Test drove a 2012 Porsche 911S over the weekend, surprised the M3 held up

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by persian54

now now you two... no need to fight about P cars being great or not great...

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

Love watching JC and Shift@Red go at it...

You guys make me feel like I'm back in high school .
Just 'ignored' him instead, so I'm back . You can't reason with a fanboy, so any discussion eventually escalates to name calling (what he probably engaged in by your comments ), warnings, etc. I know better .

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by christopherchenm

P sales always claim that their cars hold good value

values plummeted so fast on the 997 because there are so many variants.

Originally Posted by elp_jc

I can see why . You can also learn to drive 'properly' a turbo Civic that'd blow both cars out of the water, but that doesn't mean it'd feel right. Remember it's not how fast you go, but how you go fast . I wouldn't buy ANY 911 just because the way it handles, but that's just me. As somebody said, it's overrated, and simply not worth what they cost, but that's my opinion. And if the M3s interior is crappy, the Porsche's is downright rental material. The upcoming one will be much better, resembling the Panamera and new Cayenne, but the current layout (even with full leather), is just crap. But also old as hell, so understandable. The M3 is nothing to write home about, as I said, but much better than any 911. The 911 is just a status car, with the possible exception of the GT3, which I haven't driven yet (but it's still rear engined), so can't comment on that one.
As far as the trannies, I clearly said I'm not familiar with them since I'd never buy an automatic sports car, but glad it also has a manual mode. I knew better paddles were available, but don't know if they change gears like Ferraris and M3s. I'd be nice if they do. But I honestly don't care . Since I don't want a pissing contest with a fanboy, signing off this thread .

I hope you don't call yourself an enthusiast, because that is a very ignorant statement. People like you just don't get it...

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by crackberry

I hope you don't call yourself an enthusiast, because that is a very ignorant statement. People like you just don't get it...

Funny because that statement applies to you to the 'T'. You need to drive some more. And go back to your high school physics books so you understand what 65% of vehicle weight and engine hanging behind the rear axle does to your handling feel. Another ignored.

With all the driving 'experts' here who I could bet my house they haven't even driven the cars in question, I'm signing off after all .

[persian54]

Originally Posted by mdosu

why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.

I like leasing

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by crackberry

[....] the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.

A ~10 bhp per ton advantage is never going to give you a significantly faster car...@ ~0.4 secs faster to 100mph it simply doesn't feel much faster. I'm a long time Porsche fan (I've owned 8) and had the gen 2 997 s for a whole day and I loved driving it but there is no point in kidding yourself that its anything other than marginally quicker than the M3 (in a straight line).

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by mdosu

why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.

BTW, roughly how much dep. hit did you take your first year? In % or $ would be good...

Well my 997S MSRPd for $93K and 2.5 years later I sold the car for $54k. Just 56% of its value retained. Show me a E92 M3 that MSRPd for $72K in 2008 that sold for $40k, none that I know.

Dave

[DiavelM3]

Originally Posted by christopherchenm

Yes, any

Hmmmm, Carrera GT for me

[Seattle S65B40]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Well my 997S MSRPd for $93K and 2.5 years later I sold the car for $54k. Just 56% of its value retained. Show me a E92 M3 that MSRPd for $72K in 2008 that sold for $40k, none that I know.

Dave

You seem to be leaving out the mileage, which is a key consideration. I know of some M3s that reatailed for $72K in 2008 and Sold for 40K but had around 50K miles. How many miles did you put on in 2.5 years?

[DiavelM3]

Originally Posted by stuka

430 is not bad, only about 5K for major service.

355 is 8K for major service.

For reference, GT2 major service is 2400 bucks.

355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500

This is done every 5 years but Ferrari recently changed this and said, "This needs to be done every 3 years now." Yeah, BS!

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1

355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500

This is done every 5 years but Ferrari recently changed this and said, "This needs to be done every 3 years now." Yeah, BS!

I always thought that Ferrari is the most expensive car to maintain before owning my SL

[karussell]

Originally Posted by crackberry

If you are concerned about bang for your buck, then for sure a 911 is not a good fit for you. There is a fat premium with porsches.

On a more general note, I can understand if a porsche is not for you if you throughly test drive a car (at least to have a good idea of what the car is about). I can respect that. But, it sounds like everyone here just test drove a porsche for maybe only 5 minutes. Like what others have said, "PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus," so it sounds like people have been test driving these porsches without sport chrono or in sport plus mode. That is equivalent to judging a m car without hitting the M button. It makes a world of difference, especially with the m5 or m6.

and the 911, especially the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.

everyone should be concerned about bang for their buck. only a fool would pay more money for less value in a product. I would not have bought two 997 GT3's in the past 4 years had they not been a good value for my interests and use of the car. A 911 is an excellent fit in its market range for value. name another sports car in the sub 150k range that matches a GT3? same goes for the M3 at 75k. in this case, the M3 is compared to a 911 C2S in the 90k range and I think its better value. With the GT3 compare them to any entry level V8 supercar or even V10 supercar and its price is quite attractive for what you get.

OP was comparing New C2S to trading in his 3 month old M3. I think in this case, M3 is way better value considering the loss he would take from making the swap for a quite negligible difference in the environment he tends to drive his cars in.

[DiavelM3]

Originally Posted by karussell

everyone should be concerned about bang for their buck. only a fool would pay more money for less value in a product.

Agreed!

A 911 is an excellent fit in its market range for value. name another sports car in the sub 150k range that matches a GT3?

