Two Tickets For ?????

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by username11

You deserved to get pulled over for having that fart can on a M3.

WTF!

[DOOBEE]

The civic guys ruined this for us... And it sounds like long weekend BS.

I can't tell you what the law says up here but there must be some reference level that can be used for comparison to determine if you exceed the threshold. I'd find out what, if any, legislation specifies an acceptable db. I'd be surprised to find out you are in violation. Take it to court and have the documentation available supporting that the system is street legal and meets all emissions regulations.

I just bought an M3 which came with a Meistershaft system that seems significantly louder than the AA exhaust in the previously posted clip. To make a long story short, a few weeks ago my neighbour across the street lost control of her car in reverse and creamed my truck in my driveway along with a telephone box and a light standard so I had several officers over. Luckily she missed my less than 24 hours new M3 by millimeters (check out the skidmarks) but I had to move it out of the driveway for the tow truck. One of the officers commented about how great the car sounded!

Keep us updated. I don't get down to the city too often but love the echo off the buildings.

[bigjae1976]

Sounds like BS. Using your "trained" ears to guess how loud something is impossible and so subjective. Does Canada have specific DBA thresholds?

And that's why I'm staying in Texas (liberal noise laws and common sense is in effect)...but good luck and fight the good fight.

[delrosa81]

Originally Posted by SimSimma

So on the way to dropping my kids off at the daycare this morning I got pulled over by the police. I knew I didnt do anything illegal so I wasnt sure of the cause.

When the cop approached me he mentioned that I have an improper muffler on my car that's too loud. (I have an Active Autowerke's exhaust on my '08 M3). I asked him how he knew it was too loud. I asked if there was a sound level that my car had surpassed and if he had a decibel metre to in fact deem my car to be too loud. He responds by asking if I can hear any of the other cars passing by. I mention yes and he says that they're not as loud as me. I respond by asking how do you compare a V8 engine to a 4 cylinder car. He doesnt respond but asks me for my information.

After 10 minutes he returns with 2 tickets....one for improper muffler ($110) and one for unnessary noise ($110). He tells me my options which are to "fix" my muffler and the tickets can be tossed or I can proceed to fight them in court which I plan on doing. He finishes by saying, and I quote "I know you have a nice car and like your nice car and I too have a nice sporty car that I like. I have a 1991 Camaro. But I dont need to hear your car. If I see you again I cant write you the same tickets but I will summons you to court where you can do jail time".

WTF!!! At this point I mention that I've lived in the area for over 7 years, have passed numerous police without issue and havent so much as received an infraction in my car of any kind. He says that I havent seen him before and that if he sees me again he will summons me to court.

The kicker is, that this same cop pulled my wife over in her Lexus IS250 for going through a stop sign less than a month ago (which she too is fighting) and he kept mentioning to her stuff about her "nice" car.

So, my question to you fellow M3 owners:

- Have any of you ever received such tickets for your aftermarket exhausts? If so, how did you handle it?
- Have any fellow Canadians (in the Toronto area especially) ever encountered such tickets?
- Should my wife and I file a formal complaint with his division for his behaviour and comments or will this open a can of worms with other cops coming down on us as they do tend to protect their own?

Any feedback you can provide would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Damn! The cops a loser...

[SimSimma]

Originally Posted by DOOBEE

The civic guys ruined this for us... And it sounds like long weekend BS.

I can't tell you what the law says up here but there must be some reference level that can be used for comparison to determine if you exceed the threshold. I'd find out what, if any, legislation specifies an acceptable db. I'd be surprised to find out you are in violation. Take it to court and have the documentation available supporting that the system is street legal and meets all emissions regulations.

I just bought an M3 which came with a Meistershaft system that seems significantly louder than the AA exhaust in the previously posted clip. To make a long story short, a few weeks ago my neighbour across the street lost control of her car in reverse and creamed my truck in my driveway along with a telephone box and a light standard so I had several officers over. Luckily she missed my less than 24 hours new M3 by millimeters (check out the skidmarks) but I had to move it out of the driveway for the tow truck. One of the officers commented about how great the car sounded!

Keep us updated. I don't get down to the city too often but love the echo off the buildings.

Congrats on the M3. Welcome to the club!!! And I cant believe how close your neighbour came to almost hitting it....damn!!! Good luck getting everything fixed with your truck.

I'll definitely keep you posted on how my situation progresses.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

I always marvel at the folks who put after-market exhausts on their cars knowing how loud they are and then complain when they get a ticket.

