the M3 it DOES feel much lighter and nimbler, also contributed by the shorter wheelbase. I'm sorry but if the 1M (or any 1 series for that matter) doesn't feel much lighter/nimbler to you, you may be experiencing some sensory issues.

I went from a 135i to the M3. The 1 series definitely feels more nimble and enjoyable around tight corners, but in no way did it feel light. And the weight difference is 342lbs. I love how that number seems to grow when 1M owners compare the 2 cars.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Not sure if you've noticed, but the defective HPFP has been recalled, replaced with a different model, and the issues have virtually disappeared. But just in case, BMW has the decided to warranty the HPFP to 10 years/110k miles - nothing to lose sleep over. 9 out of 10 times my engine doesn't even turn a full revolution before the car starts up...something that was actually brought up to me by a good e92M3 driver friend of mine, saying "how come my car doesn't start up that quickly?"

there are no e9x M3 owners that are in any way jealous of the motor in the 1M.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by checkmate

I feel sorry for you considering your need to defend the 1M on the forums. We get it-you bought it because you justified it as do all. We'll check back with you in 4 years/50k miles bud! Happy Thanksgiving Stud.

You are a lost case, I don;t have much more to say to you because it is a waste of typing effort

Originally Posted by stefan

Ok, I read your novel and here are my thoughts.

1. I can purchase a 1M exactly like yours. In fact with such limited options and colours, it will be easier. The 850CSi was a "limited" production run.. yes they are rare. Not exactly sought after though, are they? It's because plenty of BETTER cars came after it.

2. It isn't a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Comon. Do you work for BMWs marketing department? E30 M3 was a street version of the race car. E82 1M is a parts bin 135i. It's turbo, when the E30 M3 was NA. It's a tuned pedestrian vehicle, not a toned down race car. Please.

3. Stop the weight argument.. for all that is holy. It's 300lb you're arguing.. you realize that right? And the M3 has a better power to weight ratio anyway. If you bought the 1M because it's a LIGHT car, I have some bad news for you. It's 3000+ lb. Who cares. At that weight, what is important is how the car feels, dynamically. M3 feels just fine. The 1M handles its weight just fine for that matter, but please don't use 300lb less with an inferior engine as an argument.

4. I don't need a shrink, but I appreciate your concern My next car won't be a BMW. This is because I recognize turbocharging as a bit of a cop out. It's not the be-all-end-all. There's plenty of room for continuing R&D in NA engines. What you're seeing with turbocharging is BMW catering to emissions and fuel economy. And to people like you who favour torque, so you can feel instantaneous albeit short lived power on city streets. Now that's all fine, but it's sort of an invalid argument here.



Better yet, check back after a track day.. Or rather 3/4 of the way through the track day when the car is suffering from a lack of power due to the massive heat soak caused by the turbos. Though I'm guessing he doesn't track based his stance on the car.

I owned a 135i previously and it was completely incompetent. The additional cooling in the 1M probably helps but that thing needs a lot more than an minor increase to intercooler size and aux oil cooler.

edit: forgot to mention I also went through 2 HPFPs on it. Original and the revised hpfp... lol. These are problems I'm sure will be addressed and maybe to totally fixed in the 2-series But at least his 1M starts up faster than any car.... in the world.

1.

2. Much closer to the e30 M3 than you car has/will ever be.

3. When people in the performance world remove rear seats, interior panels etc to save anything north of 50 lbs., you must be smoking something strong if you don't consider 300 lbs. to be substantial.

4. Short lived? Last time I checked (which was about 20 minutes during a joy ride) the car puts out power at 1500rpms and holds it until redline. Just because an engine redlines sooner than another it does not mean the power is "short-lived". In fact, NA engines show more of a "short-lived" pattern since their peak numbers are just that: peak. Nothing is really held constant and the power needs to be squeezed out of the engine. Is this a flaw? Not really. Some people prefer that...I know I used to love revving the crap out of my s2000's in order to get decent power out of them, but I will take an engine that puts put power early only and continues to do so until redline any day of the week.

I have not had the chance to track my car given that I have not owned it long enough, but if you're really interested, a search will yield results proving that all your speculation is a bunch of non-sense.

Lastly, I am not here to criticize your car or anyone else's. I stated clearly many posts ago that this thread was not created by the OP for anyone to prove which car was better than which. It's just simply interesting how some people cannot accept/comprehend/admit/process that someone (or many of us) may actually prefer another car from what you own. I like the M3, and respect what it has to offer, but I like my car much better, just like you prefer yours. End of story.

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I went from a 135i to the M3. The 1 series definitely feels more nimble and enjoyable around tight corners, but in no way did it feel light. And the weight difference is 342lbs. I love how that number seems to grow when 1M owners compare the 2 cars.

That is a substantial amount of weight, whether you see it that way or not. Oh and the 1M is about 77 lbs. lighter than the 135i, so yes, the number has grown to beyond 400 lbs., whether you like it or not

Originally Posted by Brosef

there are no e9x M3 owners that are in any way jealous of the motor in the 1M.

As it should be. We all have reasons as to why/how we choose our cars and this thread was never intended to be a competition between the two cars.

I'm out of here fellas, communicating with some of you is truly a waste of my time. The OP made a decision (the proper decision should I say), therefore this thread is done!

[Avly]

Just an observation, it is interesting to see people so entrenched for either the M3 or 1M because from the thread and previous posts, I would wager that most here would jump off a cliff for a M car with the 1M's size and aggressive fenders and bumpers, with the M3's engine. BMW didn't let us have our cake and eat it too. It is laughable that having been forced to choose, some people are so sure their side is the "right" side.

