All M's except the M3 now have 0.9%APR- any chance the m3 will get this rate?

[TLud]

Originally Posted by shift@red

If/when Porsche decides to race the Cayman, game over. I used to have a 911 (and my father has had a bunch of 911s, including multiple 996TTs which I drive more than he does), so i know the difference (any my experience in 911s is quite extensive), but the cayman S is just that good, and I love how it drives. I dont personally care about bluetooth or DSG. It will outhanndle ANY M car (let alone a regular bmw), easily, and without much effort to boot. The handling and responsiveness is what I enjoy the most. Its becomes an extension of your body. Have you driven one??
The M3 itself is watered down/neutered with electronics, and weight, in addition to trying to be an all in one car. That doesnt appeal to me much at the moment since I dont need a practical car. The m3 is ALSO A WET SUMP MOTOR, so i guess its no good either.

Agree 100% with everything you said right up until your comparison in the last sentence. There are some inherent disadvantages to a wet sump system in a horizontally opposed setup that aren't present in a traditional V-8. That said, I don't think the wet sump issue is as big of a deal as some Porsche purists make it out to be.

I loved the Cayman S. The car is so complete and perfectly balanced, I didn't really even notice the relative lack of power. I only ruled it out on practicality considerations.

[xsilvor]

While I was impressed when driving the Cayman S, I'm nothing close to being a professional driver. My salesman, however, is. After I was finished driving, he asked me if he wanted to go for a ride with him driving. He started on a pit crew, but got to race as well. Anyhow, I can't explain the sort of forces I felt when he pushed the Cayman S to its limit.

Thanks for backing me up I decided to go with an M3 over the Cayman, but that doesn't keep me from feeling wronged when someone knocks it.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

My only gripe about the Cayman/S (besides the lack of power, obviously) is that they price it $10M above the Boxster, which, due to the folding roof, is more costly to manufacture.
Sorry, rant off.

+1

[TLud]

Heck, if BMW ever announces the pricing for my '09 M3 order and it goes up by $2K or more, I'll most likely forget the practicality issue and buy a leftover '08 Cayman S on the spot.

[patronM3]

Originally Posted by TLud

Heck, if BMW ever announces the pricing for my '09 M3 order and it goes up by $2K or more, I'll most likely forget the practicality issue and buy a leftover '08 Cayman S on the spot.

Agreed! Any price increase >$1000, may tip me over to the 2009 911.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Yes, I know what you are saying re: wet sump.
The cayman S is actually very responsive to mods as well. Independant dyno tests done on caymanclub have show ~15-18 rwhp from a full catback exhaust. Its quicker stock for stock than an e46 m3 and z4m so its not slow stock, but add a few bolts ons and youve got a decent amount more power.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Porsche-Cay...lip-10754.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Porsche-Cay...lip-10832.html

I liked the new m3, and being a previous m3 owner I thought it was a very good progression to what the e46 m3 wanted to be.
Like I said, I want a more dedicated, more hard core (lightweight, etc) and the Cayman S fits the bill EXTREMELY well right now.
Take it easy bro.

We've been OT so long in this thread, I don't feel to bad asking this question here. What are your impressions of the Cayman as a daily driver (i.e., noise level, comfort over longer trips, storage space, etc.)? My experience has been limited to a test drive and driving a friend's for a few minutes.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by TLud

Heck, if BMW ever announces the pricing for my '09 M3 order and it goes up by $2K or more, I'll most likely forget the practicality issue and buy a leftover '08 Cayman S on the spot.