+1.

[bavarian19]

Sorry to hear, but all the more happy that I have the OEM PE on my car.

[J02 335i]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I am sooooo tired of hearing how cops put their lives on the line every day to protect all of us helpless "civilians" from the scum of the earth. Do you realize that being a cop is one of the safest jobs on the planet? Do you realize that the vast majority of cops killed on the job are killed in traffic accidents? You want to talk about people that put their lives on the line to help the average person? Try farmers, fisherman, minors, truck drivers, oil rig workers, iron workers, electricians or people in the construction trades. Every one of those is more dangerous than being a cop. If you don't believe me try the

US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The majority of cops are decent, hard working, honest folks. However, there is a not insignificant number of douche-bags wearing badges and carrying guns out there. So there is nothing wrong with people coming out and complaining when they've been treated like crap by someone who's job it is to serve and protect.

This could be the single best post I've ever seen on an internet forum.

Also good luck to the OP, fight that crap.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by username11

You deserved to get pulled over for having that fart can on a M3.

WHAT!

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

Many state laws prohibit "Anything louder than the stock exhaust," so it will really depend on the way the law is written. Start there. It's always better to know what you're fighting against.

Good point ...

Hope the OP get's it straightened out.

[Superfly_M3]

As far as I know, the decision is at the cop's discretion. However, if you have a muffler that is DOT/CARB legal, he can't do shit.

Unnessary noise ticket is bull, the only time I've seen that is with honking horns, or loud stereos.

Which division did you get a ticket from? what intersection/area.

[Superfly_M3]

The OP will not get jail time ... at least not in Toronto. This is just BS tactic from the cop.

Originally Posted by lebreeze

What a douche bag, threatening jail time over a exhaust. Canada cops really have nothing better to do.

[montreal red]

Originally Posted by SimSimma

I fully agree with Radiation Joe in that the majority of cops are decent, hard working and honest folks. I have no beef with the police. As I mentioned previously, it's difficult to put every aspect of my occurrence with the officer in a thread or it would be pages long.

I was never disrespectful or raised my voice to the officer. I referred to him as sir and only asked him in a tone of curiousity as to how my vehicle was too loud. It can be his interpretation that it is but I have a right as a citizen to put this to a challenge in court which I will do.

My next door (a retired officer) has given me much to consider. I live less than 1.5kms from the police station. Within the two years I've had the AA exhaust I've passed countless officers with neither of them raising an eyebrow. My neighbour says that there has to be a standard set for what's too loud in the eyes of the police. He believes that enough doubt in court can be given to the fact that why is my exhaust ok with most cops but not one. Where is the line drawn? As previously noted, what does this officer do when he comes across a Harley owner with a stock exhaust which is definitely louder than mine? Does he fine them as well?

I should also mention that the officer told me that our conversation was being video and audio taped. Once my trial date is set to fight these tickets I will request a copy of the video and audio which is my right before the trial. This will show the conversation that took place and how personal the officer got with me and how he threatened to summons me to court where I could do jail time if he sees me again.

I will also speak to this officer's Inspector next week to fill him in on what took place. The exhaust is one aspect of this occurrence. Being threatened in front of my kids is a whole other matter. I want it to be known that I will not run and hide in the neighbourhood that I live and pay taxes.

If this was solely about an exhaust I would've probably sucked it up and paid the fines and moved on. But I will not bury my head in the sand and stand to be threatened by someone with a badge that feels they can weild their power and disrespect those they are paid to serve and protect.

well said!

i agree that a cop should never threaten anyone for something as stupid as a loud muffler. i mean just give the ticket and move on. personally i have gotten a ticket for window tints. i had 50% tints, the officer told me that tints were illegal on the front windows of the car and proceeded to give me a ticket. he let me go after that with little drama (although he did give me a warning for my exhaust). i ended up paying the $150 tint ticket and took off my front tints not long after. cops can do their jobs but they should never be a dick while doing it.

[Seven7]

Get a lawyer, i'm from vancouver but i go to university in london ont, i just brought my m3 over and lots of ppl have told me if anything happens here in ont on the road, get a lawyer no matter what. Goodluck

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by username11

E9X is the becoming the new obnoxious "tuned" Civic of our time. Add 'CSL trunk' and loud exhaust. Not getting enough attention already? Let's make sure everyone hears you coming and going. Maybe paint the rims orange or green or add some black wheels in the wrong offset. Stock exhaust is already on the "fuck you, neighbors" side of the equation in 1st gear as it is.

