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11-03-2012, 11:58 AM | #156 | |
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Nice shopping cart. I bet that thing hauls ass. |
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11-03-2012, 12:07 PM | #157 | ||
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When you get comments like that it's difficult to continue the discussion. I'd love for one of them to show me a vid of a supercharged M3 going all out at WOT where they are not above 6800rpm, lmao, or enjoying their Supercharged M3 on the way to the store, or passing people on the street, and going only half throttle or as if they tap the gas, and say "oh my god that was incredible", as if that's exciting or one of the reasons they spent thousands on a kit. It's always the same group who talk about this incredible TQ outside of the powerband on the S65 when rowing through the gears, either they don't own a Supercharged S65 M3, or they currently / used to own a 335I, 535I or 135I, or the blower they use does not make power in the sweet spot of the PB, where it counts going all out, shifting through each gear.
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH Last edited by DLSJ5; 11-03-2012 at 12:19 PM.. |
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11-03-2012, 12:21 PM | #158 |
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Heck even in stock form the M's juicy spot is 6,500-8,400 Rpm range......
I personally Think Andrew @ Active is a cool dude and I understand the points he's trying to make but they are not gonna Fly in the Mod world !! Heck people change out intake filters and exhausts hoping to pick up ponies yet alone supercharging ! You want a little kick in your car while headed to Kinkos go with the cheapest most basic Kit Available with decent gains.. |
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11-03-2012, 12:21 PM | #159 |
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Alright I re-track. "I don't think that people who supercharge their cars for the most part are concerned about the power the car makes at WOT at 6800" This comment was made not to say that people who buy SC kits ONLY (very important - ONLY) care about what happens above 6800. I implied that there are many more decisions why to purrchase a SC.
Last edited by Superfly_M3; 11-03-2012 at 12:30 PM.. |
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11-03-2012, 12:22 PM | #160 |
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I agree as well, but that wasn't his main point, his point was that most people don't buy a supercharger for some of the reasons you stated, it's also a no brainer at WOT where the majority of the RPM powerband is on this car.
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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11-03-2012, 12:23 PM | #161 | |
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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11-03-2012, 12:29 PM | #162 | |
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11-03-2012, 12:29 PM | #163 | |
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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11-03-2012, 12:31 PM | #164 | |
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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11-03-2012, 12:31 PM | #165 |
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11-03-2012, 12:35 PM | #166 |
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11-03-2012, 01:38 PM | #170 |
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Very cute. Group Sex... haha
Anyway, just so that nothing is confused further here I'd just like to point something out. The Rotrex C38-91 blower delivers 1134CFM adjusted to the same standards as which the Vortech is showing 1150CFM (SAEJ1723). So there is nothing between them and depending on how the blowers are geared (pulley size) you can make that CFM at various points in the RPM range. The peak airflow is extremely similar on both. That's from studying the compressor maps. How do they actually stack up against each other on the same platform? Over 6000rpm, very very similar! With the Rotrex you can clearly see this from the graphs we have posted that the HP continues to rise to the rpm limiter (8300rpm). No tailing off, no letting up. It's got the airflow..... well, if it didn't we would have not used it! Would make absolutely no sense as we have no allegiances to Rotrex! The Vortech differs in it's power delivery mainly below 6000rpm WOT but not by a huge amount. If we are aiming both blowers to make around 6.5-7 PSi there is a difference but around 1-1.2 PSi. You see this on the HKS vs Vortech graphs and there is a difference in midrange HP/Torque. The main difference comes under part load conditions and throttle response. This is where the much faster spinning Rotrex shows a significant improvement over the Vortech and it makes complete sense if you study the compressor maps and think about efficiency. However, you cannot have your cake and eat it if this is happening. What would the Rotrex also be also doing at the same time which the Vortech isn't at these lower-mid rpms ? Surely there must be a trade off? If it's able to produce more torque (therefore boost) at lower - mid rpm's it's not without a compromise. What could that be? It's producing more heat at it's obviously compressing the air more. This means you have to design a cooling system which is even more efficient than the norm. This adds costs. This adds more work in design time and testing. At the higher rpm's the amount of heat produced is around the same as expected as both blowers have similar airflow output. You can have excellent throttle response and extremely good torque throughout the entire RPM range and have the top end power to match BUT it requires a certain amount of additional engineering and therefore cost. There is a way to make the Vortech produce the same torque low-mid rpm and under partial load with the same top end power it's currently producing on kits but the costs involved and the size of the intercooler core required are not something anyone would entertain. A Rotrex C38-91 delivers a fair bit more airflow than the HKS 8550. You cannot compare these two blowers. Now, how do we know all of this? We have used Vortech on an engine that requires even more airflow to get results than the S65 which is the S62. We know the differences from a practical stand point. All the above is not from just some theoretical stand point but from actual real world testing (it actually costs very little to do once you are into a full blown project). We can use a Vortech if we want to and make the first production air to air intercooled Vortech setup in the world using the same plenum and intercooler. We are tried to make a system where you can have the best of all worlds. I'm glad to say, we achieved it. If people still insist on blindly insisting that the Rotrex cannot match the airflow of the V3Si even then.... well, we might just make that flat plate bracket which was designed a long time ago into production with a new intake system for those individuals... Doesn't bother us other than having to make a certain quantity of them which is no big deal. Should also point out that both blower types from actual experience have a fair bit more head room! Not that it should even be considered to be used on a stock engine! I hope the above shows a little more balance in the comparison between the two and actually for once highlighting the differences which make sense with respect to the compressor maps issued by both companies. Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 11-03-2012 at 01:47 PM.. |
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11-03-2012, 02:38 PM | #175 | |
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Currently there are no independent dyno's or customer feedback on your kit, so to be fair I can't comment on your system, and all of what you say may very well be true, if so let's see it. Based on what many of your customers say about you and your products, I'm sure your kit will be a good choice, looking forward to some customer feedback / results and congrats on the kit, developing a system that is reliable and satisfies the consumer is no easy task.
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16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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11-03-2012, 02:43 PM | #176 |
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