That is what I am thinking as well. I already went and test drove one. If you go for the Cayman don't settle for less than $10,000 off MSRP on them. I had 3 different dealers offer me that. Also if you don't like the $1500 optional wheels most dealers will swap them if they have another car on the lot so you can save some more. I just couldn't go from my 360 hp E46 M3 (modified) to a 295 hp Cayman S. It drove nice, but the new M3 has it beat everywhere and gotta love 4 years and 50,000 miles of no worries.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I had an e46 m3 with Gruppe M intake, FULL Supersprint race exhaust, OEM Motorsport 4.10 differential, Pulleys, short shifter, race software, BBS LMs, suspension, and even more mods, and the cayman S stock blows it away in EVERY WAY (fun factor, handling, and with the mods straight line would be VERY close (drivers race)).

Yeah but I sold my E46 M3 with about the same amount of mods you had. We are comparing the Cayman S to the new M3 to which I don't see the Cayman S beating it in anything other than being lighter. I would definitely rather have the Cayman S over my old M3 even though it has less HP. Trust me I know how great the Cayman S is to drive and if I wasn't getting an E92 I would be getting a Cayman S.

[xsilvor]

I'm sorry. I couldn't resist :

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

The Cayman is an excellent car. I don't see how you could claim that its not a real Porsche when it has been engineered better than the current 911s. There's a reason they had to cut its performance short - it would take sales away from the 911. The Cayman doesn't have "racing heritage" on its own, hell, its only a few years old, but Porsche certainly does. I also don't see how you can argue the "built up" vs "built down" point. I'd think a car designed to be what it is, and only limited for marketing reasons, is no more "neutered" than a car that was designed to wear many hats, even if one of those is a 414hp performance beast. The Cayman has been kicked in the shins by Porsche, there's no way to get around that, but it is an incredible car and there's really no room to jump on the M3 high horse and shout down insults at the car. If Porsche had to limit the car to keep it from infringing on the 911, I would consider it even more worthy of the Porsche badge.

My only gripe about the Cayman/S (besides the lack of power, obviously) is that they price it $10M above the Boxster, which, due to the folding roof, is more costly to manufacture.

Sorry, rant off.

Sorry, the Cayman is a hardtop boxster that they threw an old motor and tranny in. They had an old 3.4 liter sitting around, they used that. They had the old 6 speed sitting around, they used that. They did not bother with a limited slip. Porsche never raced the wet sump motor.

They used old parts, it is cheaper to make, and yet they charge more. If that is not a neutered car I don't know what is.

Yes, we all know the reason they don't give it a limited slip and a proper motor. It would step on the 911's toes, Porsche has backed themselves into a corner.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

I'm sorry. I couldn't resist :

Yes, the Cayman looks great with a 25,000 dollar body kit. Rosie O'Donnel would probably be fuckable with 25,000 dollars of cosmetic surgery.

[xsilvor]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Sorry, the Cayman is a hardtop boxster that they threw an old motor and tranny in. They had an old 3.4 liter sitting around, they used that. They had the old 6 speed sitting around, they used that. They did not bother with a limited slip. Porsche never raced the wet sump motor.

They used old parts, it is cheaper to make, and yet they charge more. If that is not a neutered car I don't know what is.

Yes, we all know the reason they don't give it a limited slip and a proper motor. It would step on the 911's toes, Porsche has backed themselves into a corner.

Wah wah wah bmw wah.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by shift@red

If/when Porsche decides to race the Cayman, game over. I used to have a 911 (and my father has had a bunch of 911s, including multiple 996TTs which I drive more than he does), so i know the difference (any my experience in 911s is quite extensive), but the cayman S is just that good, and I love how it drives. I dont personally care about bluetooth or DSG. It will outhanndle ANY M car (let alone a regular bmw), easily, and without much effort to boot. The handling and responsiveness is what I enjoy the most. Its becomes an extension of your body. Have you driven one??
The M3 itself is watered down/neutered with electronics, and weight, in addition to trying to be an all in one car. That doesnt appeal to me much at the moment since I dont need a practical car. The m3 is ALSO A WET SUMP MOTOR, so i guess its no good either.

I am not sure why you keep mentioning your father other than the impression seems to be your father pays for everything and you are a kid. Which is fine, but I am not going to sit here and start talking about what my father drives as I guess I grew out of that a while ago and I would rather talk about what I have.

