RS5- it's comin' soon

[mgdsh]

Originally Posted by Epacy

First, the two bolded statements are hilarious. It is alot more than a "handful" and the posts are insanely more than "occasionally". I would be interested to know your definitions of "handful" and "occasionally".
Secondly, are you so insecure about your car that you really get all up in arms about what someone else in the world is saying about it on message boards?

I have 9 posts now... And most of the rest of us have around 20 or less. Considering how much our car has been discussed together in the news lately a few posts by a handful of members (yes: JetJockey, RI RS4, absoluteis, sytotoy, myself, and there might be a few others), isn't completely out of the question.

Way OT.

I guess being open minded enough to be willing to look @ every manufacturer with out bias is OT around these parts.

Another attack from Audi boys.

It wouldn't even sound like an attack if you simply tried to test drive one before you ran your mouth off, or are you afraid at getting laughed at for pulling up in a Maxima?

Originally Posted by lucid

1. How does that help us respect you and the other people from the Audi board who post here, and take you guys seriously?

2. And, if you don't respect BMW drivers, why do you even bother engaging them in any kind of conversation?
Today 04:06 PM

1. Drive the car first, then we'll talk. Until then trying to have an objective discussion with you guys is pointless. Been there, tried that.

2. I thought maybe by chance you guys would be open to discussing not only how close our cars have come in recent comparison tests, but how it's really great to see both brands pushing off each other to really raise the level of their products. Which can only be beneficial for us, the consumers.

Originally Posted by jworms

you know what? you're right. instead of thinking about buying the e92 M3 i should go and test drive a honda civic because maybe it's going to feel better than the M3 and i shouldn't knock the civic until i've driven one...or you can realize that the M3 and RS4 are both performance oriented cars and should be judged with performance specs in mind...otherwise why are you buying this car? yes driving the car is a given with making a decision on which one you will buy, but raw performance figures are vastly important with buying a car of this stature and with recent developments we've seen the M3 is on top and the audi fanboys just refuse to admit it. now you've got audi fanboys using the RS5 as their new savior - which i think is hilarious because i knew it'd happen when we finally got some raw numbers for the M3 that prove it outperforms the RS4 and even has the guts to compete with the over $100k R8 ( which it looks like some audi people are actually beginning to understand: http://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/59655.phtml ).

Sure, if you want to be a smart@$$ please be my guest and drive the civic.

Feel free to judge the M3 and RS4 with performance specs in mind, but unless you're using it solely for the track, most of us can't base our decision simply on a few numbers, that happen to be with in a few milliseconds of each other.

The new M3 has better performance numbers, any of us will be happy to say that, in fact we expected that, but we also expected better. We expected the new M3 to be so good that it would blow the doors off of what we're driving, but as of this point, the reviews are 50/50.

The RS5 isn't necessarily our savior, but potentially one of the cars we'll be enjoying in the future. Some of us will also pick up an E92 to enjoy one of those. I can't really speak for everyone, but when I'm ready to move on from my B7 RS4, I'll be happy to do it all over again (pick the best car on the market for me).

You can come up with ANY R8 vs. M3 comparo numbers you want, but at the end of the day the first time you see an R8 you'll still break your neck just looking at it. If you think the car is supposed to be the most performance oriented car out there, you are mistaken. The car is simply one of the single most stunning cars ever put eyes upon, with some pretty mean performance specs behind it. Most everyone of us M3 and RS4 drivers alike would only love to have one would it be practical for us. You could (as they've done while testing the car), drive it down the Las Vegas strip, some of the richer areas in Manhattan, down the strip in Miami/LA, etc and feel like you're a superstar with how many eyes will be on your car. You'll get the same effect after months or possibly years of driving one, considering how few R8s they are actually making.

Sure, you might not be getting as much 'raw' performance for the price as say a Porsche in the same segment, but a good portion of that R8 price is for exclusivity, something someone coming from an M3 will never understand.

i must say it is rather entertaining to see this large epidemic of audi fanboys registering on bmw forums with the sole purpose of trying to validate themselves for their car decision. for the audi fanboys, it was never about trying to get people to see that the RS4 is a good performing car, it was ALL about trying to get the BMW community to believe that the 2 year old RS4 is beating the big bad BMW M department...which it's obviously not.

As mentioned above, if you guys knock our cars left and right with out ever having driven one, or even possibly giving it a chance, how can we/the car possibly give have any objective input into a real discussion.

Also, as mentioned above, we never expected the RS4 to even come close to what the new M3 was supposed to do, but as many of you have alluded to, it has fallen short of a lot of expectations, including ours.

Again also as mentioned above theres merely a handful of us (that also post on the Audiworld Forums) even registered on here that are foolish enough to even try to engage in a discussion here.

While you're over there, also look around to see how many of us are actually disappointed with our cars. You'll find few and far in between of that, as opposed to entire threads dedicated to that over here. Say what you want, and the comparison tests can say what they want, at the end of the day we all LOVE our cars. We would be completely naive to think that technology won't continue and that our cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

my god, i just quickly looked through audiworld's RS4 section and i think they have us beat for number of threads on the new M3 - go figure.

Well isn't that a gross exaggeration. Out of the last 60 threads, there is exactly 2 threads dedicated to anything regarding the M3 and one of them is the EVO review. The other is a link to a video of the M3 video game simulator.

Originally Posted by The CSL

If it wasn't for M, Audi wouldn't even have an RS range of cars. Their S range never got anywhere near the M cars and Audi wanted a slice of that pie.

