Would you still buy a M3 IF...

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Failure rate for iPhones is reportedly 26% within two years. You are talking about a mass produced product which is very easily replaced by simply going to your local cell phone dealer and exchanging it.

Apples and oranges.

Soure: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/law...n-3-years.html

Way to be selective with your facts.

From your source:
The two-year failure rate for iPhones is reportedly better than the industry average and only 7.5% of the reported failures were due to a hardware malfunction according to SquareTrade, the warranty provider for the iPhone.

18.1% of the 26% are from accidental damage. And the iPhone is doing better than the industry average.

[kmarei]

well people buy volkswagons made in portugal, mexico etc
BMWs made in south africa, austria
Chryslers made in canada and mexico

keep in mind this is a regional xenophobic thing as well
i knew a few people who were aprehensive about the then new X5 , when it came out, because it wasn't made in germany but was built in the US.

my brother has an E39 520i built in Egypt
its now close to 10 years old and has performed pretty good
as long as the quality control is sufficient, you can make things anywhere

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Failure rate for iPhones is reportedly 26% within two years. You are talking about a mass produced product which is very easily replaced by simply going to your local cell phone dealer and exchanging it.

Apples and oranges.

Soure: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/law...n-3-years.html

Agreed completely. I'd add that outsourcing to China would be done so for cost saving benefits to BMW. These cost savings should theoretically be passed onto customers. If such a decision is made, and we don't see a price drop, it is this reason that I would not buy it.

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by stefan

Agreed completely. I'd add that outsourcing to China would be done so for cost saving benefits to BMW. These cost savings should theoretically be passed onto customers. If such a decision is made, and we don't see a price drop, it is this reason that I would not buy it.

+100

that's exactly where I'm at on this..if they are going to cut their labor cost in half, lets say, then I better not be paying $76k for my M3 if its being mfg in China. I'm not in it to fatten shareholders' wallets, no matter how good it drives or performs.

[Mjolnir]

Originally Posted by Foodle

Way to be selective with your facts.

From your source:
The two-year failure rate for iPhones is reportedly better than the industry average and only 7.5% of the reported failures were due to a hardware malfunction according to SquareTrade, the warranty provider for the iPhone.

18.1% of the 26% are from accidental damage. And the iPhone is doing better than the industry average.

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Perhaps you mistake my post for a knock on iPhones. It is not. iPhones are fantastic and better than than the industry average. The point of the post was to point out that comparing S65 engines to iPhones is hardly a good comparison.

[ChrisK]

US made engine - YES

China made engine - Heck NO

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

I would not do it ... that would be the time I would move to something like a C6.3 AMG ... then I will NOT worry about it my 2012 will do me well over time ... I drove my e46 for 6 years plus so my 2012 has to last longer then that and it will

[jonasaurus]

hmmm probably still consider it but the perhaps misconception of it being of a lower quality build might turn me away...

[MDyDinanM]

lol @ the ignorance in this thread.

FYI, there is already a BMW factory in China.

globalization....can't stop it.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

I buy tons of chinese made products, I happened to prefer my engine to be made by my fellow Germans - nothing wrong with that.

BMW will still be engineered by Germans, but when it comes to assembly, that's a different story. There are BMW factories already in countries outside of Germany as someone already pointed out. They could also assemble the engines in Germany, and ship them to China for final car assembly, assuming the it is more cost effective to do so. Also, BMW has divisions all over the world when it comes to designing BMW cars. So to me, its all relative since some guy at BMW Division in California or whatever is designing component A, some guy in Germany component B, and someone elsewhere in the world component C.

doesn't make a difference to me where the M brand is assembled so long as quality, standards, and performance are the same.

I'm willing to bet that if M Division started up an assembly plant in China, or Asia, no one would really notice the difference assuming everything were the same. Same goes if it started up a M assembly plant here in the US.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

It would make a difference to me where the engine would get assembled. If the engine isn't built by Dieter, Hans, Jochen, Wolfgang or Guenther - I ain't buying it. And I don't give a shit if people think this is xenophobic or not. I support strong unions, good work environments, good pay, and most importantly good beer on the job.

[coogs08]

I work in an industry that has begun to source most of their material from China the past few years. I constantly see failures due to materials not meeting their stated properties...I just don't trust chinese made parts on such a complex engine, which is highly dependent on material properties & manufacturing precision.

