Dodge Viper ACR runs a record-breaking 7:22 lap around the Nurburgring

[Zed]

In car video of the new Dodge Viper ACR doing a record breaking 7:22 lap around the Nurburgring.
http://www.motortrend.com/av/feature...deo/index.html

It seems like the car could probably do a faster lap than the one in the video as the driver seems to hit the rev limiter quite often, but what do I know.

A few pics:

[Ryan(e92)]

Wow. Agreed he could have probably shaved a few seconds off that time.

[Sticky]

Now that is a beast.

[chili cheese]

Wow that is shit your pants fast. I was a little uncomfotable just watching that video.

[TLud]

There were a couple of longer straights where he seemed to ride the limiter for several seconds, and also a couple of missed shifts into 3rd, but I'm in no position to evaluate the driving. I was actually surprised at how composed the Viper looked in that video. Driver made it look easy.

[GnokGnik]

Tracking like that for a whole 7.22 minutes must be stressful.

[M3WC]

Impressive.

[Gearhead999s]

Great video!From my armchair seat it looked like there was some time left on the table,Bouncing off the limiter in the second gear stuff will not not slow the times much if at all as staying in a lower gear and avoiding 2 shifts and being able to use the engine braking to help the braking & turn in can be a very good thing.Bouncing off the limiter on the the Castle straight in 4 th gear for many seconds and not using 5th is strange,Car was sure touching down good and you have to wonder if a higher ride height might not have been a better choice.

[Big Windy]

damn!

[swamp2]

I know the time is the point here and it is impressive. However, the sound, vibration and loosey-goosey shifter are simply a riot. Dodge quality FTW.

[icemang17]

this makes sense for a car of that weight-power-tires + downforce (this is the key)

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I know the time is the point here and it is impressive. However, the sound, vibration and loosey-goosey shifter are simply a riot. Dodge quality FTW.

Swamp, this is a race car that you can license for everyday street use, if you are hard core and also addicted to punishment. NVH control is not part of the program.

Quality? For its intended purpose I'd bet that the car is actually overbuilt. As you know, traditions are hard to kill, and I can tell you that Dodge has one going back about 50 years in the narrow venue of very high performance machinery. That tradition can be described as one of providing high performance cars that run harder than you'd expect from the published specs, and run reliably while doing so. The American Club Racing nomenclature is a relative newcomer on the scene, but it continues that tradition.

Bruce

PS - Ever hear the Beach Boys' "Shutdown"? That was a really good car song, in my opinion, but the problem with it is that there is no way a 413 is going to lose to an injected Vette of the period. No way at all. Those cars ran hard, and were very heavy duty, front to back. With the pushbutton Torqueflite transmission, they were referred to as "dial-a-win".

Just one of many examples, including my old Neon ACR.

[luckistryke]

i wonder what the ZR1 boys think about this?

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by luckistryke

i wonder what the ZR1 boys think about this?

Probally wondering how long till they have a ZR1 back there with sticky non run flat rubber and a hired ringer for a driver.

[icemang17]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Probally wondering how long till they have a ZR1 back there with sticky non run flat rubber and a hired ringer for a driver.

The ZR1 with R compounds and upgraded shocks should be able to match or beat this time...but I do think the ACR could run slightly faster too...but both of those cars are 7:20 or better when properly setup

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Swamp, this is a race car that you can license for everyday street use, if you are hard core and also addicted to punishment. NVH control is not part of the program.

Quality? For its intended purpose I'd bet that the car is actually overbuilt. As you know, traditions are hard to kill, and I can tell you that Dodge has one going back about 50 years in the narrow venue of very high performance machinery. That tradition can be described as one of providing high performance cars that run harder than you'd expect from the published specs, and run reliably while doing so. The American Club Racing nomenclature is a relative newcomer on the scene, but it continues that tradition.

Bruce

PS - Ever hear the Beach Boys' "Shutdown"? That was a really good car song, in my opinion, but the problem with it is that there is no way a 413 is going to lose to an injected Vette of the period. No way at all. Those cars ran hard, and were very heavy duty, front to back. With the pushbutton Torqueflite transmission, they were referred to as "dial-a-win".

Just one of many examples, including my old Neon ACR.

Like I said impressive time and car. The challenge is to provide this performance with a car that you can live with daily and I don't think Dodge can do that. As far as quality goes I said quality, not durability.

[ace996]

Originally Posted by swamp2

The challenge is to provide this performance with a car that you can live with daily .

No challenge here, just add a few hundred thousand dollars and an Italian manufacturer to build it and you'll have similar performance with your daily-driver requirements. The crazy thing is that the ACR beat those exotics.

Absolutely insane...get Stuck in that car and let's see what time can really be done.

[footie]

I have commented on the other thread but feel I should give an opinion of this here as well.

The Viper ACR may hold this title but compared to the cars before it, it is not in the spirit of the thing. The GTR is a car which is both comfortable, has a quality feel and can be used daily with little of no compromises what so ever, the same is true for the ZR1, a car that's suspension is actually softer than the car it's based on (the Z06), again it is something which could be used daily with little or no compromise.

The list goes on, all of the Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc are perfectly acceptable as daily drives and all ride with a complacency that contradicts their abilities.

Now look at the Viper in question, yes it's F'ing quick and yes it can handle but it's not something which could or would be used daily, the ride based on what we know and have seen in that video is not the sort of thing that would be classed as acceptable on anything other have a smooth race track, the quality plays a poor second to the function of making it quick, in fact I would go as far as to say no consideration was given to how it drive, apart from making the experience as raw as possible.

This my friends is a bonafied race car for the road, the nearest thing to it is a F430 Scud and even it would feel like a Bentley by comparison.