If Audi REALLY wanted a slice of that pie, why are they limiting themselves to such a small production number, including with the R8. They clearly have a different vision with the RS4 and R8 as opposed to what BMW has with their M series, just based on their production numbers alone.

Please tell me what you've based that on.

Originally Posted by Cant Win !!!

i do digress though.. this is an m3 post and i DID sign up to talk about the m3. a car i am VERY excited about.. and im sorry if i offended anyone. but as much as i do anticipate the new m3 audi really is bringing the pain. and it just makes me think about things.....the m3 is still my front runner... but i will never really track it. and i live in the pocono moutians.. so if u see me excited about audi. i would hope people could understand y. Honestly im not sold on either. which is why im on this message board. For information and conversation.

Watch out bud.. despite what you've mentioned if you say one more anti or one more neutral statement vs bmw around here you'll be labeled a troll. Don't worry though, you'll actually have a great car in about 9 months (if you already dont), where as these guys will still be doing the same thing they are now: talking with out even reading what you have to say.

Originally Posted by bobbo

To the Audi folks, if your car is so fun and pleasing to drive, not saying it's not, why the heck do you care to impress or be bothered with what a BMW drivers think of it. I suppose arguing on a BMW and deriving fun from ridiculing a BMW fan boy are more fun than driving or working on your beloved Audi. So the conclusion must the the RS are great cars and perform as expected but their drivers, those who like to cross post, aren't.

Bobbo, if anything we were simply open to having a discussion about the fact that a few of our cars have been mentioned around these parts lately, including the very subject of this thread: the RS5.

We also can't drive our cars all day long, and the M3 happens to be in the press releases a lot lately since its debut is going to be fairly well anticipated.

I personally can't wait for my H-sport sway bars to get here so I can throw those on and get my GMG exhaust installed.

Cheers.

I think I've pretty much said what I have to say, if you want to read it, you will. If not, oh well.

Let me also say I'll be happy to take an E92 for a test drive when it comes out, and if I'm convinced that its a better car for me at the end of the day, I'll be happy to swap for one.

[BruceWain]

Originally Posted by RI_RS4

My point was that Audi did these things before BMW. Not that it was first overall. Audi had a race winning DI engine in 2000, and had production DI engines on the road in 2001.

"I don't know where you guys get your information, but BMW's competitors are not still in the 1990's, where you seem to think they are. Performance developments do happen outside of Bavaria. Funny thing, Audi introduced DI engines to racing, introduced DI engines into production, and then introduced a high performance DI engine before BMW.".

These are your words... don't back pedal now!
By your standards Mercedes did it b4 Audi.... your point is ?

Originally Posted by RI_RS4

My point is that while the M3 is yet to be introduced in the US, yet another high performance competitor from Audi is on the horizon. The M3 design was already a reaction to the RS4, which was a reaction to the E46 M3 ... ad infinitum. Of course BMW will not sit still. I for one hope that the CSL is introduced in the US. It will be an absolutely awesome vehicle. However, based on the past, it's not clear that BWM will want to incur the cost in Federalizing it. That would be a terrible shame..

BMW has more then ONE "performance engine". How many does Audi currently have ?

Originally Posted by RI_RS4

This is just a silly statement. The M3 engine was a reaction to the RS4 engine, as has been admitted to by BMW design engineers, and required that BMW produce an engine with the same Horsepower, and one-up it by improving HP/L. These are simple design changes. BMW went to a slightly more over-square design than Audi, in order to allow for a slightly higher upper RPM limit. They also pushed the Torque and HP curves up, peaking at higher RPMs, in order to achieve this. In the process BMW sacrificed maximum and low end torque, which is one of the complaints that reviewers have had..

Yes, your statement is silly... Bmw went after a power to weight ratio to match or better the Porsche Carrera they really didn't need a V8 to match the p:w ratio of the RS4. The E46 M3 is over 100h/l as well as over square. This isn't a new design change for BMW. However, a hi rev n/a motor is a new design change for Audi. NO one complained about the lowend torque of the New M3.... where's your proof of this ?

"The M3 engine was a reaction to the RS4 engine, as has been admitted to by BMW design engineers, and required that BMW produce an engine with the same Horsepower, and one-up it by improving HP/L."

PROOF PLEASE
C55 AMG V8
AM V8
You are giving your Audi way to much credit.

Originally Posted by RI_RS4

This is a thread about the RS5. As a result, I am providing conjecture based on what little information is currently known about the RS5 design, which is rumored to be a TT V8 producing 450 HP. As we all know, NA engines do not lend themselves to significant gains with aftermarket modifications, without the addition of FI. 10% additional HP and Torque is often the limit. However, you have to admit, a high revving V8 with additional turbos would make for an interesting engine.

Don't get me wrong, I think the new M3 is a great car. I'm not too keen on some of the styling, but then again, I don't like any of the new Bangle style. To me the E46 is classic. I think the M3 motor is one of the best BMW has produced. And I'm surprised by the brakes, like most of you are. It may very well be that with race pads and fluid they will be vindicated, but the reviews are not kind in this regard.

Regardless......Modified vs. stock.
The brakes will be more then whats needed for street use.
This was the same issue in the E46 M3.

OH Now, the M3 is a great car..........
You are not fooling anyone.
I see you !

[Robert]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Bobbo, if anything we were simply open to having a discussion about the fact that a few of our cars have been mentioned around these parts lately, including the very subject of this thread: the RS5.

We also can't drive our cars all day long, and the M3 happens to be in the press releases a lot lately since its debut is going to be fairly well anticipated.