What your saying is to modify your car is wrong. That is your opinion. People modify their cars as a hobby or a passion and what someone likes you make not like.

Opinions are like assholes everyone's got one

[KJ]

Originally Posted by SimSimma

So on the way to dropping my kids off at the daycare this morning I got pulled over by the police. I knew I didnt do anything illegal so I wasnt sure of the cause.

When the cop approached me he mentioned that I have an improper muffler on my car that's too loud. (I have an Active Autowerke's exhaust on my '08 M3). I asked him how he knew it was too loud. I asked if there was a sound level that my car had surpassed and if he had a decibel metre to in fact deem my car to be too loud. He responds by asking if I can hear any of the other cars passing by. I mention yes and he says that they're not as loud as me. I respond by asking how do you compare a V8 engine to a 4 cylinder car. He doesnt respond but asks me for my information.

After 10 minutes he returns with 2 tickets....one for improper muffler ($110) and one for unnessary noise ($110). He tells me my options which are to "fix" my muffler and the tickets can be tossed or I can proceed to fight them in court which I plan on doing. He finishes by saying, and I quote "I know you have a nice car and like your nice car and I too have a nice sporty car that I like. I have a 1991 Camaro. But I dont need to hear your car. If I see you again I cant write you the same tickets but I will summons you to court where you can do jail time".

WTF!!! At this point I mention that I've lived in the area for over 7 years, have passed numerous police without issue and havent so much as received an infraction in my car of any kind. He says that I havent seen him before and that if he sees me again he will summons me to court.

The kicker is, that this same cop pulled my wife over in her Lexus IS250 for going through a stop sign less than a month ago (which she too is fighting) and he kept mentioning to her stuff about her "nice" car.

So, my question to you fellow M3 owners:

- Have any of you ever received such tickets for your aftermarket exhausts? If so, how did you handle it?
- Have any fellow Canadians (in the Toronto area especially) ever encountered such tickets?
- Should my wife and I file a formal complaint with his division for his behaviour and comments or will this open a can of worms with other cops coming down on us as they do tend to protect their own?

Any feedback you can provide would be appreciated.

Cheers.

I got the exact same ticket in court in Toronto. I used the exact same line of questioning as you did in court:
- How did you know it was too loud?
- What is too loud in dB?
- Did you have a decibal reading device?

If not, he has NO measurable way of saying your car was too loud.

Long story short, the judge threw the ticket out.

It took quite a while to go through the trial because people don't normally go through trial. By the time we were finished, the people from the next time slot were already waiting in the court room.

I basically proved the cop was full of shit and people were saying to me on the way out "Hey buddy, you did a great job up there".

On my way out of the court room, 1 of the 3 cops that were stuck in the room waiting for me to finish (it's not proper if they get up midway through my trial so they had to wait until I finished) comes up to me and this bitch says to me (i.e. female officer) "I KNOW YOUR EXHAUST IS ILLEGAL AND YOU KNOW IT TOO. THE NEXT TIME I PULL YOU OVER I'M GOING TO TOW YOUR CAR AWAY!!!".

Stupid bitch didn't know shit because my exhaust was 100% LEGAL.

I would fight this for sure because this guy is full of shit.

He sounds like a jealous guy who pulls over nice cars.

I'd actually like to know his name in case he was the same prick that pulled me over!

[KJ]

Originally Posted by spyderco10

In my experience most cops are actually pretty reasonable, unless you start arguing. I've been pulled over for various things over the years. In all cases I was respectful and admitted my wrongdoing and most times I was let go with a warning. The worst thing you can do is to argue your case and try to prove he's wrong and you're right. I don't think this has ever worked in the history of man, where the driver wins an argument, and the cop admits you're right and lets you go.

If you want to argue, save it for court. If you want the best shot at avoiding a ticket in the first place, be agreeable and don't argue. Police demand respect and submission, as they should because they are tasked with enforcing the law. And if you agree with them, then they got no further beef with you. Police put their lives on the line every single day to protect you and me from the scum of the earth, and they deserve our utmost respect and appreciation. I'm tired of reading posts that bash police. For those of you who hate cops, next time you're in trouble and need help, don't call 911. Just my .02

Agree with you 100%

[Templar]

Originally Posted by username11

E9X is the becoming the new obnoxious "tuned" Civic of our time. Add 'CSL trunk' and loud exhaust. Not getting enough attention already? Let's make sure everyone hears you coming and going. Maybe paint the rims orange or green or add some black wheels in the wrong offset. Stock exhaust is already on the "fuck you, neighbors" side of the equation in 1st gear as it is.

