Towing Vehicle Comparison - SCCA Magazine - 99 F250 vs 15 Tundra

[bigjae1976]

I'll see if I can get the article up here...anyway SCCA had an interesting tow vehicle comparison in their monthly club magazine (SCCA version of Roundel).

The main point of the comparison is 1/2 ton trucks have much higher tow capacities nowadays. Are they adequate for towing 5k-6k lbs of trailer and race car.

It was a 99 F250 V10 vs 15 Tundra V8. In summary, the F250 did much better towing, not so great for daily driving. The Tundra was the opposite. The main limitation of the Tundra was the suspension was too soft so you need to watch the tongue weight. Both were capable of towing a race car on an open trailer.

Couple of other things...

1. Newer 1/2 tons will need suspension upgrades (airbag)
2. Need to add rear cameras to older 3/4 tons, most new 1/2 tons have it standard
3. Newer 1/2 tons will get about 3mpg more towing and normal highway driving mostly due to the more modern 6 speeds vs the old 4 speeds.

Thought I'd share.

Really want to know how well a 1/2 ton will tow an enclosed trailer. Figure about 7k-8k lbs which is well within the tow rating of every 2015 1/2t truck configuration.

[JAJ]

Q: What does a true Porsche enthusiast drive to work?

A: Ford F350 Extended Cab with a towing package.

[surlynkid]

If you really want to tow, get a diesel. Forget about HP and torque numbers. When do you get that torque? I have a flat torque curve starting at 1600 rpm. Really not fair comparing a 99 anything versus a 15 anything. Of course technology is better. After you fill the bed with tires and stuff, you'll want an 8' bed as well.

[WarrantyTracker]

Thanks Bigjae. I keep seeing half-tons around and wondering, "what would those tow," but I never get around to checking it out.

Right now, I have a tow vehicle with a 5,000 lb towing capacity. Towing a car + trailer at just under that weight is manageable, but far from pleasant, and I would not go long distance with it.

But the problem is, it's a Jeep Grand Cherokee with an AMC 4.0. And the trailer is a U-Haul auto transport, on which you can't adjust the tongue weight by positioning the car.

A good trailer/truck combo depends on a bunch of different factors, and there's plenty of info out there, just need to take it all into account.

Hope you can get the article posted; I'd love to see it.

[bigjae1976]

I think the Ram 1500 2.7l diesel is an interesting option. Seems like Dodge has stepped up its game but I always question Chrysler's reliability.

I've driven a diesel 3/4 ton ext cab long bed and that thing was a total PIA to drive daily. Particularly parking the damned thing. I see what my buddy goes through driving a crew cab dually. Not sure I want to live with that. Not sure you all would want my wife parking that near your nice cars either.

Looking at history, older 1/2 tons had 5k-7k tow capacities. Newer ones are at 7k minimum and up to 11k-12k. The article pointed out that new transmission technology has changed the game towing with gas engines.

I'll try and get that article up tonight.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by JAJ

Q: What does a true Porsche enthusiast drive to work?

A: Ford F350 Extended Cab with a towing package.

interesting. complete opposite of what happens here in SoCal. in fact I was at the track yesterday at ACS. Domestics gutted caged slicks and towed in by some other domestic truck. porsches driven in. domestics lapped by porsches. Like me the other Porsche drivers have M3's as daily drivers.

[surlynkid]

yes, driving the big trucks can be quite the PITA, but you just get used to it. I can back up my 3/4 ton in my S shaped driveway without skipping a beat. into the street and off to work. if I try to do the same thing with the M3, I end up with a wheel in the yard. you get used to the big truck. my biggest pain is the manual trans (the ball of my left foot starts to hurt in rush hour traffic), but at the time, the auto trans all sucked except for the chevy Allison, and I did not want a 3/4 ton 4x4 with IFS front end. the newer auto trans are really good as the HP/TQ number climbed and the manufacturers realized they needed a real trans. my next truck will likely be a F450 crew cab, long bed, 4x4, dually platinum edition.

[ThunderMoose]

I have a 2001 GMC 2500HD diesel for towing. Just did 1350 miles to Hallett and back. Didn't even feel like I was pulling a trailer. I don't DD it though. I prefer a car.

[Richbot]

This is relevant to my life experience. I shopped all the stuff on the market and ended up with a '14 Tundra fully expecting to need need airbags mine's basically the same truck, 5.7 V8 etc as the article. I had an '04 Ram 3/4 ton with the 5.7l gasser (with 4.56 rearend, because the sweet Hemi makes peak torque at 4000rpm) before that.