I really wish the intentions are as innocent as you proclaimed. I am on Audiworld as well and I see posts boasting attempts to stir up a hornet's nest here. (To be fair I am aware of BMW trolls there as well.)

Reality check, will you step out of your car at a track day and go to a M3 driver and state: "I also know that on a good dry track, you'll most likely take me. In absolute perfect conditions, you win. In any other conditions, I win," in name of having a discussion? Have some common courtesy and respect other people's ride and don't do what you won't do in life.

[BruceWain]

I have driven the RS4......
????

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by devo

I have to tell you Swamp; you go on and on about the fact that I previously got personal with you. I apologized, however, the reasons I did are clear. You try to be clever about bringing a personal attack on me.

Again I didn't go on and on about anything. You put words in my mouth, I corrected you and since you did that I simply asked if you can read because if you read my post literally you would not have made the claim that I said what you said I did. Simple.

We don't see eye to eye on how to judge cars or what to judge them them on. I have never said anything bad about P-cars. They are amazing and masterpieces and really fun. The only slightly negative thing I have ever said is that they are overpriced for the performance you get.

So let's just end it, again.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Sure, if you want to be a smart@$$ please be my guest and drive the civic.

Feel free to judge the M3 and RS4 with performance specs in mind, but unless you're using it solely for the track, most of us can't base our decision simply on a few numbers, that happen to be with in a few milliseconds of each other.

maybe my kind is really that rare, but i actually take my cars to the track. hell, i even take my daily driver there and run it. if you buy these kinds of cars and never take them to the track you have, in my opinion, wasted the car. so to sum it up, yes i am very interested in track oriented performance when i'm buying a car that touts handling prowess.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

The new M3 has better performance numbers, any of us will be happy to say that, in fact we expected that, but we also expected better.

you are the first audi fanboy i've seen to admit this.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

We expected the new M3 to be so good that it would blow the doors off of what we're driving, but as of this point, the reviews are 50/50.

wait, i thought you just admitted the m3 outperforms the rs4? hmm, i'm gonna have to retract my statement above about you being first because you just contradicted yourself. the reviews are 50/50 because they aren't being judged on performance aspects. instead they are based on opinions of the reviewers - steering feel, ride comfort, styling, etc. i hardly call that trustworthy and refuse to put much faith in reviews like that. like you said, if i wanted opinions of the car i'd go out and drive it myself.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

The RS5 isn't necessarily our savior, but potentially one of the cars we'll be enjoying in the future. Some of us will also pick up an E92 to enjoy one of those. I can't really speak for everyone, but when I'm ready to move on from my B7 RS4, I'll be happy to do it all over again (pick the best car on the market for me).

that's great. like i said, the rs4 goons have finally succumbed somewhat and are now instead using the rs5 as their role model. i, and lots of others on this forum, predicted it would happen and here is this thread to prove it.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

You can come up with ANY R8 vs. M3 comparo numbers you want, but at the end of the day the first time you see an R8 you'll still break your neck just looking at it. If you think the car is supposed to be the most performance oriented car out there, you are mistaken. The car is simply one of the single most stunning cars ever put eyes upon, with some pretty mean performance specs behind it. Most everyone of us M3 and RS4 drivers alike would only love to have one would it be practical for us. You could (as they've done while testing the car), drive it down the Las Vegas strip, some of the richer areas in Manhattan, down the strip in Miami/LA, etc and feel like you're a superstar with how many eyes will be on your car. You'll get the same effect after months or possibly years of driving one, considering how few R8s they are actually making.

Sure, you might not be getting as much 'raw' performance for the price as say a Porsche in the same segment, but a good portion of that R8 price is for exclusivity, something someone coming from an M3 will never understand.

i completely agree that the R8 is much more of an exotic car than the M3 is, but you won't catch me paying almost twice what the M3 costs just for the exclusivity and the same performance. you remind me of the typical bmw owner response after they lose to a corvette, "at least i drove home in a bmw." i can see the R8 owners saying the same thing after they get beat by the M3, "at least i drove home in an R8."

Originally Posted by mgdsh

As mentioned above, if you guys knock our cars left and right with out ever having driven one, or even possibly giving it a chance, how can we/the car possibly give have any objective input into a real discussion.

Also, as mentioned above, we never expected the RS4 to even come close to what the new M3 was supposed to do, but as many of you have alluded to, it has fallen short of a lot of expectations, including ours.

we didn't start this. you guys did not have to come here to try and justify your car purchase, but something must have switched on in your heads that you have some obligation to prove something. what that is, i'm still trying to figure out. the M3 is significantly better in every aspect than the previous generation M3. the doors aren't getting blown off the competition because the competition actually stepped up their game for once and it makes the performance gap that much smaller. kudos to the competition for finally doing so.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Again also as mentioned above theres merely a handful of us (that also post on the Audiworld Forums) even registered on here that are foolish enough to even try to engage in a discussion here.

While you're over there, also look around to see how many of us are actually disappointed with our cars. You'll find few and far in between of that, as opposed to entire threads dedicated to that over here. Say what you want, and the comparison tests can say what they want, at the end of the day we all LOVE our cars. We would be completely naive to think that technology won't continue and that our cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

same with us. i don't notice many people making threads about how much they hate their cars. nobody here owns the new M3 so what's your point?

