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      02-22-2011, 11:42 AM   #89
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Fellas-considering the ZCP option is only $2,500 here in the states. It doesn't pinch-lets not put too much weight in clarkson's words...he has been wrong umpteen times on the show.
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      02-22-2011, 12:53 PM   #90
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E90 vs E92, DCT vs 6mt, ZCP vs non ZCP.............truth is that all of these options/bodystyles make almost no difference to the M3 around a track - the driver and track conditions are the only factors.

Buy the ZCP if you like the lower suspension and wheel design - only reason.
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      02-23-2011, 05:19 PM   #91
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I don't think Clarkson's opoinion on ZCP means much. You can't compare the wet time to the dry time of the original M3. What I was surprised at was the M3 beat the RS5 in what should have been it's element. I would guess the dry time for the RS5 would be maybe 1 second less where as the M3 would most likely be about 3 seconds faster.
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      02-23-2011, 05:41 PM   #92
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I bet Clarkson would piss himself laughing if he saw this thread.
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      02-24-2011, 12:19 AM   #93
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I just love this so very much. JC just told you ZCP guys what you already knew, it makes the car no better than the none ZCP cars. Knocks that superior attitude off your face. He's driven more cars over the years than you could ever dream of, he's no slouch. Get over it.
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      02-24-2011, 03:20 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRoaster View Post
What I was surprised at was the M3 beat the RS5 in what should have been it's element.
This. Granted it wasn't pouring rain, and was just a damp track, I too thought the RS5 would have a significant advantage. When Clarkson was driving it, it was obvious he was exaggerating its understeering characteristic, likewise the Stig was throwing the M3's tail out at every opporunity, thus slowing himself down. But when the Stig did the hot laps for the times laps, I figured in the wet the RS5 would be at least as quick. I was surprised that the M3 was a second quicker? I wonder what tires were on the RS5 and on the M3 (I'm guessing PS2s for the M3)?
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      02-24-2011, 06:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
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I just love this so very much. JC just told you ZCP guys what you already knew, it makes the car no better than the none ZCP cars. Knocks that superior attitude off your face. He's driven more cars over the years than you could ever dream of, he's no slouch. Get over it.
Does anybody know if Jeremy and the boys have published times for themselves for "star in a reasonably priced car". It would be interesting.

Clarkson can drive qickly but I don't know if he has good analytical skills relative to car behaviour as some road testers have.

I think that we have to accept that TG is entertainment and not objective or in any depth. I prefer to go by the views of the testers in the likes of Evo.
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      02-24-2011, 07:00 AM   #96
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Quote:
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I just love this so very much. JC just told you ZCP guys what you already knew, it makes the car no better than the none ZCP cars. Knocks that superior attitude off your face. He's driven more cars over the years than you could ever dream of, he's no slouch. Get over it.
He's not a slouch...but what he does do is find something he doesn't like...and then harps on it and pretends like you can't do anything but deal with whatever annoyance it is. So...at the very least...much of what he says is misleading.

As for the package...I'd of paid $2500 (if you paid MSRP) for wheels and lower suspension alone. Drop in the bucket at any rate when you're up near 70K.
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      02-24-2011, 09:47 AM   #97
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Compared to most amateurs, Clarkson is a very good driver. But, he’s in the entertainment business, and he’s bright enough to know what sells, and critical arrogance, combined with a certain buffoonery is his niche. Most of us find fault with a lot of his reviews, but yet we watch them. I watched the recent episode in which he and the boys spent some time at VIR, with him in his ever-favorite M-B. Having a lot of time on that track, I was impressed at his drifting through some of the turns. Of course, he could have ridden a bicycle through them about as quick, but it was fun to watch. And I’m sure his style would have been very different under the timer.
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      02-24-2011, 10:31 AM   #98
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This thread is so funny. At the end of the day, a tenth of a second around a track means nothing especially on the road. ZCP or not, the M3 is the benchmark and that's what matters. I'm of the camp that you buy ZCP if you like the rims.

I had initial concerns of ordering a base model (only option is Fox Red leather). I thought I'd miss the bells and whistles, but I really don't. With or without all the techno gadgets, the raw car itself is just incredible. With the E90 starting in the sub $60k region, it's hard to argue that it's not possibly the best performance value. Adding $20k worth of gadgets (some performance oriented, some luxury) is all for preference and doesn't really change the cars usability, comfort or performance.