I'm pulling a 24' enclosed with a 2' v-nose, 7' interior height, about 8400lb loaded with the car and all the spares.

With the Firestone bags, the Tundra's just as good or better than the 3/4 ton towing. Without it's less than ideal to say the least, due to hitting the snubbers constantly.

The Ram was a 2wd regular cab, the Tundra is a 4-door 4x4. Tundra gets 15-20% better mileage in the same conditions, better towing mileage, slightly better towing ride (but not much, and probably mostly because it doesn't have E-code tires). It's a little better on sway control than the Ram, probably because it's a 5" longer wheelbase, which I was not expecting because of the P-rated tires. Braking is better too, which I think might just be better proportioning software, or maybe because mine has the stickier A/T tires on it as opposed to the rock-hard LTX's that were on my Ram.

So yeah, I much prefer my Tundra to an old 3/4-ton. Because when I'm not towing, it's much, much better in every respect. It should be, it cost about 5x what the '04 traded in for, lol. It may be stupid but I figure if they're willing to put a factory warranty on this powertrain with the blower and an extra 175hp, it's understressed enough to flog pulling an enclosed car hauler. One thing's for, sure, I'm so glad I didn't get anything bigger. The Chevy 3/4-ton is the smallest dimensionally after you step up to that capacity, and it was a full foot longer than my '04 Ram. The Tundra fits in the same exact length, has a little bit wider mirrors, and only a little bit taller. All the 3/4-tons on the market have giant hulking front axles that hoist the front end way up in the air, require a crew cab/6.5' or quad/8' combo, and just generally drive huge. I drive my pickup in the winter when it's salty and for work trips at a rate of about 12k per year. I tow the racecar maybe 3-4 weekends a year. If I was dragging a car around, or a gooseneck trailer every other weekend, you better believe I'd get a diesel. But for my use, a 1/2-ton like the Tundra is perfect.

I do think the "a 3/4 ton from 10 years ago can be replaced by a modern 1/2-ton" meme is malarkey. In certain capabilities and numbers yes, but there's no substitute for stiff rear springs. Even the Ram 1/2-ton's air suspension gets close to maxed out and can't quite level out close to its payload limit. I knew this going in and was willing to make the tradeoffs (which mostly involve carrying a digital tire gauge to check bag pressure, and a tape to check ride height). If I hadn't done my research and purchased a Tundra thinking it could replace my 3/4-ton in towing capability outright, I'd have been one pissed consumer.

[surlynkid]

There is no new 1/2 ton that can compete with my 10+ year old 2005 Ram 2500 Cummins 4x4. Sorry. Won't happen.

[Richbot]

Nobody in here is saying it will, unless there's an echo in your head

The article compares two gas trucks and I have owned two gas trucks so I posted about my two gas trucks.

[bigjae1976]

My wife tossed the magazine...doh!

The article did make a point that...with an open trailer...the one weakness with the Tundra was the rear suspension. I don't see adding airbags as a huge tradeoff with the Tundra considering the better comfort and convenience.

Richbot ...thanks for the info on trailering with an enclosed trailer. I think that seals the deal with me as far as getting a modern 1/2 ton truck. I did want to have the flexibility to tow either an open or enclosed trailer.

[w0ady]

My buddy tows his Viper ACR-X in an enclosed trailer with his 2014 Ram 1500 no problem. Pick the right 1/2 ton and you will be fine.

[Richbot]

Weight distributing hitch makes a big difference when you are towing heavy with softer springs too. The power train and brakes on the 1/2 tons aren't the weak links cabanility wise, it's all in the springs and tires IMO. The ecoboost 3.5 for instance makes as much or more torque than a 12v Cummins, and has an additional 2500 rpm to work with.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Weight distributing hitch makes a big difference when you are towing heavy with softer springs too. The power train and brakes on the 1/2 tons aren't the weak links cabanility wise, it's all in the springs and tires IMO. The ecoboost 3.5 for instance makes as much or more torque than a 12v Cummins, and has an additional 2500 rpm to work with.

What about some aftermarket airbags on the rear axle? Would that be a good idea?

If you stiffen the suspension and put higher load tires on then you kind of destroy the ride quality...which is a big reason to go with a modern 1/2t.

Then how much of a difference does the V-nose make?

[Richbot]

Airbags are what I did but that's because I'm lazy. WDH is doing it properly

My trailer tows like a schooner. I've pulled 20' "regular" car haulers with flat fronts that tow better. Nice once you get there though. Don't think my next trailer will be a v-nose though it's nice in theory but not worth it in practice IMO.