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Well isn't that a gross exaggeration. Out of the last 60 threads, there is exactly 2 threads dedicated to anything regarding the M3 and one of them is the EVO review. The other is a link to a video of the M3 video game simulator.

every single thread you have over there in regards to the M3 is negative. i counted 4 threads just on the first page involving the new M3 and 8 more on the second page. that's ridiculous and just plain sad.

here's some examples from just the rs4 section on the first page:

Originally Posted by audi fanboy on audiworld

Haha.. I should photoshop something with an M3 and put it on the M3 forums

Originally Posted by another audi fanboy

NEW RS5 Pics Rumbles started on M3Post

Originally Posted by another audi fanboy

BMW figures out how to drive up M3 sales... fudge the test drive

is everyone over there 15 years old or something? instead of trying to trash our forums, why don't you go preach to your fellow audi 'enthusiasts' about your philosophy on being unbiased and mature.

[swamp2]

I think if I was an admin you would simply get an instant ban. See how democratic our admins are. That is called respect, you really need to learn some. Heck even some etiquette might not be a bad idea.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

It wouldn't even sound like an attack if you simply tried to test drive one before you ran your mouth off, or are you afraid at getting laughed at for pulling up in a Maxima?

There you go again dissing our members, so childish and not cool.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

the first time you see an R8 you'll still break your neck just looking at it... You could (as they've done while testing the car), drive it down the Las Vegas strip, some of the richer areas in Manhattan, down the strip in Miami/LA, etc and feel like you're a superstar with how many eyes will be on your car. You'll get the same effect after months or possibly years of driving one, considering how few R8s they are actually making...but a good portion of that R8 price is for exclusivity, something someone coming from an M3 will never understand.

Well at leat we know that looks, attention and cruising in "rich" areas are very high on your priority list with respect to choosing a car.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

While you're over there, also look around to see how many of us are actually disappointed with our cars. You'll find few and far in between of that...at the end of the day we all LOVE our cars...and that our cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Holy smokes can you say FAN BOY. When everyone loves everything then you are complacent, not discerning and obviously not a true fan.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

I personally can't wait for my H-sport sway bars to get here so I can throw those on and get my GMG exhaust installed.

Please tell me you didn't just say that. You have the arrogance and swagger to come over here making terrible posts and then on a BMW board rattle on with drivel about your RS4 hop ups. Give me a freaking break.

[mgdsh]

Originally Posted by jworms

if you buy these kinds of cars and never take them to the track you have, in my opinion, wasted the car. so to sum it up, yes i am very interested in track oriented performance when i'm buying a car that touts handling prowess.

Agreed. But you're also implying the RS4 wouldn't be able to put up a decent fight. It just comes down to how much you weigh track performance into your equation.

you are the first audi fanboy i've seen to admit this.

LOL, I'm not an audi fan boy. I've owned all of one audi. I don't have any specific brand loyalty, I buy cars for the car, not for the brand.

wait, i thought you just admitted the m3 outperforms the rs4? hmm, i'm gonna have to retract my statement above about you being first because you just contradicted yourself. the reviews are 50/50 because they aren't being judged on performance aspects. instead they are based on opinions of the reviewers - steering feel, ride comfort, styling, etc. i hardly call that trustworthy and refuse to put much faith in reviews like that. like you said, if i wanted opinions of the car i'd go out and drive it myself.

If all it came down to were performance numbers and anyone could test drive the cars they were interested in, we wouldn't need car magazines or car reviewing sources. That as you know, is not the case. While yes, the E92 has slightly better performance numbers than the RS4, its expected to. Its 2 years newer in technology. Then again, the reviews aren't based solely on performance numbers, theres more to a car than just pure performance, especially when things are merely a few milliseconds off here and there.

that's great. like i said, the rs4 goons have finally succumbed somewhat and are now instead using the rs5 as their role model. i, and lots of others on this forum, predicted it would happen and here is this thread to prove it.

I love the misinterpretation. The RS5 is not our role model. How could it be, it hasn't even been officially announced yet and is still nothing more than a rumor? All I know is if and when it comes out, it will be better than the RS4. Again, as mentioned above, thats just how technology works.

i completely agree that the R8 is much more of an exotic car than the M3 is, but you won't catch me paying almost twice what the M3 costs just for the exclusivity and the same performance. you remind me of the typical bmw owner response after they lose to a corvette, "at least i drove home in a bmw." i can see the R8 owners saying the same thing after they get beat by the M3, "at least i drove home in an R8."

And to each his own, yet I'm still waiting to see how the R8 got beat by the M3. I still haven't seen any real comparisons between the two, and please don't list that R8 ring time on an automatic transmission. Obviously the guy who can spend the $$ on the R8 has more money to spend, and isn't necessarily looking what you're looking for: luxury bang for the buck. You still don't have official pricing info for how much the M3 will cost in the US. I wouldn't be surprised that out the door with tax, gas guzzler, and options it runs closer to $80k than any of you have imagined.

we didn't start this. you guys did not have to come here to try and justify your car purchase, but something must have switched on in your heads that you have some obligation to prove something. what that is, i'm still trying to figure out. the M3 is significantly better in every aspect than the previous generation M3. the doors aren't getting blown off the competition because the competition actually stepped up their game for once and it makes the performance gap that much smaller. kudos to the competition for finally doing so.

No one's pointing any fingers on who started what. This isn't about justifying a car purchase. We have our cars and are happy with them. This thread was designed to discuss a rumored RS5, yet somehow its morphed into something completely different. We'd love to objectively discuss the aforementioned topic, yet you guys continue to disrespect the RS4 and other Audis when most of you have never driven one, yet you continue to praise the E92 with out ever having driven one.

At the end of the day we're all car enthusiasts in about the same price range.

same with us. i don't notice many people making threads about how much they hate their cars. nobody here owns the new M3 so what's your point?

