Which route to go --- Subs

[MrHarris]

Guys I'm a bit unsure which route to go, but I want the most for my money and I don't want the subs to over power the OEM speakers and make it sound unbalanced.


1. replace OEM subs for Earthquake SWS-8's + mid range amp

2. power OEM subs with a mid range amp

3. use a ported box with a Alpine Type R 10" or 12" sub + Alpine m500 or some other amp

I'm leaning towards option #3, mainly because I have a buddy who can get me Alpine audio products for a good price and may actually end up being the same price as replacing the OEM subs for the Earthquakes. I'm a bit torn on if I should go a single 10", single 12" or dual 10". I want the system to hit hard, but not over power my other speakers. I just want a system that sounds much better in the low end while reinforcing what I'm already using.

I do not know much about car audio, so any of you audiophiles out there can help me out that would be great. I'm a bit confused on the whole 2 ohms or 4 ohms thing. Not sure exactly what that means, especially when combining more than one sub. Also, I'm not sure if I should get an amp that serves 500watts or 1000watts of power. Any help/advice would be appreciated.


Also, how does Alpine compare to JL? Particularly the Alpine Type R's against the W6's?

[kmarei]

1 for sure
2 you will always be worried you might overpower the OEM subs and you might blow them
3 means less trunk space and a less stealth system
i have the SWS-8 and if you look in my car you can't see any changes
i mounted the amp where the OEM amp is and noting is visible
get a nice 6 channel amp that powers your whole system

only reason you'd choose 3 is if you want a lot of bass
i had planned to install a sub in the trunk and i had already bought it
after tuning the SWS-8 i decided against it
sounds good as it is now

as a frame of reference
my amps puts out 4x90 for front rear
and 120 for each sub
all into 2ohms

[MrHarris]

For a more conservative approach if I were to go for a sub in the trunk, I was thinking a alpine type r 10" + alpine m500, and set it at 300rms.

I'm afraid if I replace it with the SWS-8's, it won't produce a low enough frequency, which is what I'm looking for.


You said you replaced the amp that powers the whole system. What did you replace it with? Also, did replacing that amp improve the quality of the sound from the other speakers as well? (not the subs) PS: I have the enhanced premium sound, I thought the amp in the trunk powers only the SWS-8 subs?

[Technic]

Before anything else is done you need to decide how you are going to deal with the OEM amp digital inputs and 150W woofer outputs.

What is your budget and what is it that you feel is the major sonic deficiency in your system?

[MrHarris]

I feel the low end lacking. Also I notice certain songs, I do not hear certain low notes that I hear in my friends car.

I want to do a sub upgrade first. I don't have a budget but cheaper the better. I don't need the super high end stuff or anything, I just want good quality components and good quality sound. I get about half off all Alpine car audio equipment, so factor that in for cost.


How should I go about dealing with the OEM amp digital input and 150w sub outputs?

[jml]

A box in the trunk adds a lot of weight too ~50lbs. The only reason I would ever consider going down this route is because the stock subs in the individual audio system appear to be acting as mid-bass drivers to 200Hz, something VERY difficult to recreate with aftermarket subs, especially with Dirac which is heavily manipulating frequency response in the time domain. The SWS8s start breaking up over 120Hz - you you'll end up with a hole from 120-200Hz. I've used the stock eq to fill it, but with some instruments it still seems a bit weak.

Whatever you do, make sure you can tune the subs - relative volume, eq, crossover and sub-sonic. That will allow you to get the most out of what little headroom you get with replacement 8" subs. Overall I'm pretty happy with the SWS8 upgrade with a 500W amp, I've been able to tailor the response and volume to make the system sound like it should have from the factory.

[MrHarris]

So what exactly will I need if I want to go with the Earthquake SWS?

I don't want any kind of "hole" that I have to fill with the EQ. I thought the SWS can go higher than 120hz?
Do you find the Earthquake SWS-8 hitting low enough notes?

I researched and saw that the 10" Alpine Type R sub has a frequency response of 26hz-600hz, would this be enough to "fill" that hole? I'm not really worried about an extra 20-40lbs.

[jml]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

So what exactly will I need if I want to go with the Earthquake SWS?

I don't want any kind of "hole" that I have to fill with the EQ. I thought the SWS can go higher than 120hz?
Do you find the Earthquake SWS-8 hitting low enough notes?

I researched and saw that the 10" Alpine Type R sub has a frequency response of 26hz-600hz, would this be enough to "fill" that hole? I'm not really worried about an extra 20-40lbs.

Sent you a PM, but I'll just post here for everyone.

I upgraded just the 8" OEM subs under the seats. To do this required
1) ($150-200) a mid-range 500W mono amp, though a 2 channel or bridged 4-channel would give a tad better quality by maintaining the stereo channels - but it's very hard to find a low cost 2-4 channel digital unit that is high efficiency such that it does not generate so much heat that mounting it near the OEM amp will cause problems.
2) ($250) two 4 ohm SWS8 subs
3) ($25-50) An 8guage amp wiring kit with a 50/60amp fuse
4) ($5) a couple OEM parts to connect into the OEM battery bus in the trunk
5) ($70) The MX1 to act ass a crossover/eq and remote turn-on. The remote turn on prevents you have having to dig around to find a switched 12v line to tell the system to turn on when the car turns on. It takes the signal from the OEM amp to the subs and turns it into a RCA-level input for the amp. The MX1 can handle up to 400W from the OEM amp, more than enough for this application. It also has a crossover, parametric EQ, subsonic filter, and remote volume control (which I have in the glovebox). All VERY good things that will help you get the most from the system.
6) ($15) speaker wire to run from the trunk to the sub locations - though Technic has said he is creating a wiring harness that will allow you to use the OEM wiring.
7) You can use a bit of speaker wire as the power lines for the MX1
7) ($5) Weatherizing foam tape to act as a gasket and spacer for the subs to fit into the OEM sub boxes.


