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10-05-2009, 10:11 AM | #67 |
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10-05-2009, 10:23 AM | #68 | |
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P.S. Compared to the 2.5TFSI the 35i is kids play, lbs for lbs it destroys it. |
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10-05-2009, 11:52 AM | #69 | |
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Keep in mind that BMW deliberately detunes the N54 from the factory. I have no doubt that if BMW really wanted 340hp out of the N54, they could easily achieve that and still maintain emissions, driveability, longevity, etc.
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10-05-2009, 02:31 PM | #70 | |
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10-05-2009, 03:52 PM | #71 | |
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Sure the engine is capable of so much more but is that the point, even it's torque band width is nothing special. When you expect so much from BMW and get this it just says one thing to me........weak. Would a tuned TT-S be capable of this kind of speed? I seriously doubt it but then again there is some examples pushing 400hp so anything is possible. |
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10-05-2009, 04:14 PM | #72 |
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Footie,
As much as I love Audi , it is tiring to hear TT-RS as a 'rival' with M3. Isn't Audi TT-RS smaller,lighter sports car compare to M3? Even the M3 coupe got some back seats available for 2 adults while TT could barley fit anyone. And just because they have similar performance, doesn't mean that they are rivals. ( R8 vs. M3 on quartermile race is quite similar as well but I wouldn't dare compare the M3 to R8). I love the TT-RS and it's just a different car for different people.
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10-05-2009, 04:51 PM | #73 | ||
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Seriously, I applaud Audi for turning up the wick on the 2.0T and really do hope they bring the TT-RS stateside. But the fact that Audi is finally bringing some decent firepower to the table doesn't diminish what BMW has done with the N54.
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10-05-2009, 06:02 PM | #74 | |
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10-05-2009, 06:28 PM | #75 | |
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Swamp is right. You always talk of Audi in the best light, using words like "mighty" or whatever; words that you would never (have never, as far as I've read) use to describe any BMW.
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10-05-2009, 06:50 PM | #76 | |
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This is not a value judgment. Some folks love that grunt, and others love how the M3 comes alive and blows you away when hitting the big numbers. I love both, but as I've mentioned before, there is no way you can get lazy speed out of an M3, so there isn't a way to drive under the radar, so to speak. Bruce |
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10-05-2009, 07:24 PM | #77 | |
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And you don't get lazy when speeding. Speed means fast, both rpm and actual speed. That is what it is all about. I mean if you just want lazy lazy speed, 95% of car on the road can give you that because that is how they are built. but you can only find very few with the high rev character of the m3, gt3, ferrari, r8. To me that is special. low rev engine. well nothing really special to write home about. but sure they do give you that lazy driving feel. |
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10-05-2009, 07:36 PM | #78 | |
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10-05-2009, 11:07 PM | #79 | |
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...and no one is the wiser, including the significant other in the right seat, passersby, cops... Your statement above is complete nonsense. Below 4k, you've got a moderately quick vehicle, and that's all. You need to be on the right side of the tach to reach the magic. Nothing wrong with that, and some folks wouldn't have it any other way - yourself included, I guess. Just don't put down cars that make torque with their horsepower. Effortless "lazy" speed is appreciated by some. Bruce |
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10-05-2009, 11:07 PM | #80 | |
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The same debate surfaced in the torque vs. hp debate, the part throttle debate and in the FD swap debate as well. Sure, if you want to talk about in gear "grunt", part throttle performance, in gear acceleration times and instantaneous (or very short duration) acceleration feel then absolutely TT-RS all the way. But as soon as you allow for using what you have (meaning WOT, the best initial gear possible and the acceleration across multiple gears) it becomes a no brainer in favor of the M3. How many real races be them street, strip or track involve only a single gear? That was my point earlier to foot and now my point to you as well. I also not saying I personally don't like low rpm torque and the exhilarating feeling of strong in gear performance figures. But you have to accept that the enjoyment of these things is subjective and a preference rather than an overall measure of the best a particular car can offer.
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10-06-2009, 12:17 AM | #81 |
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Swamp, I read your words but they make not sense. What you witnessed in the figures I provided was full acceleration from each car in the lower gears, the gears where the TT had the most difference over the M3.
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10-06-2009, 12:51 AM | #82 | |
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...the M3 is 2.7sec FASTER than the TT RS, and the distance between the two cars...? When the results are not in your favor your response: If the tables were turned and the Audi was 2.7sec faster to 150mph I'm guessing the difference would go from "not much" to the Grand Canyon...lololol
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10-06-2009, 12:56 AM | #83 | |
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10-06-2009, 01:05 AM | #84 | |
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Not at all, but then just because I call it as it is and don't sugar cover everything BMW makes me somehow anti-BMW and somehow pro-Audi, I have defended quite a few brands and cars, Porsche, Nissan, Mercedes, VW, Audi and countless other but only when the data and fact seem right to me, oh and by the way I defend the M3 when required, but again only when the facts appear to be right and on this occasion they don't. |
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10-06-2009, 01:11 AM | #85 | |
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Remember, the data we have is from a standing start, not rolling as GTBoard prefer, from a rolling start maybe you will get a bit closer to the 5 car lengths but until likewise test is done it's all guesswork. M3 - -TT-RS 0-30 2.0 - 1.6 (-0.4) 0-40 2.8 - 2.5 (-0.3) 0-50 3.9 - 3.5 (-0.4) 0-60 4.9 - 4.4 (-0.5) Both shift after 60mph 0-70 6.2 - 5.9 (-0.3) 0-80 7.6 - 7.3 (-0.3) 0-90 9.1 - 8.8 (-0.3) 0-100 10.7 - 11.1 (+0.4) Change to 4th for the TT-RS, M3 shifts after 100mph 0-110 12.9 - 13.2 (+0.3) 0-120 15.3 - 15.6 (+0.3) 0-130 17.9 - 19.3 (+1.4) Change to 5th for the TT-RS, M3 shifts after 130mph 0-140 21.8 - 23.3 (+1.5) 0-150 25.8 - 28.5 (+2.7) Looking at the data again, you can see that all of the M3's gains happen above the 120mph mark, it jumps over a second between 120mph and 130mph, this I know is a shift point to fifth for the TT-RS and one thing that isn't great about the TT is the gearshift. This opinion that the gear shift is affecting it's time between these speed markers seems to be correct because the M3 gains only 0.1s on the next 10mph segment. So I'm sticking to my guns and calling it 2~3 car lengths at best. |
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10-06-2009, 01:28 AM | #86 | |
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10-06-2009, 01:36 AM | #87 | |
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YES the M3 is quicker in all out acceleration, again I'm not denying that as a fact and if you read all I have said at the start of the thread you would know this fact, but unless you drive your car flat open in every gear (which is very unlikely) the TT-RS is the quicker car for normal situations and normal day to day driving. Also factor in that on the track these two post similar times or close enough to be regarded rivals from a performance perspective. Whether you would chose a TT instead of the M3 is not important, others clearly will because even the magazines are making the comparison in group tests. Edit: This in-gear debate is my whole problem with the M3, always has been, but now we know that BMW will be shifting to FI for the next one I personally believe it will be a much better car because of this, especially so in normal daily driving. After all the M3 as so many of you highlight it's a practical family car and not an all-out sportscar. Last edited by footie; 10-06-2009 at 01:57 AM.. |
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10-06-2009, 02:01 AM | #88 |
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