What a douche...

[BPMSport]

I received a modified exhaust ticket on my E60 M5, which just had the DINAN rear section. Cop was a complete a$$hole like your cop - they seem to enjoy making a fuss out of the fact that you drive a nice car that sounds great. Some sort of inferiority complex that their Crown Vic's dont sound as good..

They made me go to this referee station where they tested my exhaust levels, and it was past the legal limit.

Car was totaled a couple of weeks later, so the citation was ultimately dropped. That's a sticky situation if he's threatening you on second offense. Sounds like someone that needs to have their badge taken away. I'm so sick of hearing about cops and their power trips. Two months ago I got an exhibition of speed ticket in LA because my exhaust was too loud, which is a misdemeanor, and it cost about four grand including the attorney and court costs. They make it really difficult to enjoy a nice car here, even when you aren't doing anything wrong.

Good luck!

[richardg]

there are benefits to living in shitty ol' Michigan. We have no emissions tests and you can put the craziest most street illegal shit on your car. Someone once mentioned it had to do with the fact that the big 3 test cars here and there was something in place. Don't know if that is true. I could run a full race exhaust and roll right past a police station and they just continue to radar gun for speed lol.

[airwave808]

Do the following:

1. Complain about the cops's behaviour in for of a letter
2. Read the law about "noise" and fight the ticket in court

[SimSimma]

Originally Posted by KJ

I got the exact same ticket in court in Toronto. I used the exact same line of questioning as you did in court:
- How did you know it was too loud?
- What is too loud in dB?
- Did you have a decibal reading device?

If not, he has NO measurable way of saying your car was too loud.

Long story short, the judge threw the ticket out.

It took quite a while to go through the trial because people don't normally go through trial. By the time we were finished, the people from the next time slot were already waiting in the court room.

I basically proved the cop was full of shit and people were saying to me on the way out "Hey buddy, you did a great job up there".

On my way out of the court room, 1 of the 3 cops that were stuck in the room waiting for me to finish (it's not proper if they get up midway through my trial so they had to wait until I finished) comes up to me and this bitch says to me (i.e. female officer) "I KNOW YOUR EXHAUST IS ILLEGAL AND YOU KNOW IT TOO. THE NEXT TIME I PULL YOU OVER I'M GOING TO TOW YOUR CAR AWAY!!!".

Stupid bitch didn't know shit because my exhaust was 100% LEGAL.

I would fight this for sure because this guy is full of shit.

He sounds like a jealous guy who pulls over nice cars.

I'd actually like to know his name in case he was the same prick that pulled me over!

Thanks for the input KJ.

The officer was from 11 Division and I got pulled over at Annette and Keele.

My wife and I are both fighting our tickets with this officer and have requested court dates. Last Wednesday, we met with the officer's Inspector of the Division. We came in with the approach that we werent there to try to get out of the tickets as we plan on fighting those through the proper channels in court. We explained that we were there to bring it to his attention that we were concerned on how we were treated as citizens and that we had issue with the conduct of one of his officer's.

The Inspector gave us kudos for coming in and chatting to him as he recognized that it's not an easy decision to do. He also mentioned that as citizens we have every right to voice our concerns with any officer we encounter. He said that we could file a formal complaint with the police board but we didnt feel we needed to go down that road.....yet. We explained both our situations in detail. He took notes, said he would have to review the audio and video footage, speak to the officer and get back to us with his findings which could take a month.

I mentioned that I didnt appreciate being threatened in front of my children to do jail time over an exhaust. He agreed that, while the officer was correct that I technically could be summonsed to court for breaking the law repeatedly, it is extreme for an officer to threaten jail time for an exhaust. He said there's no way that would happen.

So the Inspector finished by giving us his card and saying that we have nothing to fear in our neighbourhood and that if we ever felt threatened or targetted by any officer to give him a call directly.

So, after this meeting we feel better about reporting this incident to a superior. Time will tell what he finds or comes back with. Regardless, we will press on and fight these charges in the court.

Once I hear back from the Inspector I will post his response to our situation.

Thanks again for those that have responded with support and feedback.