No but there are a few threads re: how disappointed some of you are with the new M3. Even some of your own members: moss, Russian RS4 (has a deposit on an E92), etc have expressed their disappointment and been labeled as trolls.

every single thread you have over there in regards to the M3 is negative. i counted 4 threads just on the first page involving the new M3 and 8 more on the second page. that's ridiculous and just plain sad.

Personally I take those threads to be more negative towards the M3 drivers as opposed to the car.

is everyone over there 15 years old or something? instead of trying to trash our forums, why don't you go preach to your fellow audi 'enthusiasts' about your philosophy on being unbiased and mature.

We really didn't intend on trashing any forums. I'd like to bet most of us have offered some insightful comments while over here. Maybe not on every post, but that was initially our goal if nothing else. Speaking of unbiased and mature: most of us have driven an E46 (or another M3), and quite a few have owned M3s as well, along with many other car brands (ie Porsche, etc). I know you can't really say the same thing, when its easy to bet most of you have never even driven the RS4.

Originally Posted by swamp2

I think if I was an admin you would simply get an instant ban. See how democratic our admins are. That is called respect, you really need to learn some. Heck even some etiquette might not be a bad idea.

I'd be surprised if you guys even have any active admins. I'm still shocked at how you call your own members trolls: guys who have had, or do have deposits on an E92, or currently own an E46, etc.

Besides, a ban might not be such a bad thing. We've obviously seen that interacting isn't going to be much help to the vast majority of the forum members here, seeing that they are so ingrained in their thoughts: M >>>>>> ****!!!

Well at leat we know that looks, attention and cruising in "rich" areas are very high on your priority list with respect to choosing a car.

I don't own an R8, nor do I have a down payment on one. I was simply offering an explanation to why the R8 is priced as much as it is, again briefly: exotic exclusivity. Jworms seemed to get that with out a problem, maybe you should re-read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by swamp2

While you're over there, also look around to see how many of us are actually disappointed with our cars. You'll find few and far in between of that...at the end of the day we all LOVE our cars...and that our cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

vs.

Originally Posted by What I said...

While you're over there, also look around to see how many of us are actually disappointed with our cars. You'll find few and far in between of that, as opposed to entire threads dedicated to that over here. Say what you want, and the comparison tests can say what they want, at the end of the day we all LOVE our cars. We would be completely naive to think that technology won't continue and that our cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Nice. That's real classy and real mature. Completely changing around my words just so you have some kind of point to prove.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Please tell me you didn't just say that. You have the arrogance and swagger to come over here making terrible posts and then on a BMW board rattle on with drivel about your RS4 hop ups. Give me a freaking break.

I was simply mentioned why I'm not in the garage working on my car as bobbo had asked.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Nice. That's real classy and real mature. Completely changing around my words just so you have some kind of point to prove.

Do you happen to know what "..." means? It is standard grammar. There was no "complete" changing, ugh. I took the liberty of displaying a concentrated form of your greatest charms. Stay tuned for 5 minutes BTW, have a look at my next post comparing some simulations of the untouchable R8 vs the M-DCT M3...

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by gmund1948

The Europeans are actually LAUGHING at you fools !

Much like the typical pompous things we hear from you. We get plenty of laughs at silly things you Euros do as well, rest assured. I work for a company that is essentially French so I have some stories there... By the way have you noticed how many folks from the EU participate on this board and do so often, and with might I even say, a passion. Apparently not.

Originally Posted by gmund1948

The most amazing thought was why an American would want an M-3 S-RS 4/5 or AMG car, you cannot drive them fast enough to enjoy them !

Driving at autobahn speeds here in the US may not be legal but it is definitely not immoral. What happened to your "high horse" attitude in previous posts about how no one should ever dare drive fast when not on the track?

Originally Posted by gmund1948

The opinion is that most Americans wash their cars rather than drive them...Go out and Drive your cars, and respect others

Come on over for some track days, some non-professional or professional racing and you will surely see some true motorsports passion here in the US. Drop your xenophobia and go drive your car!

[The CSL]

What time does the R8 lap the 'Ring in? If it's less than 7:50, then fine, the new M3 doesn't get anywhere near it, but the 358bhp previous CSL does. I can't see the M engineers allowing the next CSL to be any slower around there than the previous one either.

[gmund1948]

I see you are from San Diego, where I went to High School
I was just There for a wonderful Porsche Parade, third I have
attended since I could walk.

Dad drove at Torrey Pines (did you know it was a race track)
Also a Ramona event (I think only 2 were held) Also spent some time on most of the race tracks in the whole Southern California Area

As a young Boy I used to go to races with a neighbor, Alan Johnson, maybe you have heard of him ? I would fetch tools. and food, and occasionally got to wash windows then haul tires

First ticket test driving a 2002 at a dealership called Cunningham if my memory serves me correctly

After driving in San Diego, I really believe that performance drivers training
is needed, Interesting enough while in San Diego, an inexperienced driver in a Corvette went off near Alpine and 2 were severely injured. they called it part of a street race, who knows.