The arguments posted regarding rarity and uniqueness are quite comical. Neither attribute affect the performance or appearance of a car. 1M people touting the rarity of the car and M3 owners complaining their car is too common either need to get their heads checked or have overly fragile egos. Valuing something simply on the basis that you can have it and someone else can't is not an admirable trait to possess. Moreover, we usually see the inside of our cars, unless you just stand there and stare at your car. I see about 10 E92 M3's a day and it's really the only time I get to appreciate the looks of one, especially a moving one. I wouldn't mind seeing many more during my tedious 50mi daily commute, even though I own one.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

1.

2. Much closer to the e30 M3 than you car has/will ever be.

Ok so I gave you a valid argument re: 850CSi and your response is an emoticon. OK. And as for being "closer". No.. neither are close. DO give up on this.

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

3. When people in the performance world remove rear seats, interior panels etc to save anything north of 50 lbs., you must be smoking something strong if you don't consider 300 lbs. to be substantial.

300lb.. it's across two completely different cars, two different power plants. 300lb is huge in the M3 of course. Doesn't mean a lot in this argument so.. enough.

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

4. Short lived? Last time I checked (which was about 20 minutes during a joy ride) the car puts out power at 1500rpms and holds it until redline. Just because an engine redlines sooner than another it does not mean the power is "short-lived". In fact, NA engines show more of a "short-lived" pattern since their peak numbers are just that: peak. Nothing is really held constant and the power needs to be squeezed out of the engine. Is this a flaw? Not really. Some people prefer that...I know I used to love revving the crap out of my s2000's in order to get decent power out of them, but I will take an engine that puts put power early only and continues to do so until redline any day of the week.

Yeah.. short lived. The N54 is anemic past its hp peak. Also you cannot dismiss peak power, particularly at the rpm it comes at. Your lack of understanding with respect to torque is showing through..

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

I have not had the chance to track my car given that I have not owned it long enough, but if you're really interested, a search will yield results proving that all your speculation is a bunch of non-sense.

Keywords; you haven't tracked your 1M. Let me know how it goes. A few laps isn't a big deal. A whole day when its hot out? Good luck.

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

some people cannot accept/comprehend/admit/process that someone (or many of us) may actually prefer another car from what you own. I like the M3, and respect what it has to offer, but I like my car much better, just like you prefer yours. End of story.

This is a discussion forum thus we are discussing. Personally I enjoy the banter but keep in mind you're calling me ignorant. So you have to expect a response. You can't say "to each their own" but then explain why it's "better" to have an N54 and why I can't understand that is a result of a lack of my comprehension. :|

[klammer]

Personally it sounds like you should get a Caymen or used 911. Have not seen a 1M on track yet, but plenty of 135's and they're not that fast, then again lotus', caymens and 911's arent either to be honest. still think there's not a faster car on track that I consistently use as the family conveyance (fits 2 car seats no prob) take on road trips, and can take my wife out on a date with. Best all around car ever, END OF STORY... But, I am aware of the concept of evolution and know things WILL get better whether it's an M or a Mustang or an Audi (that's right, I said it ) but I live in the now, and am enjoying every minute of it

[funcar62]

[QUOTE=stefan;10857742]Ok, I read your novel and here are my thoughts.

2. It isn't a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Comon. Do you work for BMWs marketing department? E30 M3 was a street version of the race car. E82 1M is a parts bin 135i. It's turbo, when the E30 M3 was NA. It's a tuned pedestrian vehicle, not a toned down race car. Please.





Does a "spiritual successor" to the E30 M3 have to also be a "homologated special" or a street version of a race car? Or perhaps maybe it only has to adhere to the same values and driving experiences?

Here are some choice quotes from respected automotive publications:

"We had a blast driving the 1 M Coupe like we would an E30 M3 from the late 1980s or a well-sorted 1970s 2002: hard and quick on extremely tight, twisty two-lane roads. The car’s lineage was clear, reflected in every sensation. More importantly, the spirit of the car echoed those earlier Bimmers perfectly." - Mike Miller, Bimmer magazine

"The 1-series M coupe is the most badass, coolest, sickest BMW to debut since the 1988 M3. The bar has been raised, the benchmark has been beaten, and we can finally stop begging for another E30 M3. It might lack the racing pedigree, but the 1-series M coupe is clearly the E30 M3 reinterpreted for modern times." - Jason Camissa

Now, there are plenty other journalists who disagree, of course. But you sound like its ridiculous to compare the two. But the fact that the two above and plenty more if you google it, DO compare the e30 and the 1m quite favorably, means that there is substance to that particular claim by the marketing folks at BMW. Of course, we can always question the integrity of automotive journalists... but in the absence of proof, lets give them the benefit of the doubt...

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

That is a substantial amount of weight, whether you see it that way or not. Oh and the 1M is about 77 lbs. lighter than the 135i, so yes, the number has grown to beyond 400 lbs., whether you like it or not

My number was comparing the M3 and 1M coupe, not the 135i.

[chungdae]

M3.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by Powerbeast

Whats up boys and girls? The time has come to purchase a new toy. Long story short I had a 2010 E93 after that I purchased a 2011 750LI M still have the car and loving it. I\'m now wanting to buy a second car as a daily and I\'m debating between a 2012 E92 or 2011 1M. Any opinions would be much help.

is the 1M discontinued?

[Soren]

M3 all the way!