[Mjolnir]

Originally Posted by coogs08

I work in an industry that has begun to source most of their material from China the past few years. I constantly see failures due to materials not meeting their stated properties...I just don't trust chinese made parts on such a complex engine, which is highly dependent on material properties & manufacturing precision.

How dare you speak the truth here you horrific xenophobe.

[gpitts]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

They really don't have to do that.

I travel to PRC 5-6 times a year and know a reasonable amount about the car market there. The cost of an imported vehicle in PRC is about 2x to 3x than the US pricing - luxury vehicles tend to be closer to 3x. So an M3 would cost an equivalent of ~$220K there. Companies that manufacture vehicles in PRC sell for roughly the same pricing as what we'd see here in the US (GM and VW were leaders in PRC mfg).

That said, 7-series BMWs are in high-demand in PRC as a status symbol, but that's a fairly narrow market. Getting BMWs economically viable for the middle class could very well depend on a manufacturing presence there.

[Foodle]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

So that's how I got that flat spot on my head

Perhaps you mistake my post for a knock on iPhones. It is not.

My bad. Apologies.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

It would make a difference to me where the engine would get assembled. If the engine isn't built by Dieter, Hans, Jochen, Wolfgang or Guenther - I ain't buying it. And I don't give a shit if people think this is xenophobic or not. I support strong unions, good work environments, good pay, and most importantly good beer on the job.

well then I guess you will be disappointed since BMW designs cars from different offices around the world. Wasn't the overall design of the e9x 3 series initiated by Chris Bangle? He is not even German, but American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Bangle

And Van Hooydonk isn't German either

(i know both don't specifically design engines, but I hope you can see my point)

That and same goes for sourcing for parts.

I'm all about German Engineering, but I'm realistic that BMW is going to favor the bottom line, cost and savings.

[Kyoshi71]

No Way. They'll put Gemlins in the engine. (or maybe engines in the Gremlin)

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

The S65 engine was developed by Helmut Himmel and Herbert Vögele from the M GmbH. The engine is assembled in Landshut and Regensburg.

Origin of assembly matters to me, but obviously not everybody.

There are many opinions, but this one is mine.

Yup, to each his own.

[uplusd]

Nope. I had an X5 that blew head gasket twice before 20k miles. Was bought back by BMW under lemon law. Not sure where the engine was built but the car was assembled in South Carolina.

[apecush]

I'll preface this by stating that I come from a psuedo-manufacturing/engineering background - I would not buy a vehicle with a chinese-made engine for the following reasons:

-outsourcing manufacturing to China in my opinion has contributed to the financial state north america is currently in (eliminating jobs, etc)
-in my opinion, a significant portion of the manufacturing industry in china has little regard for worker safety
-from what I've experienced, certain industries spend more effort "looking good and professional" versus actually creating a quality product. To back this up, read up on the welding construction of the birds nest stadium in Beiging
-Offers for counterfit products (I'm not talking purses here) from China are absolutely everywhere

I shop for an alternative to Chinese made products whenever I can, with a strong bias to those manufactured in North America. Sure, buying third-world made goods is cheap now, but i can see what this has cost us. As far as engines are concerned, do you want them manufactured in a country that has no problem setting up "dummy factories" (to appear as though all quality measures are in place and working conditions are top notch) for foreign inspectors? I certainly don't.

[Mike van D]

Don't believe I would. Something just wouldn't seem right about it.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by apecush

I'll preface this by stating that I come from a psuedo-manufacturing/engineering background - I would not buy a vehicle with a chinese-made engine for the following reasons:

-outsourcing manufacturing to China in my opinion has contributed to the financial state north america is currently in (eliminating jobs, etc)
-in my opinion, a significant portion of the manufacturing industry in china has little regard for worker safety
-from what I've experienced, certain industries spend more effort "looking good and professional" versus actually creating a quality product. To back this up, read up on the welding construction of the birds nest stadium in Beiging
-Offers for counterfit products (I'm not talking purses here) from China are absolutely everywhere

I shop for an alternative to Chinese made products whenever I can, with a strong bias to those manufactured in North America. Sure, buying third-world made goods is cheap now, but i can see what this has cost us. As far as engines are concerned, do you want them manufactured in a country that has no problem setting up "dummy factories" (to appear as though all quality measures are in place and working conditions are top notch) for foreign inspectors? I certainly don't.

Nice post.