2014 GT3 vs. 2011 E92M3 (pending)

[CalSE]

Still keeping E92M3 for track duty also.

First P-car so I need to go through the learning curve again! Anyone here have experience with both platforms and have some tips?

1,900 break-in miles to go so I can use for shopping for new tools. I already see my current M tools won't work! And can't interchange my track wheels and aero!

See you guys at the track.

Here are a couple of pics......

[surlynkid]

I own and track both.

Tip #1 - all answers for GT3 on track involve more throttle.

You will quickly realize the GT3 is an incredible track weapon compared to M3.

[1MOREMOD]

Thought this was an either or question and was gonna have to slap you.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I own and track both.

Tip #1 - all answers for GT3 on track involve more throttle.

You will quickly realize the GT3 is an incredible track weapon compared to M3.

2014 GT3?? what your opinion on the new car compared to your old 997?

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

2014 GT3?? what your opinion on the new car compared to your old 997?

Sorry. I meant I own and track a GT3 and an E92. I don't have a 2014 GT3. Probably not much difference on track with a 2014 besides PDK.

[radiantm3]

I always feel like too many inexperienced drivers are buying GT3's (not implying that any owner here is inexperienced). I've seen countless wrecked GT3's at HPDE's. Sorry, not really a tip, but be careful out there and enjoy.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I always feel like too many inexperienced drivers are buying GT3's (not implying that any owner here is inexperienced). I've seen countless wrecked GT3's at HPDE's. Sorry, not really a tip, but be careful out there and enjoy.

Not a bad thing for us owners of non-wrecked GT3s...just helps with resale value by taking the crashed ones off the market. That being said, the GT3s can be more than a handful driving near the limit that's why I keep the nannies on. There's a lot that can go wrong very quickly even with a good driver so nothing wrong with having the computer as a safety net assisting when things go wrong.

[SYT_Shadow]

this

The number of wrecked GT3s I've seen at HDPEs is staggering. Obviously they do not take well to people making mistakes and hoping the car will correct that

Too many GT3s in yellow/blue rungroups...

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

this

The number of wrecked GT3s I've seen at HDPEs is staggering. Obviously they do not take well to people making mistakes and hoping the car will correct that

Too many GT3s in yellow/blue rungroups...

There's a crowd on Rennlist that believes that you need to take the nannies off at the track if you really want to learn how to drive the GT3. For me, my car sees more street miles by far and I don't go to DE events so not like I'm racing to win anything. The goal is for me and the car to go back home in the same condition we came to the track. There are things that the nannies can really help out like when you hit debris, water, oil, coolant, etc and it will react and correct quicker than any professional driver can. Obviously I try to drive where I don't have the nannies kick it because that normally happens when my driving was off. I noticed that when I'm driving smoothly that the nannies don't really kick on much at all (especially when I ran with R6s).

[pkimM3r]

if you drive with nannies off, wouldn't you just go slower and progressively go to the limit? otherwise you're not using or experience the pleasure of said car.

this guy is a friend of mine and i can't wait to see it!

he's a pretty good driver.

POST PICS.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Not a bad thing for us owners of non-wrecked GT3s...just helps with resale value by taking the crashed ones off the market. That being said, the GT3s can be more than a handful driving near the limit that's why I keep the nannies on. There's a lot that can go wrong very quickly even with a good driver so nothing wrong with having the computer as a safety net assisting when things go wrong.

Just buy lots of rear brake pads.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3

if you drive with nannies off, wouldn't you just go slower and progressively go to the limit? otherwise you're not using or experience the pleasure of said car.

this guy is a friend of mine and i can't wait to see it!

he's a pretty good driver.

POST PICS.

The goal is to leave them on but drive such that they do not kick in. For me it is all about whether or not I want a stupid mistake to cost me $100K. Tracks with very close Armco especially.......

[Longboarder]

Wow the 991 GT3 is awesome congrats.

No one has said it yet but the most important thing is to purchase track insurance for your new $180K car. You may be a very good driver but DE's are becoming very popular and crowded and there are a number of recent crashes.

[Petros]

Why bother keeping the M3? The GT3 is a much better platform for a track car. You probably won't even drive the M3 anymore

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

Just buy lots of rear brake pads.

Actually my rear pads don't wear quicker than my fronts, when the nannies come on it's for less than a second most times. It also could be that the Endless pads that I have don't wear as fast as the OEM pads.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by CalSE

Still keeping E92M3 for track duty also.

First P-car so I need to go through the learning curve again! Anyone here have experience with both platforms and have some tips?

1,900 break-in miles to go so I can use for shopping for new tools. I already see my current M tools won't work! And can't interchange my track wheels and aero!

See you guys at the track.

Come out to the PCA/POC events coming up in Oct/Nov at Chuckwalla and BRP. Less knuckleheads at those events. What color is your 991 GT3? The one thing that I hate about the 991 GT3 is the 20 inch wheels...those tires will get expensive fast if you track on a regular basis. One guy on Rennlist is going to check if a 19 inch wheel will fit on the rear due to the 4-wheel steering.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Actually my rear pads don't wear quicker than my fronts, when the nannies come on it's for less than a second most times. It also could be that the Endless pads that I have don't wear as fast as the OEM pads.

Not quicker than fronts but quicker than not using pasm.

[mastek]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

There are things that the nannies can really help out like when you hit debris, water, oil, coolant, etc and it will react and correct quicker than any amateur driver can.