I being an American, laugh often at European things as well. Its important
to understand the differences, But having been to Funerals of People in the US who were ill prepared to handle the speed of High performance vehicles in an area where many cars should not even be on the road (read the US)

Alot of Europeans are passionate, but are usually not as young or ill manored
as the trolls who have nothing else to do but go from Board to Board trying to
stir shit up, to be real honest,

Come over and try driving here, you will see why cupholders are almost unheard of in Europe

I know there some fantastic Motorsport events in the US, I have been on
pit crews for the Daytona 24 and Sebring and have driven Historic events
at Laguna Seca. I do as many track days as possible,

THe silliest thing I have seen is watching thousands of DUtch and Germans puting a little camping trailer on the back of their family car, (like a 318) and driving it to the French coast, lining up like sardines with their towels on the rocks of Nice. and Monte Carlo. you see more towels than beach rocks not even sand

As to the xenophobia
noun:a fear of foreigners or strangers

After living in Japan, Korea, Thailand, The Western and Eastern US, Belgium,
Italy, Slovenia and Germany I doubt I would qualify unless you added some
Masochist tendencies

(Maybe thats why I post on these forums)

Originally Posted by swamp2

Much like the typical pompous things we hear from you. We get plenty of laughs at silly things you Euros do as well, rest assured. I work for a company that is essentially French so I have some stories there... By the way have you noticed how many folks from the EU participate on this board and do so often, and with might I even say, a passion. Apparently not.

Driving at autobahn speeds here in the US may not be legal but it is definitely not immoral. What happened to your "high horse" attitude in previous posts about how no one should ever dare drive fast when not on the track?

Come on over for some track days, some non-professional or professional racing and you will surely see some true motorsports passion here in the US. Drop your xenophobia and go drive your car!

[Garrett]

The Audi R8 is a great car, not the best for the money, but a good enough departure for Audi to bring back it's name into the performance arena.

Since the RS4, Audi has been vaulted into the limelight and likes the warmth. Their putting BIGGER engines into their cars but not better engines.

So what will the RS5 have...? What will it's price be..? Who is it's target audience..?

It's no doubt the RS5 coupe will be a monster, but that level of engineering is somewhat reckless. I mean, how hard would it of been for BMW just to throw the M5/6 V10 (500hp) into the new M3 instead of spending 2 years developing a new engine..? It would be a monster too... but that just doesnt work by M Division standards. They car has something to prove as a stand-alone product.

Now, Hartge or some other "tuner" will undoubetdly slap an V10 into the new M3 and I am sure that engine cost no more than the S65 V8, but you see my point. Every aspect of the car needs to balance the other, for BMW philosophy to work.

I do not find that in Audi's design.






-Garrett

post script: A BMW mid engine V10 with a couple of small turbos... sure it would tromp any Porsche, Ferrarri or Lambo. It's just not a reponsible endevour.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

And to each his own, yet I'm still waiting to see how the R8 got beat by the M3. I still haven't seen any real comparisons between the two, and please don't list that R8 ring time on an automatic transmission. Obviously the guy who can spend the $$ on the R8 has more money to spend, and isn't necessarily looking what you're looking for: luxury bang for the buck.

The whole point of the R8 is that it's the cheapest exotic around, no? It's a "halo car" that purposefully looks sort of Italian at a substantial discount compared to Ferrari/Lambo. It's a different kind of bang for the buck, to be sure, but it's not like the R8 is blowing stuff away at the track. Hey, it comes in automatic! So uber! Let me know the MSRP and the dealer markup for the V10 version when it comes out.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

I guess being open minded enough to be willing to look @ every manufacturer with out bias is OT around these parts.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

This thread was designed to discuss a rumored RS5

You just stated that this thread was designed to talk about the RS5. So why are you going on about your experience at Chevy dealers and the Z06?
The contradictions are startling. Do you not see how you contradict yourself?

Originally Posted by mgdsh

It wouldn't even sound like an attack if you simply tried to test drive one before you ran your mouth off, or are you afraid at getting laughed at for pulling up in a Maxima?

The first part of your statement doesn't even make sense. It would still be an attack whether I test drove it or not. But then again, I wasn't even talking about your car. I was talking about the Audi forum members. So why are you even bringing this up to me??
Let me get this right.....You can only pull up to an Audi dealership in a luxury car? Sounds like Audi won't sell to many cars that way. Thanks for dropping the Audi dealership etiquette on us.
Again, another snob on here hating on someone who doesn't drive a luxury model. Some real materialistic and status conscience people on here. What does that say about Audi owners? As much as you try to point out that BMW owners are arrogant and the like...
What is your rebuttle for this personal attack, again?

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Speaking of unbiased and mature: most of us have driven an E46 (or another M3), and quite a few have owned M3s as well, along with many other car brands (ie Porsche, etc). I know you can't really say the same thing, when its easy to bet most of you have never even driven the RS4.

Ok, so most of the talk centers aroung the E92 M3 vs RS4. You say many of you have driven a BMW and some other cars. Trying to make it seem like you can compare and are unbiased. But then you state that none of us have driven a RS4. Well, none of you have driven an E92 M3. So it doesn't matter what BMW or other car you have driven/owned. How can you post such contradictory things and pass them off as if they have meaning?

[gmund1948]

Originally Posted by Cant Win !!!

i do digress though.. this is an m3 post and i DID sign up to talk about the m3. a car i am VERY excited about.. and im sorry if i offended anyone. but as much as i do anticipate the new m3 audi really is bringing the pain. and it just makes me think about things.....the m3 is still my front runner... but i will never really track it. and i live in the pocono moutians.. so if u see me excited about audi. i would hope people could understand y. Honestly im not sold on either. which is why im on this message board. For information and conversation.

Try a spell checker, Graduation may be another way of reaching the level of maturity needed.

[mgdsh]

Originally Posted by Epacy

You just stated that this thread was designed to talk about the RS5. So why are you going on about your experience at Chevy dealers and the Z06?
The contradictions are startling. Do you not see how you contradict yourself?

It's just mind boggling how you can go around talking trash about a brand simply to make yourselves feel better, when you probably have never driven anything they have to offer, especially in recent years.