I drive the M3 as a weekend/fun car so I somewhat enjoy my raw version, and especially like the money I saved so no regrets. Maybe I'd appreciate it more if I tracked it, but I don't, I just enjoy driving it.

Anyways, M3 > competition no matter how you configure it, that's the key point.
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      02-24-2011, 10:41 AM   #99
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I thought is was a good analysis. Certainly the comp pack doesnt really make the car that much better, and he has a history of telling people to buy the cheaper version of a car if its nearly as good. Hell on the evo X he said to by the non suped up version, cause it was almost as much fun, with a lot better milage and cheaper.
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      02-24-2011, 11:01 AM   #100
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In the US it just makes sense to get ZCP, over in the UK its almost twice as much as here so it may not be worth it. But for 3000 bucks you get those awesome 19" wheels, EDC, and a lower ride... its a no brainier. And I am pretty sure it does actually perform just a little better then a standard M3. You have to remember they tested the car in the wet, of course it will be slower, it was not a apples to apples comparison to the standard M3 they tested earlier. But from my racing experience, having wider wheels (even if the rubber is the same), a lower ride height, and a stiffer suspension all add up to faster lap times. So yes, the ZCP is faster then a standard M3.
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      02-24-2011, 11:04 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohouou View Post
In the US it just makes sense to get ZCP, over in the UK its almost twice as much as here so it may not be worth it. But for 3000 bucks you get those awesome 19" wheels, EDC, and a lower ride... its a no brainier. And I am pretty sure it does actually perform just a little better then a standard M3. You have to remember they tested the car in the wet, of course it will be slower, it was not a apples to apples comparison to the standard M3 they tested earlier. But from my racing experience, having wider wheels (even if the rubber is the same), a lower ride height, and a stiffer suspension all add up to faster lap times. So yes, the ZCP is faster then a standard M3.
...In your opinion.
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      02-24-2011, 11:17 AM   #102
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Quote:
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...In your opinion.
Well the opinion of just about anyone who races cars out there. I am not saying its a whole lot faster, but those three things I mentioned do indeed make cars go faster around a track, anyone who races would know that. So not just my opinion but ask anyone who drives a car in a timed event.
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      02-24-2011, 11:24 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohouou View Post
Well the opinion of just about anyone who races cars out there. I am not saying its a whole lot faster, but those three things I mentioned do indeed make cars go faster around a track, anyone who races would know that. So not just my opinion but ask anyone who drives a car in a timed event.
I was referring to your final statement, "So yes, the ZCP is faster then a standard M3."

What about the unsprung weight of heavier wheels and tires?
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      02-24-2011, 11:31 AM   #104
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Quote:
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I was referring to your final statement, "So yes, the ZCP is faster then a standard M3."

What about the unsprung weight of heavier wheels and tires?
A couple pounds per wheel of unsprung weight have been proven by Grassroots motorsports and other magazines to not hurt track times at all. Especially when the advantages of wider wheels, lower ride height, and stiffer suspension are going to provide better performance anyways. I would gladly give up a few pounds per wheel to be able to run a wider wheel alone in competition, but unfortunately they usually limit wheel sizes.
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      03-11-2011, 08:28 PM   #105
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Yeah!

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glad the m3 is still king of its segment
I agree. I remember friend's saying that the GTR has more power, much better performance for the price against the M3, but the M3 has that spark of magic...not just of its build quality and its fantastic sound, but also the lively-ness of it when you go tail-happy is just sensational...while the GTR is very good too, it's not so easy to drift with it. Even Nomuken-san took a bit of practice.

M3 all the way!
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      03-11-2011, 11:16 PM   #106
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Anyone have a working link for this episode?
Looks like the BBC took down the one in the OP.
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      03-11-2011, 11:20 PM   #107
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Quote:
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Anyone have a working link for this episode?
Looks like the BBC took down the one in the OP.
This is HQ:

http://www.fileserve.com/file/upDUhS...-fov.part1.rar
http://www.fileserve.com/file/qDGETQ...-fov.part2.rar
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      03-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #108
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Quote:
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Anyone have a working link for this episode?
Looks like the BBC took down the one in the OP.
This is the lower quality and smaller one:


http://www.fileserve.com/file/HjnMPA...v_xvid-fov.avi
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      03-27-2011, 06:04 AM   #109
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