Does the Ariel Atom count as a sports car?

OP was comparing New C2S to trading in his 3 month old M3. I think in this case, M3 is way better value considering the loss he would take from making the swap for a quite negligible difference in the environment he tends to drive his cars in.

+1

[karussell]

try daily driving an Ariel Atom and tell me how that goes. I think more along the lines of a Z06/ZR1, F458, R8 V10, Gallardo, SLS. Z06 may be cheaper but seats are too soft, suspension is too soft, and the interior really belongs in lesser chevrolets.

[gthal]

I have driven a 997.2S and it did feel quicker than my M3... not a lot quicker but quicker. I really did notice the rear weight bias and didn't love it. Maybe it is something you get use to or learn to deal with but, IMO, it is less than ideal. The fact that Porsche needs to put 305s (or whatever) on the rear and tweak the hell out of the chassis so that you don't die at the track says the layout is less than ideal. Having said that, they have done wonders tuning out what I think is an inherent flaw. The other issue is that the Pcar is not as comfortable by a long stretch as a DD. If it were a weekend only car then great but as a daily it would not be practical or comfortable enough. But, with all of that said, I could see me owning one someday just because.

Now, I have driven in a GT3 RS and that thing is on another planet. It was the most amazing experience and that was from just sitting in the passenger seat. The sound, the feel, the holy crap I'm gonna die but yet the car pulls through a corner that physics says it shouldn't experience is just beyond. If money were no object, the GT3 RS would be my toy.

[stuka]

Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1

355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500

I was quoted 8K by a few dealerships when we were shopping for 355, so we ended up getting the 996 GT2. Something about 8K is a lot of bags and shoes by the mrs...

Shame, because I like the look of the 355 the best over 360, 430, and even the Italia.

[mact3333]

Hard for me to believe OP felt the M3 handles better than the 911...the M3 is numb feeling compared to the 911...911 much more precise and faster too...but M3 is easier to drive and alot more comfortable...911 is a true sports car whereas the M3 is a very nice compromise.

My ultimate weekend car is the GT3 RS...but I wouldnt track it cause I would be too scared...takes alot of skill to drive the GT3 RS and you can crash that thing alot easier than most cars.

[AngelinIsRich08]

Look. If you want speed and practicality, buy an X5M! 0-60 is done in 4.4 sec and it has 501 lb-ft of torque.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

You seem to be leaving out the mileage, which is a key consideration. I know of some M3s that reatailed for $72K in 2008 and Sold for 40K but had around 50K miles. How many miles did you put on in 2.5 years?

Only 20k miles..

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

Look. If you want speed and practicality, buy an X5M! 0-60 is done in 4.4 sec and it has 501 lb-ft of torque.

There is more to cars than 0-60 time... Can't believe BMW customers is turning to Muscle Car owners...

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Hard for me to believe OP felt the M3 handles better than the 911...the M3 is numb feeling compared to the 911...911 much more precise and faster too...but M3 is easier to drive and alot more comfortable...911 is a true sports car whereas the M3 is a very nice compromise.

On smooth roads the 911 is a very rewarding car to drive and this shows up best on track where it really comes alive on a high grip smooth surface.
But drive on an uneven bumpy surface and this all goes away...there are country roads near where I live that the M3 can handle with ease while you have to back off the throttle in the 997 as it completely loses its composure with the light front end darting and weaving across the road.
The M3s handling and steering is certainly less sensitive and gives less feedback but the benefit is that it tracks straight over rough roads and gives a confidence that the 911 sorely misses....the M3 would leave a 997 behind on these sort of surfaces.

[force4rmr]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I have some pretty bad roads around here and in my experience with a 997.2 GT3 (this may not be a good example because its suspension is far better than both cars) and a 997.2 Carrera S, youre seem to be exaggerating a bit. I found the 997S to be fine with bumpy roads and I thought it soaked up mid corner bumps better than my M3 when both are in sport mode. I much prefer the tactile scapel like precision of any Porsche's steering over the somewhat numb and muted M3s.

I agree with you wrt steering feel. Had a 997.2 C2S prior to my current '10 M3 and the steering feel is what I miss the most about the 911. It was very precise and direct and makes the M3 steering feel heavy and a little sloppy by comparison.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

On smooth roads the 911 is a very rewarding car to drive and this shows up best on track where it really comes alive on a high grip smooth surface.
But drive on an uneven bumpy surface and this all goes away...there are country roads near where I live that the M3 can handle with ease while you have to back off the throttle in the 997 as it completely loses its composure with the light front end darting and weaving across the road.
The M3s handling and steering is certainly less sensitive and gives less feedback but the benefit is that it tracks straight over rough roads and gives a confidence that the 911 sorely misses....the M3 would leave a 997 behind on these sort of surfaces.

If you had used the word "Corvette" instead of "911", I would tend to agree in full, but regarding Porsche, this is an exaggeration.

In my own opinion, BMWs tend to be "best" at back-road banditry and the ride/handling compromise no matter the specific vehicle, but Porsche is certainly no slouch in these arenas.

In addition, the Porsche is just flat more fun. The OP did not in fact test the Porsche on "Porsche roads" if I am to believe his description. He said they were wide and curvy, which essentially means he did not get to really experience Porsche steering and brakes to their fullest. "Wide and curvy" describes C63 roads.

On the other hand, if wide and curvy describes the roads he drives on for fun, then the M3 is definitely the better deal.