The first part of your statement doesn't even make sense. It would still be an attack whether I test drove it or not. But then again, I wasn't even talking about your car. I was talking about the Audi forum members. So why are you even bringing this up to me??
Let me get this right.....You can only pull up to an Audi dealership in a luxury car? Sounds like Audi won't sell to many cars that way. Thanks for dropping the Audi dealership etiquette on us.
Again, another snob on here hating on someone who doesn't drive a luxury model. Some real materialistic and status conscience people on here. What does that say about Audi owners? As much as you try to point out that BMW owners are arrogant and the like...
What is your rebuttle for this personal attack, again?

Theres a difference to pulling up in a commuter car with out a touch of sportiness and pulling up in something a so called enthusiast would drive. It has nothing to do with the price of the car, but the type of car.

Ok, so most of the talk centers aroung the E92 M3 vs RS4. You say many of you have driven a BMW and some other cars. Trying to make it seem like you can compare and are unbiased. But then you state that none of us have driven a RS4. Well, none of you have driven an E92 M3. So it doesn't matter what BMW or other car you have driven/owned. How can you post such contradictory things and pass them off as if they have meaning?

I've also mentioned several times that I will be happy to test drive an E92 when it comes out., and even said if I feel the E92 is a better car for me, I'll happily trade my current car in, or add to the saloon. I also haven't knocked the E92 or made any claims to how it will drive. Then again, you'd be hard pressed to know that, since you basically quote 1 random line at a time. Makes me wonder if you even read my entire posts.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Despite ALL that your precious E92 still only weighs about 100 lbs less than the RS4 and would only hold a torch to the RS4 in PERFECT conditions. In anything other than perfect conditions, you can forget about it. LOL

Sorry but the RS5 is going to absolutely make you cry. It'll have 2 doors (weight reduction right there), & more HP. We don't even know the rest of the details as of yet.

If anything I must give it up to the BMW marketing division. They really know how to brainwash you guys. Apparently they've gotten you to the point where anyone that says anything remotely negative against the M3 is a troll, even if they've owned or currently own an E46.

this is your first post in this thread. hmm, call me blind but i think you're knocking the e92 M3 without ever having driven it.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Agreed. But you're also implying the RS4 wouldn't be able to put up a decent fight. It just comes down to how much you weigh track performance into your equation.

same with the audi R8 and the e92 M3...but you won't admit that huh?

Originally Posted by mgdsh

LOL, I'm not an audi fan boy. I've owned all of one audi. I don't have any specific brand loyalty, I buy cars for the car, not for the brand.

then why are you here trying to justify audi cars? you haven't even driven an RS5 yet you feel obligated to defend it. take you're own advice and shut up until you've driven both cars.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

If all it came down to were performance numbers and anyone could test drive the cars they were interested in, we wouldn't need car magazines or car reviewing sources. That as you know, is not the case.

wow, please contradict yourself again. so now you're saying that because not everyone has the opportunity to test drive both cars that we should rely on reviews?

Originally Posted by mgdsh

While yes, the E92 has slightly better performance numbers than the RS4, its expected to. Its 2 years newer in technology. Then again, the reviews aren't based solely on performance numbers, theres more to a car than just pure performance, especially when things are merely a few milliseconds off here and there.

once again, you are not a performance oriented driver as seen in your posts. we aren't talking a few milliseconds, we're talking seconds - which in the performance world is quite a bit of a difference. like i said, i'll trust my own review of the cars after driving them myself. the performance specs are the only thing i get out of reviews done by other people-everything else is subjective.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

I love the misinterpretation. The RS5 is not our role model. How could it be, it hasn't even been officially announced yet and is still nothing more than a rumor? All I know is if and when it comes out, it will be better than the RS4. Again, as mentioned above, thats just how technology works.

not an audi fanboy, eh? completely unbiased, yet you group yourself with all these other audi trolls. i'm still waiting to see how the RS5 will match R8 performance for RS4 prices. seems like a big mistake on audi's part if they go forward with that. guess we'll have to wait for the car to come out because until then you have no clue as to what will be in it so don't act as if you do. is the RS6 faster than the RS4? from what i can tell the RS4 would blow the RS6 out of the water on a track...just like the M3 vs M5. don't assume the RS5 will be any better than the RS4 because, like i said, you have no idea what technology will be put in it.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

And to each his own, yet I'm still waiting to see how the R8 got beat by the M3. I still haven't seen any real comparisons between the two, and please don't list that R8 ring time on an automatic transmission. Obviously the guy who can spend the $$ on the R8 has more money to spend, and isn't necessarily looking what you're looking for: luxury bang for the buck. You still don't have official pricing info for how much the M3 will cost in the US. I wouldn't be surprised that out the door with tax, gas guzzler, and options it runs closer to $80k than any of you have imagined.

go look it up for yourself. here's a page with a bunch of specs on it: http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/audir842fsiqc2007-2.htm
but there's a ton more where that came from. all the numbers point to it having very similar performance to the e92 M3...much more so than the RS4 compared to the e92 M3.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

No one's pointing any fingers on who started what. This isn't about justifying a car purchase. We have our cars and are happy with them. This thread was designed to discuss a rumored RS5, yet somehow its morphed into something completely different. We'd love to objectively discuss the aforementioned topic, yet you guys continue to disrespect the RS4 and other Audis when most of you have never driven one, yet you continue to praise the E92 with out ever having driven one.