If you actually knew your Porsches the way you claim (I am sure in your vast experience, I am going to peg you at around 18 years old) you would understand the wet sump comment has to do with Porsche having NEVER raced the motor in your car. Porsche uses the GT1 variants for racing, you know, the block that goes into cars like the turbo, GT3, and GT2. You know, the cars Porsche actually tracks? The only thing Porsche does with the wet sump motors is fix RMS leaks.

If/when BMW decides to race the V8 they will bitch slap the little Porsche flat 6's around the track. Oh wait, they did, and Porsche bitched and complained about getting spanked so the rules were changed.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Sorry, the Cayman is a hardtop boxster that they threw an old motor and tranny in. They had an old 3.4 liter sitting around, they used that. They had the old 6 speed sitting around, they used that. They did not bother with a limited slip. Porsche never raced the wet sump motor.

They used old parts, it is cheaper to make, and yet they charge more. If that is not a neutered car I don't know what is.

Yes, we all know the reason they don't give it a limited slip and a proper motor. It would step on the 911's toes, Porsche has backed themselves into a corner.

Valid points, but that doesn't make the Cayman S any less fun to drive in its current setup. It just means that it's currently overpriced. With the $10K discounts dealers are offering right now, it's certainly a lot of car for the money.

[xsilvor]

Still hot.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

Wah wah wah bmw wah.

IS300's are cute

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by TLud

Valid points, but that doesn't make the Cayman S any less fun to drive in its current setup. It just means that it's currently overpriced. With the $10K discounts dealers are offering right now, it's certainly a lot of car for the money.

Of course it is fun to drive, so is an Elise, or a Miata.

I guess I disagree about it being a lot of car for the money, the M3 is a much more complete package for the money.

[xsilvor]

Originally Posted by Sticky

IS300's are cute

I know, I like it.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

I know, I like it.

So does my neighbors 16 year old daughter. I think she mentioned her hair dresser has one as well. Perfect chick car.

[xsilvor]

Originally Posted by Sticky

So does my neighbors 16 year old daughter. I think she mentioned her hair dresser has one as well. Perfect chick car.

Hah, cool. Maybe I can get her number.

You've made this conversation quite mature.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by xsilvor

Hah, cool. Maybe I can get her number.

You've made this conversation quite mature.

I hope so, I take great pride in being the model of maturity. I realize you are enjoying our conversation but please don't ask for my number next. Kansas can't be that lonely, can it?

[xsilvor]

Originally Posted by Sticky

I hope so, I take great pride in being the model of maturity. I realize you are enjoying our conversation but please don't ask for my number next. Kansas can't be that lonely, can it?

I'm quite content in Kansas City, though, I live in Kansas City, Missouri, so I'm not sure how lonely Kansas is. Thanks for asking though. The IS was my first car. I've enjoyed it every day I've owned it. It runs great, it was the right price, and at the time I bought it, it would have made the perfect project car. Since then, I've graduated, gotten a job and moved twice for that job. I could have bought an M3 already but then you wouldn't be making fun of my IS and we wouldn't be having any fun. Instead, I decided to buy a home. You can make fun of me for that, too, if you want. I will be buying an M3 soon. I won't be buying a Cayman S, but I'm not blinded enough by my obsession to miss the fact that it is an excellent car.

So, you can knock me all you want for owning and driving an IS. I love the thing. If it wouldn't knock my insurance up so much to have two cars (not being 25 sucks ), I would have kept them both. If you're neighbors 16 year old daughter likes it, she has good taste, and if you'd like, I'll mail you some pictures when I'm ready to sell and you can see if shes interested in it. 2003 Thunder Cloud Metallic. Gray interior. Thanks for the help man, you're something special.


Edit: Oh yeah, any word on whether M3s will be available at .9% later in the year? Maybe 1.9% like the other Ms?