Can the new M3 handle a supercharger?

ihyln · 10-14-2008, 01:22 PM

I'm in the midst of working out the details of getting a S/C built as a prototype which will go into production eventually. I can't divulge many details as it's in the infancy stages but I do have some questions.

It was noted that the DCT tranny can only handle about 440lb/ft. Would the long term reliability suffer as a result of the new torque being "close" to the max? Say 400lb/ft?

The engine is already running at a fairly high compression ratio, what kind of tolerances, if any are known about the S65 engine? What kind of boost would be tolerable before the internals would have to be beefed up? I understand this is brand new territory so I welcome any/all ideas and remarks.

edlms · 10-16-2008, 10:31 PM

G power has come out with a S/C kit.
From the details provided, it doesn't look like they are doing anything to the tranny... but how the tranny holds out should really depend on the power/torque increase. I'm unsure if this mod is limited to the manual only or not...

http://www.g-power.de/934.html?&L=1&carid=6000

hope this gives you some information to compare...

cheers

schnell325 · 10-17-2008, 02:16 AM

AA is working on one too.

Sticky · 10-17-2008, 05:22 AM

VF started working on theirs as well. The motor will handle an SC, the internals are pretty damn stout. Look at what the E46 M3 has done, it is a high rev, high comp motor as well.

Since the heads on the M3 flow so well, the gains with boost will be awesome.

I am not worried about the motor handling 5-7 psi, I am worried about the DCT coping with it. It is possible the DCT can be strengthened, but supposedly it is sealed for the lifetime. Time will tell on this one... VF's shop car is a DCT by the way.

ihyln · 10-17-2008, 08:35 AM

Thanks guys, the company that is offering it to me isn't going to give me any sort of warranty at all. I was basically told to find a 3rd party warranty that will cover these types of mods. Thing is, I looked around and didn't find anything that WILL cover these types of modifications.

Like Sticky noted I'm worried about DCT being able to cope with 420ft/lbs or something close to its max.

e46e92love · 10-17-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihyln

Thanks guys, the company that is offering it to me isn't going to give me any sort of warranty at all. I was basically told to find a 3rd party warranty that will cover these types of mods. Thing is, I looked around and didn't find anything that WILL cover these types of modifications.

Like Sticky noted I'm worried about DCT being able to cope with 420ft/lbs or something close to its max.

Dude, not that my opinion counts for anything, but no way would I let a vender use my car for experimentation in a brand-new SC kit or even a tune for that matter. Don't do it, you will live to regret it.......

Just my .02.

Cheers,
e46e92

ihyln · 10-17-2008, 09:43 AM

I don't mind letting them using my car but I need peace of mind in return and I'm not getting that so I will respectfully decline their offer.

Blip Bavarian · 10-17-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihyln

I don't mind letting them using my car but I need peace of mind in return and I'm not getting that so I will respectfully decline their offer.

good call.

ChrisFastM3 · 10-17-2008, 08:40 PM

AA can accomplish anything. All the guys at AA know what they are doing, are class act & professional. I wouldn't do any serious mods with anyone else.

icemang17 · 10-18-2008, 11:11 AM

Adding boost to a 12.0 CR motor is risky at best.....maybe 5 psi?

However the same exact DCT tranny that is in the M3 will be in the next M5-6 with its twin turbo V10 with well over 550hp....

ScottyGams · 10-18-2008, 11:21 AM

i would bet money that we will see at least 3 released FI kits within the next 3 years.

Even though the RPM range of the M3 does not play nice with turbos or superchargers, it will be done to break the 500hp barrier

Sticky · 10-18-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyGams

i would bet money that we will see at least 3 released FI kits within the next 3 years.

Even though the RPM range of the M3 does not play nice with turbos or superchargers, it will be done to break the 500hp barrier

Huh? The rev range and powerband is AWESOME for forced induction. Do you know how a centrifigual makes boost?

ScottyGams · 10-18-2008, 05:38 PM

oh, im sure it can MAKE power just fine. That is not what I meant by "play nice." My fault...

i am concerned with the lightweight aluminum engine at 8300rpm with 10 pounds of boost.

I cannot imagine the engine tolerating that stress long term

808MGuy · 10-19-2008, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihyln

I'm in the midst of working out the details of getting a S/C built as a prototype which will go into production eventually. I can't divulge many details as it's in the infancy stages but I do have some questions.

It was noted that the DCT tranny can only handle about 440lb/ft. Would the long term reliability suffer as a result of the new torque being "close" to the max? Say 400lb/ft?

The engine is already running at a fairly high compression ratio, what kind of tolerances, if any are known about the S65 engine? What kind of boost would be tolerable before the internals would have to be beefed up? I understand this is brand new territory so I welcome any/all ideas and remarks.

Shouldn't the company who's developing the S/C be doing this research not you. The fact that they are not offering a warranty would make me run, fast!

swamp2 · 10-19-2008, 02:47 AM

Look at what has been done with the RS4 as well. Specs quite similar to the E92 M3, it can handle turbo or supercharging. Longevity is of course the big question. As far as the tranny I bet the exact same tranny from the M3 gets on to the new M5, it will probably have in the neighborhood of 420 ft lb (very rough guess - not following development there much at all) and since it is rated for 440 ft lb that should be completely fine.

footie · 10-19-2008, 05:30 AM

My only concern with putting even more torque is the surge. The more you used it the bigger the chance of failure in my opinion.