At the end of the day we're all car enthusiasts in about the same price range.

why again do you praise the RS5 without even knowing the specs of it, let alone drive one? oh right, you're an audi fanboy and a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

No but there are a few threads re: how disappointed some of you are with the new M3. Even some of your own members: moss, Russian RS4 (has a deposit on an E92), etc have expressed their disappointment and been labeled as trolls.

anyone can troll. every single review that speaks of performance specs is significantly faster than both the previous generation M3 and the RS4. if they are disappointed with the reviewers opinions of steering feel, looks, etc. then...well, you know how i feel about that.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

Personally I take those threads to be more negative towards the M3 drivers as opposed to the car.

um why are you discussing the owners of BMWs? i think that makes the situation even sadder. also, i think posting all the M3 reviews, with or without the RS4 in them, is a bit obsessive.

Originally Posted by mgdsh

We really didn't intend on trashing any forums. I'd like to bet most of us have offered some insightful comments while over here. Maybe not on every post, but that was initially our goal if nothing else. Speaking of unbiased and mature: most of us have driven an E46 (or another M3), and quite a few have owned M3s as well, along with many other car brands (ie Porsche, etc). I know you can't really say the same thing, when its easy to bet most of you have never even driven the RS4.

you know what's even easier to bet? that NONE of you have driven the e92 M3.

are you done yet? this is getting tiresome for me because you can't seem to bring up any valid points without contradicting yourself.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by devo

I have learned that a few members on this board spend an inordinate amount of time and energy rebutting anything they deem contrary to their beliefs. Not that that isn't a part of human nature in all of us, but I find many of the posts to be confrontational just for the sake of being combative.

What I really find to be juvenile like behavior is when some members seem to believe that their beloved M3 is superior to cars like the R8 and other exotics. I am not necessairly a fan of the R8 but I do respect it for the beauty it beholds and for most of it's performance potential (I personally think it needs a few more ponies for the price Audi is asking, but it is what it is).

So I have to consider it amusing when members disect parts of another members post in an attempt to remove it's original context.

C'mon, cars like the R8 and other exotic types, which I won't mention (because Swamp2 ended our discussion, again; he said it's ended, so it must be so.) are in a league well above the M. You get what you pay for, simple as that. It is up to the buyer to determine if what you pay is worth the difference. Look at the Corvette Z06. It will run circles around the M, but I wouldn't consider buying it because I can go faster for similar money. The M3 is what it is, nothing else. It's not a R8, Carrera S, Ferrari or otherwise.

i never said the e92 M3 is 'superior' than the R8. I did say the performance numbers are very similar. now who's disecting parts of another member's post in an attempt to remove its original context? btw, just for kicks because you said an M3 will never be a 911 Carrera S, i thought i'd throw this in the mix: a 911 Carrera S will never be an M3. before you reply to that statement, take a minute to really think about it. if you disagree with that, then well...you're on your own.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by The CSL

What time does the R8 lap the 'Ring in? If it's less than 7:50, then fine, the new M3 doesn't get anywhere near it, but the 358bhp previous CSL does. I can't see the M engineers allowing the next CSL to be any slower around there than the previous one either.

the CSL will easily surpass the R8 in performance for probably around the same price or maybe lower - i have no doubt about that. for your sake, the R8 lapped the 'ring in 8:04

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by gmund1948

I see you are from San Diego, where I went to High School
I was just There for a wonderful Porsche Parade, third I have
attended since I could walk.

Dad drove at Torrey Pines (did you know it was a race track)
Also a Ramona event (I think only 2 were held) Also spent some time on most of the race tracks in the whole Southern California Area

As a young Boy I used to go to races with a neighbor, Alan Johnson, maybe you have heard of him ? I would fetch tools. and food, and occasionally got to wash windows then haul tires

First ticket test driving a 2002 at a dealership called Cunningham if my memory serves me correctly

After driving in San Diego, I really believe that performance drivers training
is needed, Interesting enough while in San Diego, an inexperienced driver in a Corvette went off near Alpine and 2 were severely injured. they called it part of a street race, who knows.

I being an American, laugh often at European things as well. Its important
to understand the differences, But having been to Funerals of People in the US who were ill prepared to handle the speed of High performance vehicles in an area where many cars should not even be on the road (read the US)

Alot of Europeans are passionate, but are usually not as young or ill manored
as the trolls who have nothing else to do but go from Board to Board trying to
stir shit up, to be real honest,

Come over and try driving here, you will see why cupholders are almost unheard of in Europe

I know there some fantastic Motorsport events in the US, I have been on
pit crews for the Daytona 24 and Sebring and have driven Historic events
at Laguna Seca. I do as many track days as possible,

THe silliest thing I have seen is watching thousands of DUtch and Germans puting a little camping trailer on the back of their family car, (like a 318) and driving it to the French coast, lining up like sardines with their towels on the rocks of Nice. and Monte Carlo. you see more towels than beach rocks not even sand

As to the xenophobia
noun:a fear of foreigners or strangers

After living in Japan, Korea, Thailand, The Western and Eastern US, Belgium,
Italy, Slovenia and Germany I doubt I would qualify unless you added some
Masochist tendencies

(Maybe thats why I post on these forums)

OK apology due here. It was 5 a.m. and your post really contained some xenophobic elements. You have me seriosuly beat on racing experience/attendance as well as worldliness (have been to about 15 countries though and I never act like a typical American tourist!).

I often boast, btw, that my E36 M3 has no cupholders!

Chees to another local San Diegan!

[The CSL]

Originally Posted by jworms

the CSL will easily surpass the R8 in performance for probably around the same price or maybe lower - i have no doubt about that. for your sake, the R8 lapped the 'ring in 8:04

So even Audi's finest can't beat 8 minutes. Well, I think there is even less chance the RS5 will.