Fixed.
Otherwise, all the pro GT3 Cup Cars and RSR cars would have nannies.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by CalSE

Still keeping E92M3 for track duty also.

First P-car so I need to go through the learning curve again! Anyone here have experience with both platforms and have some tips?

1,900 break-in miles to go so I can use for shopping for new tools. I already see my current M tools won't work! And can't interchange my track wheels and aero!

See you guys at the track.

Congratulations.

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I own and track both.

Tip #1 - all answers for GT3 on track involve more throttle.

You will quickly realize the GT3 is an incredible track weapon compared to M3.

I agree with surlynkid, it may seem to simple on text, but it is quite true. When you feel you are understeering, you will need more throttle to tuck in the front; when you feel you are going too fast into a corner, you cannot lift and will need more throttle to stabilize the rear, while managing the front-end arc.

On corner entries, keep steering stable and manage your arc with the brake pedal for slow corners and with throttle for fast corners. You will be amazed how late you can brake as its dynamic balance under braking is superb. However, the front tires are quite skinny, so you cannot overload them with too much trailing of the brakes, there is a fine balance.

Controlling the rear is quite intuitive, just open the wheel as early as possible and give a lot of throttle.

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

There's a crowd on Rennlist that believes that you need to take the nannies off at the track if you really want to learn how to drive the GT3. For me, my car sees more street miles by far and I don't go to DE events so not like I'm racing to win anything. The goal is for me and the car to go back home in the same condition we came to the track. There are things that the nannies can really help out like when you hit debris, water, oil, coolant, etc and it will react and correct quicker than any professional driver can. Obviously I try to drive where I don't have the nannies kick it because that normally happens when my driving was off. I noticed that when I'm driving smoothly that the nannies don't really kick on much at all (especially when I ran with R6s).

I cannot speak for 991 electronics, but keeping the electronics on the 997 GT3s make it more dangerous near or at the limit. The electronics are really not designed for it. So, when you are at the limit in a corner, with a balanced slide and you apply the throttle, PSM thinks you are about to spin and applies the outside rear brake to stop any rotation, which then shoots you off track. Same at corner entry, if you are too sudden with the brakes, the front dive is too pronounced due to lack of enough springs, ice pedals greets you (although this happens even when you turn off the nannies, but less frequently).

After few unpleasant surprises, I turned off the nannies, except traction control. It is not about leaning the GT3 or 911 or being brave, but you cannot get near the mechanical limits of the car with the nannies safely. I hope this improved with the 991, but I doubt it withe the standard shove in the face of PTV

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by FTS

I cannot speak for 991 electronics, but keeping the electronics on the 997 GT3s make it more dangerous near or at the limit. The electronics are really not designed for it. So, when you are at the limit in a corner, with a balanced slide and you apply the throttle, PSM thinks you are about to spin and applies the outside rear brake to stop any rotation, which then shoots you off track. Same at corner entry, if you are too sudden with the brakes, the front dive is too pronounced due to lack of enough springs, ice pedals greets you (although this happens even when you turn off the nannies, but less frequently).

After few unpleasant surprises, I turned off the nannies, except traction control. It is not about leaning the GT3 or 911 or being brave, but you cannot get near the mechanical limits of the car with the nannies safely. I hope this improved with the 991, but I doubt it withe the standard shove in the face of PTV

Why does it brake the outside REAR to counteract oversteer? Everything I've read about stability control, as well as common sense, says that oversteer is best controlled by braking the outside front (and understeer best controlled by braking the inside rear). Braking the outside rear definitely seems like it could have nasty side effects, or at least be a lot less effective, especially if the rear has already begun to lose grip while the fronts are still fine -- which would happen a lot given that that's basically the definition of oversteer.

[Triple M]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Wow the 991 GT3 is awesome congrats.

No one has said it yet but the most important thing is to purchase track insurance for your new $180K car. You may be a very good driver but DE's are becoming very popular and crowded and there are a number of recent crashes.

Totally agree. Crashes (Which I've seen my fair share of at HPDE) are things that most people like to assume doesn't happen. There s a reason why pca enforces first it for advance drivers. I love the it's the beginner and intermediate guys who always crash. Other than a few pro racers on here most of us are gentleman racer at best (heck that's what they told me st skip barber a while back. Lol). Funny a few pro race teams use "race ABS", and "race traction control". My first time at any new track I always have the nannies on until I'm comfortable or just want to get silly sideways. Nannies off all the time for me = trailer

[FTS]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Why does it brake the outside REAR to counteract oversteer? Everything I've read about stability control, as well as common sense, says that oversteer is best controlled by braking the outside front (and understeer best controlled by braking the inside rear). Braking the outside rear definitely seems like it could have nasty side effects, or at least be a lot less effective, especially if the rear has already begun to lose grip while the fronts are still fine -- which would happen a lot given that that's basically the definition of oversteer.

I wish I could understand any of the logic behind any of the sw programming, I don't and I do not believe anyone outside of few at Porsche AG does either. However, I suspect that if any braking is applied to the outside front, assuming the computer thinks you are about to oversteer uncontrollably, it computes that more weight would shift to the front outside, unloading the rear, where it is needed more. I am just guessing here, I have no clue what the heck it does.

Originally Posted by Triple M

...There s a reason why pca enforces first it for advance drivers.

i think insurance is a great idea without a doubt, but which region of PCA enforces this? I have been with the PCA for 10 years, I have been a national-level instructor for 4 years and I have never heard of this.