So you see my problem with classing this as a victory for Dodge over all the other true production cars. The thing needs to be classed in the modified class and as such wouldn't even be in the running.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by footie

I have commented on the other thread but feel I should give an opinion of this here as well.

The Viper ACR may hold this title but compared to the cars before it, it is not in the spirit of the thing. The GTR is a car which is both comfortable, has a quality feel and can be used daily with little of no compromises what so ever, the same is true for the ZR1, a car that's suspension is actually softer than the car it's based on (the Z06), again it is something which could be used daily with little or no compromise.

The list goes on, all of the Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc are perfectly acceptable as daily drives and all ride with a complacency that contradicts their abilities.

Now look at the Viper in question, yes it's F'ing quick and yes it can handle but it's not something which could or would be used daily, the ride based on what we know and have seen in that video is not the sort of thing that would be classed as acceptable on anything other have a smooth race track, the quality plays a poor second to the function of making it quick, in fact I would go as far as to say no consideration was given to how it drive, apart from making the experience as raw as possible.

This my friends is a bonafied race car for the road, the nearest thing to it is a F430 Scud and even it would feel like a Bentley by comparison.

So you see my problem with classing this as a victory for Dodge over all the other true production cars. The thing needs to be classed in the modified class and as such wouldn't even be in the running.

The Ring has become the wild west for the manufactures.There is no sanctioning to police what is actually being lapped.The only thing that matters is setting a faster time for bragging rights.There needs to be some body that can police the specs of these carsFun to watch though

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Like I said impressive time and car. The challenge is to provide this performance with a car that you can live with daily and I don't think Dodge can do that. As far as quality goes I said quality, not durability.

As long as you are narrowly defining quality as a more or less NVH thing (one of many possible definitions), then I can't find fault with your logic.

Bruce

[ace996]

Originally Posted by footie

The list goes on, all of the Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc are perfectly acceptable as daily drives and all ride with a complacency that contradicts their abilities.-on what planet do people daily drive their GT3s, Ferraris, Lamborghinis??? Usually, these cars have ridiculously low miles and are horrendously expensive to maintain. Add the GTR to the "ridiculous to maintain" list too - brake job is $6K and mandatory tranny service after track day is $1000. The cars you'velisted above are "toys", just like the ACR, accept they've yet to break under 7:25. They are slower cars at the Ring...and that is what the ACR is...a track car. Let's not bring the "daily driver" arguement into this...as I said in my prior post, a couple hundred thousand dollars separates your listed vehicles above to the Viper.

Now look at the Viper in question, yes it's F'ing quick and yes it can handle but it's not something which could or would be used daily - again, that's not it's purpose..., the ride based on what we know-just what do we know? It has an adjustable suspension...how soft does it go??...enough for you??? We don't know, now do we...? and have seen in that video is not the sort of thing that would be classed as acceptable on anything other have a smooth race track, the quality plays a poor second to the function of making it quick - have you ever seen a Viper in real life? Ever driven one??? The quality is quite good and they are very robust cars, very overbuilt. There are quite a few running twin turbos with 1000whp without issues...is that good enough quality for you???, in fact I would go as far as to say no consideration was given to how it drive- is that really what you think? You think the engineers/builders didn't care how it drives??? IT DRIVES GOOD ENOUGH TO DO A 7:22 ON THE RING!!!! THATS PRETTY GOOD!!!!, apart from making the experience as raw as possible.

This my friends is a bonafied race car for the road- I think you may have just figured it out..., the nearest thing to it is a F430 Scud and even it would feel like a Bentley by comparison-perhaps...or one could buy two Bentley's and an ACR for the price of te F430Scud....

So you see my problem with classing this as a victory for Dodge over all the other true production cars- are you calling the F430Scud a "true production car"????...or a CarerraGT???Enzo????...no, you can't.... The thing needs to be classed in the modified class and as such wouldn't even be in the running.

The ACR is a street-legal track car, just like the GT3RS, F430Scud, ExigeS, and many other cars that don't have their focus on pampering their drivers with leathered luxury and a/c in the seats. It is a focused, uncompromising, prurpose-built car that just blew the doors off the best of the best. Thankfully, for us all, the manufacturers will not take this beating lightly and will improve their cars in response. Until then, an American car stands at the top!!!!

Don't hate...and give credit when it's due.

Be good,
TomK

[footie]

ace996,

If you want a cheap, industrial, uncompromising trackday car which is hellish quick then by all means buy the Viper. Like I said on the other post, national pride is clouding your judgement and in this I can understand, I too would be feeling the same especially as American is the butt of all jokes when it comes to handling.

But like I keep insisting, making something handle well is not the difficult part, making it handle and still feel like quality, ride well and have finesse in it's controls is what separates the good from the brilliant. Viper is the good and the rest that are up around it are the brilliant.

You mention all the other brands I listed as ultra expensive to own and run and you are quite correct, the reality is that quality costs money, lots of it. That is why when one tunes their 335i they may achieve similar results as the M3 but it's no M3 and that is the thing, the Viper is the 335i and the GTR and others are the M3.

If you were to put the Viper up against a car which is closest to it is philosophy then pick a Radical SR8, price would be similar and both can be driven on the road but the Viper would finish a distant second in any race that didn't involve maximum speed.

Here's a video to show the difference between the two.

Feel free to disagree but to me these cars are closer than any of the others, it too is totally uncompromising, though with it you are getting a quality in it's controls that the Viper could only dream of.

P.S.
Take these two away from the ring where top speed has such a bearing of lap time and you will see the Viper being totally destroyed by the Radical.