The most difficult parts of the install for me were:
1) Getting the subs to fit into the OEM boxes - I am a perfectionist, so I was looking for an excellent seal and to maintain the stock grill. I used nuts as spacers for the subs and grill, and used the foam to seal the gap.
2) Tapping into the OEM amp output to get the sub audio signal. It's really not difficult, but it was cramped in the trunk - just physically challenging. If technic makes the harness, he is going to save a lot of people a lot of PITA.
3) Tuning it...even with a lot of RTA equipment, it was a challenge to get it perfect - put I did and it's MUCH improved - if the MX1 had a phase control it would have been a lot easier to tune. The hole from 120-200Hz is not so bad if you use both the OEM eq and the MX1 - and it's no where near as annoying as the lack of bass. I pumped up the 60-80 Hz region with the MX1 and the bass drum really hits you in the chest now.

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by jml

Sent you a PM, but I'll just post here for everyone.

I upgraded just the 8" OEM subs under the seats. To do this required
1) ($150-200) a mid-range 500W mono amp, though a 2 channel or bridged 4-channel would give a tad better quality by maintaining the stereo channels - but it's very hard to find a low cost 2-4 channel digital unit that is high efficiency such that it does not generate so much heat that mounting it near the OEM amp will cause problems.
2) ($250) two 4 ohm SWS8 subs
3) ($25-50) An 8guage amp wiring kit with a 50/60amp fuse
4) ($5) a couple OEM parts to connect into the OEM battery bus in the trunk
5) ($70) The MX1 to act ass a crossover/eq and remote turn-on. The remote turn on prevents you have having to dig around to find a switched 12v line to tell the system to turn on when the car turns on. It takes the signal from the OEM amp to the subs and turns it into a RCA-level input for the amp. The MX1 can handle up to 400W from the OEM amp, more than enough for this application. It also has a crossover, parametric EQ, subsonic filter, and remote volume control (which I have in the glovebox). All VERY good things that will help you get the most from the system.
6) ($15) speaker wire to run from the trunk to the sub locations - though Technic has said he is creating a wiring harness that will allow you to use the OEM wiring.
7) You can use a bit of speaker wire as the power lines for the MX1
7) ($5) Weatherizing foam tape to act as a gasket and spacer for the subs to fit into the OEM sub boxes.


The most difficult parts of the install for me were:
1) Getting the subs to fit into the OEM boxes - I am a perfectionist, so I was looking for an excellent seal and to maintain the stock grill. I used nuts as spacers for the subs and grill, and used the foam to seal the gap.
2) Tapping into the OEM amp output to get the sub audio signal. It's really not difficult, but it was cramped in the trunk - just physically challenging.
3) Tuning it...even with a lot of RTA equipment, it was a challenge to get it perfect - put I did and it's MUCH improved - if the MX1 had a phase control it would have been a lot easier to tune. The hole from 120-200Hz is not so bad if you use both the OEM eq and the MX1 - and it's no where near as annoying as the lack of bass. I pumped up the 60-80 Hz region with the MX1 and the bass drum really hits you in the chest now.

How low of a frequency do the SWS-8 produce and how low does OEM produce?

[jml]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

How low of a frequency do the SWS-8 produce and how low does OEM produce?

You know, I will tell you how much of a goof I am - I was Sooooo eager to get the SWS8s in there that I didn't test the OEM system. My ears tell me that the OEM subs work well to 200Hz but drop off fast below 35Hz - and that they are not nearly loud enough relative to the other speakers for my tastes. The SWS8s is strong in this car to 20-25Hz, but pretty shitty above 120Hz. The OEM eq has tuning points at 100 and 200Hz, so you can make up for this a little with the stock mid0range units, which seem to be crossed over with a pretty shallow slope somewhere between 100 and 200.

[quality_sound]

If you were even considering a trunk mounted sub, and a ported 12 at that, then the SWS-8s will NOT be enough bass for you.

There are lightweight options that will get you the bottom end you want without adding a shit ton of weight. Something like the Stereo Integrity BM MKIII only weighs 12 pounds.

Last, you can't "set" an amp to make a certain amount of power, that's not how they work.

[Alias]

If your even considering a ported box i'd go down to a very reputable car audio shop and let them look at how much space you have available and let them build you a custom box based on what you want (sound frequency wise).

[irish_tyrant]

Just to throw this in there, I have built a ton of sub boxes for many different vehicles and setups. If you go with a ported box, you can add a nice spike at a desired frequency. Thus, if you design the box to add 6 or 12db at the right spot, you get a really good thump. With ported boxes though, the bigger the box, the better it will sound, if properly designed, ie port to volume ratio. But it will have good and weak points. Plus, its big.

On the other hand, if you design a nice sealed box, they are usually better the smaller they are. They don't have a spike but they provide a good sound across a larger range.

I would recommend the sealed route and a single 10" sub. Get the designer to build it so that it fits behind one half of your back seats properly, so you can still drop one forward to stow large gear. And have the box professionally designed. The volume of the trunk, car and type of sub, plus what you want to get out of it are all very important. Don't buy an off the shelf box. You could spend a fortune on a sub and amp but a crappy box will make it sound like sh!t.

Good luck,

Irish

[saeedg48]

#1 Please...
Make sure they don't weight too much. Every 1LB matters.

[jml]

Also, keep in mind that there is a TON of sound deadening material in the trunk, you'll need a port into the cabin somehow.

[kmarei]

if you're gonna build a box in the trunk
i have the left side trim for sale
so you can go crazy with it and still have your original one stock