Rod Bearing Failure...

[FStop7]

You mentioned losing oil and that the light came on. Do you mean your engine dumped oil when the rod came through the block, or do you mean your oil consumption increased during the month leading up to the complete failure?


Also, I was just on RealOEM and I don't see where rod bearing part numbers changed for the M3. I see where crankshaft bearings changed, but not connecting rod bearings.

[Richbot]

From realoem.com

2008 rod bearings 11247841702/3
2008 crank bearings (up to 10/08) 11217841489

2009 rod bearings 11247841702/3
2009 crank bearings 11217841610 (several part numbers presumably for cranks that need the journals re-ground during a rebuild/reman)

Looks like the crankshaft part number has been superseded in the system with the part number for cars produced after 10/08, so crank design probably changed slightly. Perhaps a different chamfer or bearing split for manufacturing/assembly purposes? Would be interesting to have both crank bearings in my hands to do some measuring and look at radii and whatnot. Haven't heard of any crank bearing failures yet but like somebody said, the forums aren't an accurate sampling.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by FStop7

You mentioned losing oil and that the light came on. Do you mean your engine dumped oil when the rod came through the block, or do you mean your oil consumption increased during the month leading up to the complete failure?


Also, I was just on RealOEM and I don't see where rod bearing part numbers changed for the M3. I see where crankshaft bearings changed, but not connecting rod bearings.

My apologies for not being clearer, the blower issue happened months before the rod bearing failure. The oil consumption was normal during the entire time I've had the car.

I only brought the blower issue up because the engine went through a low oil situation at one time, whether it somehow contributed to the rod bearing failure or not later down the road, I don't know.

[kiloil]

Drew-you have always made wise choices in the past in regards to vendors, it seemed as though you always researched the parts and went with the best company. If Gintani didn't step up where you be at.... still with Gintani or elsewhere? I was wondering where you have been lately. No videos, nada from you. Get back into the scene quickly for all of us M3 fans.

[jimmy ny]

I have never ran a supercharger on a stock car. I certaintly would not on the S65. Its already making over 100hp per liter and the compresion is way to high. 8.5-9.1 is ideal def not 11.5. Its shoulnt be a surprise to anyone who knows about cars that this car blew up. Where is the naturally aspirated cam package with a good good set of gears? Safe and maybe a nice power increase. Not everybody wants to spend 15k on a blower and 25k on a stroker, especially on a new car, and hope everytime you drive it it doesnt blow up. Were not talking about a Camaro or Mustang.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Again, I disagree. Of the couple thousand N/A (or however many) are on this forum, the percentage should still be the same of how many blow, compared to how many don't. The sampling is large enough to get fair numbers

Nonsense. The average person doesnt subscribe to a forum for the car that they own. If you're an enthusiast you do, and enthusiasts are more likely to SC.

Originally Posted by spdu4ea

Forum sampling is not necessarily indicative of real life. There are hundreds of Supercharged cars and I'd wager most are on forums.

Although there's probably no way to document this, I'll take that bet that you're right.

Originally Posted by spdu4ea

Then consider that the average guy willing to drop $20K+ for more power probably drives more aggressively than the typical M3 owner.

Again, probably no way to document this either but my chips are in the middle. People dont buy supercharger kits for looks or to drive like they've got a Camry.

Instead, they buy them to make awesome YouTube videos (that I'm a subcriber of) against other great cars (on roads south of the U.S/Mexico boarder )

[tlr]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Not laying any blame here.... But has there been a non-supercharged engine that has blown up yet? I know we've seen a number of SC engines that have blown, by a few different SC companies.

Perhaps it's not a very good idea to SC this engine???

Seriously, first AA then Gintani. Not giving me the confidence to supercharge mine.

ESS seems to have a clean track record though. I can't recall seeing any ESS supercharged engines blown, and they seem to be the most popular by far.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

]People dont buy supercharger kits for looks or to drive like they've got a Camry. Instead, they buy them to make awesome YouTube videos (that I'm a subcriber of) against other great cars (on roads south of the U.S/Mexico boarder )

I'm starting to like you more and more.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by kiloil

Drew-you have always made wise choices in the past in regards to vendors, it seemed as though you always researched the parts and went with the best company. If Gintani didn't step up where you be at.... still with Gintani or elsewhere? I was wondering where you have been lately. No videos, nada from you. Get back into the scene quickly for all of us M3 fans.

Long time no talk.

lol, I think a few people might disagree with your first sentence, the amount of drama on the BMW forums with regards to each kit is endless it seems. But for the most part I've been happy with the BMW vendors I dealt with, most of them work hard and just want to make cars go faster, look better, etc.

I think that's a fair question, if Gintani did not step up in some way, I would have been very upset. I do think they bare some of the responsibility and they've never said otherwise, luckily it never got to that point, and it is being rectified.

A few people have been wondering and I can't blame them. I hope to be back up soon, how is your car, any plans to mod?

[Draff1]

Kudos to you for turning this into a valuable learning experience for the forum. It's obvious that you've found the limits of the S65 in terms of boost at this CR. For many considering a SC, you now have an established boundary for making a good decision.

As far as Gintani goes, never underestimate the difficulty and character it takes to do the right thing in a difficult situation. In this case it seems the OP had full disclosure and understood the risks. IMO Gintani went above and beyond.