10-14-2008, 01:22 PM	#1
ihyln Banned 85 Rep 3,384 Posts Drives: M3post sucks Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: M3post sucks iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	Can the new M3 handle a supercharger? I'm in the midst of working out the details of getting a S/C built as a prototype which will go into production eventually. I can't divulge many details as it's in the infancy stages but I do have some questions. It was noted that the DCT tranny can only handle about 440lb/ft. Would the long term reliability suffer as a result of the new torque being "close" to the max? Say 400lb/ft? The engine is already running at a fairly high compression ratio, what kind of tolerances, if any are known about the S65 engine? What kind of boost would be tolerable before the internals would have to be beefed up? I understand this is brand new territory so I welcome any/all ideas and remarks.
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10-16-2008, 10:31 PM	#2
edlms Private First Class 10 Rep 149 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Singapore iTrader: (0)	G power has come out with a S/C kit. From the details provided, it doesn't look like they are doing anything to the tranny... but how the tranny holds out should really depend on the power/torque increase. I'm unsure if this mod is limited to the manual only or not... http://www.g-power.de/934.html?&L=1&carid=6000 hope this gives you some information to compare... cheers __________________ GruppeM CAI, GruppeM Titanium Exhaust, Matt Black Grills, Custom Steering Wheel, Alcantara Steering Wheel, BMW Performance Steering Wheel, M Tech Pedals, M Tech Gear Knob, 19" Schmeiden Rims-Gunmetal, 3D Rear Diffuser, AA SSK
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10-17-2008, 02:16 AM	#3
schnell325 Bored at work.... 890 Rep 5,390 Posts Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Comox Valley iTrader: (8)	AA is working on one too. __________________ Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD! Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD! Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
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10-17-2008, 05:22 AM	#4
Sticky Banned 78 Rep 2,244 Posts Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu iTrader: (0)	VF started working on theirs as well. The motor will handle an SC, the internals are pretty damn stout. Look at what the E46 M3 has done, it is a high rev, high comp motor as well. Since the heads on the M3 flow so well, the gains with boost will be awesome. I am not worried about the motor handling 5-7 psi, I am worried about the DCT coping with it. It is possible the DCT can be strengthened, but supposedly it is sealed for the lifetime. Time will tell on this one... VF's shop car is a DCT by the way.
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10-17-2008, 08:35 AM	#5
ihyln Banned 85 Rep 3,384 Posts Drives: M3post sucks Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: M3post sucks iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	Thanks guys, the company that is offering it to me isn't going to give me any sort of warranty at all. I was basically told to find a 3rd party warranty that will cover these types of mods. Thing is, I looked around and didn't find anything that WILL cover these types of modifications. Like Sticky noted I'm worried about DCT being able to cope with 420ft/lbs or something close to its max.
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10-17-2008, 09:43 AM	#7
ihyln Banned 85 Rep 3,384 Posts Drives: M3post sucks Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: M3post sucks iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	I don't mind letting them using my car but I need peace of mind in return and I'm not getting that so I will respectfully decline their offer.
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10-17-2008, 08:40 PM	#9
ChrisFastM3 Captain 91 Rep 676 Posts Drives: E46 M3 vert w/ LOTS of mods Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (0)	AA can accomplish anything. All the guys at AA know what they are doing, are class act & professional. I wouldn't do any serious mods with anyone else.
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10-18-2008, 11:11 AM	#10
icemang17 Captain 41 Rep 644 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stockton CA iTrader: (0)	Adding boost to a 12.0 CR motor is risky at best.....maybe 5 psi? However the same exact DCT tranny that is in the M3 will be in the next M5-6 with its twin turbo V10 with well over 550hp.... __________________ Brian 2008 E92 M3, MR, DCT, extended BB leather, loaded! 1988 Porsche 928S4, Guards red/Champagne leather 1989 Porsche 928S4 track beast!!!
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10-18-2008, 11:21 AM	#11
ScottyGams Uber-Lee7 Member 47 Rep 1,440 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (2)	i would bet money that we will see at least 3 released FI kits within the next 3 years. Even though the RPM range of the M3 does not play nice with turbos or superchargers, it will be done to break the 500hp barrier __________________ http://www.facebook.com/Scotty.Gammon
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10-18-2008, 05:38 PM	#13
ScottyGams Uber-Lee7 Member 47 Rep 1,440 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (2)	oh, im sure it can MAKE power just fine. That is not what I meant by "play nice." My fault... i am concerned with the lightweight aluminum engine at 8300rpm with 10 pounds of boost. I cannot imagine the engine tolerating that stress long term __________________ http://www.facebook.com/Scotty.Gammon
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10-19-2008, 02:47 AM	#15
swamp2 Lieutenant General 609 Rep 10,407 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego, CA USA iTrader: (3)	Look at what has been done with the RS4 as well. Specs quite similar to the E92 M3, it can handle turbo or supercharging. Longevity is of course the big question. As far as the tranny I bet the exact same tranny from the M3 gets on to the new M5, it will probably have in the neighborhood of 420 ft lb (very rough guess - not following development there much at all) and since it is rated for 440 ft lb that should be completely fine.
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10-19-2008, 05:30 AM	#16
footie Major General 1094 Rep 8,013 Posts Drives: i4M50 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	My only concern with putting even more torque is the surge. The more you used it the bigger the chance of failure in my opinion.
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