Please keep us posted on the autopsy of the motor and the rebuild. Glad to see your DCT handling the power without incident. Good luck.

[niterider]

This problem is actually more common than people think. While I worked at BMW I personally had one s65 we had with ticking sound and was running weird with random fcs. after I took it apart and inspected I was advised by BMW to replace all rod and crank bearings. Also at BMW training their was another tech who had replaced a completely stock blown motor due to oil starvation which led to a seized bearing and a kabooom.

Most m3 owners that are not enthusiast like some one mentioned, are not on forums and u will never hear of these cases. However when u work at a dealer u see a lot more stock motor failures or prolems than u would on the forums.

Sounds to me like ur stock parts (already weak) and some boost where it makes everything work faster n harder just accelerated the failure that was already bound. Well its part of the sport, stuff happens. Dont worry, your engine is in great hands, can't wait to see u up and racing, I mean running again

[Mrbojangles]

Sorry to hear about your car Drew, I guess it's all part of the game. Gintani has great costumer service and they always put costumer satisfaction first, from what I've seen.

Originally Posted by tlr

ESS seems to have a clean track record though. I can't recall seeing any ESS supercharged engines blown, and they seem to be the most popular by far.

You honestly never know, it's pretty easy to hide things these days.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by niterider

Also at BMW training their was another tech who had replaced a completely stock blown motor due to oil starvation

What was determined to be the root cause there? I believe the 'molasses-when-cold' 10/60 oil don't cause, but contribute to the bearing failures due to 'oil starvation' on cold starts (the colder, the worse). It just takes too long to start lubricating properly, so it accelerates wear. And the colder, the worse. But with a blown motor, it's probably a necessity. I wish a corporate technical guy would SPECIFICALLY answer the question why every performance/exotic car, from Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc., call for 5/40 oil (not the typical 'BMW engineers know best' crap), and BMW for 10/60 on the M engines. Seems like a band-aid for a tolerance problem or something. I'm neither a BMW nor Ferrari fan, but there's little question a Ferrari V8 is a higher performance engine, so what excuse do they have.

[Krozi]

Originally Posted by Mrbojangles

You honestly never know, it's pretty easy to hide things these days.

Ummm....it's pretty difficult to hide things these days....

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by niterider

Dont worry, your engine is in great hands, can't wait to see u up and racing, I mean running again

Glad you will be doing the work Brian, I appreciate it.

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Where's the "duh" smilie? Just part of the game, and part of what makes modifying and/or racing cars so much fun. Most people don't have the chutzpah to mess with a car because of this phenomenon. The risks of modifying a car are very real, it's just a fact of life and I've seen too many world-class tuners blow stuff up to let anybody tell me different. Sometimes stuff breaks when it makes more power, unexpected failures happen, what once was strong enough becomes a weak link. That's why it's such a small club and it's just part of what makes it exciting.

+100

if you want to play you have to pay.

good luck Drew

[Ryboy98]

Wow Drew, sorry to hear bro! I pop back on the board and this is what i see. You're car was one major factor in my decision to s/c and to go with Gintani. The guys over there treated me right and I'm not surprised that they are handling things the way they are. They are a stand up organization and I think many are starting to see that now.

As far as modding goes you can look at it like gambling too. Many people stay at the low minimum table and bet the minimums they usually don't win or loose big but they definitely don't experience the rush of winning a large hand like those who play a little, or in some cases, alot more aggressive. At the same time the chance of losing big comes with the territory. But, who has ever heard of the house taking care of a guy that had a bad night?

Drew's car probably saw more time closer to redline than at idle, I think it is remarkable that the engine made it that far considering the factors mentioned in the op. If everyone with an S/C pushed their car as hard as Drew on a regular basis I'm sure we'd be hearing many more stories regardless of what company made the kit.

Drew, I'm looking forward to seeing more of those vids with your mad editing skills! call me and keep me posted on what's up. I think mammoth is the only place worth anything right now, might have to make another boarding trip out there. Ill let you know if I go we can all get together! GL!

Ry

[phusion974]

This is kinda off topic but is the S65 V8 motor an open deck block or closed deck?

[UA]

Originally Posted by phusion974

This is kinda off topic but is the S65 V8 motor an open deck block or closed deck?

Closed deck.

[bigjae1976]

I hope things get worked out! Kudos for pushing the limits on the S65.

Obviously, Gintani is willing to take things to the limit...and maybe a tad beyond in this case. Sub'ing to see what happens. I think we can all learn something here.

I think ESS is a much more conservative tuner...which, IMO, is why you don't see too many issues with ESS.

[DublinM3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I hope things get worked out! Kudos for pushing the limits on the S65.

Obviously, Gintani is willing to take things to the limit...and maybe a tad beyond in this case. Sub'ing to see what happens. I think we can all learn something here.

I think ESS is a much more conservative tuner...which, IMO, is why you don't see too many issues with ESS.

I do not think ESS is conservative to just be conservative. They have posted many times that it is not a good idea to run high boost on this motor. Im sure they tested the limits of this motor and set boost limits before they released their supercharger kits. Im not sure how much testing went into Drew's 9 psi setup before he installed it or if he was the test car but it sounds like if he had to do it over again he might not have run as high of boost as he did.

[duk]

I think Drew was only person courageous enough to be the guinea pig for high boost on the Gintani setup.