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12-02-2007, 04:53 PM | #67 | |
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And if you're really far out west you can drive a lot faster than up there
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12-02-2007, 04:57 PM | #68 |
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Not pounding, but when F1 went for electronic changes I took that as a sign that real cars can and do have such transmissions
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12-02-2007, 05:01 PM | #69 | ||
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Chitown,
You had a melt down over my original post in which I stated: "Nothing against DCT, Ferrari's version on the F430 is great." So chitown are saying you love MTs? Great question. Is this what they call an abstract or formal thinking type of question. With your next Mac attack, order a couple of Big Macs and supersize the fries and drinks, then sit down and lounge around to a nice movie, Super Size Me would be a great choice. Quote:
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Don't worry, you are still popular here. Swamp said that what you say is "essentially true." |
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12-02-2007, 05:03 PM | #70 | |
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Hell, in just about every other developed country than the U.S. it's harder to get a license! Drivers' education & limits on new drivers are relatively lax here, IMO. I have had licenses in Canada, Australia and Germany (a beeatch - but good ed) and the U.S. test was easy. But, I don't want to get too as I'll start some board-war on this point
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12-02-2007, 07:33 PM | #71 | |
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During this long and never ending discussion I've tried to input to the debate that we are all different and value different aspects of driving. For clarification yet again: I think DCT is cool (as long as you drive it in semi-manual). I believe it's way better for racetracks. I also belive that at some point you have to draw a line between what humans are suppose to do, and what machines can, and what we let machines do for us. (maybe a bit too inspired by A.I and I-Robot? ) Now clarification for why _I_ prefere manual transmission. I'm never going to spank my baby at a racetrack. I like to be engaged in things I love. So... Because of that I like to be engaged in what I love, which in regard to this debate is driving, I should have to hunt my own food? I love to eat as well, let's invent a robot to feed me so that I can stop using my arms to flip and scotch the food into my mouth. It's just small and simple movements, therefor little effort and therefore low reward? I find it more fun on public roads to have to make constant decisions, and then take actions all the time, instead of just pushing a lever whenever I need to shift up/down. Because of the shifting taking about 0.5 secs (when driving normally), you always plan your driving. If all I had to do was to push a button and it would shift down in .03 secs then I would be shifting more often without having to think about why I really shifted. Remember, we are all different and value different things. |
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12-02-2007, 07:36 PM | #72 | ||
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12-02-2007, 07:41 PM | #73 |
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Sure - I get it. I have driven manuals for most of my life for the same reasons. I just want to go high-tech this time and 'play' at being Schumi
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12-02-2007, 08:02 PM | #74 | |
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12-02-2007, 08:42 PM | #76 | |
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The bottom line is that to pick a manual is to artificially/intentionally create a challenge for yourself, since it is no longer a necessary challenge, simply to enable yourself to feel pride when accomplished. Once it becomes an intentional, self-induced obstacle, I think it loses its genuine ability to create feelings of accomplishment/pride. At this point it ceases to be 'fun.' There was nothing inherently 'fun' about rowing, it was the 'challenge' which made it fun, only now its is a fake challenge you forced upon yourself. If you still feel proud, you are just fooling yourself. My only point is that to be consistent, anyone who insists on challenging themselves with a manual, must therefore also insist on doing all sorts of other things the hard way. Whether it be hunting, making fire, doing math, etc. If you are so concerned about retaining your pride in shifting, why did you give up all the other little challenges of life which used to give you pride? Then I'm taking it a step further and saying there is no genuine reason to continue to be proud of manually shifting, because its no longer a genuine challenge. It is a self-imposed challenge. Once you realize this, it ceases to create pride and thus it ceases to be 'fun' because it is not inherently 'fun' in and of itself. It was only fun when it was a challenge, a real genuine challenge. |
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12-02-2007, 08:57 PM | #77 | |
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But for the record, I am definitely NOT defensive over DCT. How could I be defensive? I don't own DCT, I do not have an order placed, I'm undecided, and I own/love my manual. I just think it is fascinating the way die hard manual drivers are so stubbornly proud of themselves. And how they 'draw the line' at letting a machine shift for them, but they didn't 'draw the line' before they adopted any other of countless technologies which have replaced mans effort in all aspects of our lives. |
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12-02-2007, 09:26 PM | #78 | |
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It's not an easy decision. I just hope it comes out soon enough that I actually have a choice without delaying my purchase too long.
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12-03-2007, 12:46 AM | #79 | |
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12-03-2007, 01:12 AM | #80 | |
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What I can say about SMG II was that it takes some practice and some time with it to totally adapt to it and mesh with it. DCT should be less so, but either way if you try to make a decision based on a single short test, you would certainly be doing yourself a disservice. |
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12-03-2007, 03:00 AM | #81 |
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i feel like im the only person without a order number...perhaps its because i told my sales guy that i am waiting for DCT...I wish i could call him up right now and tell him to put my order in but ill holdout until official word of DCT.
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12-03-2007, 04:18 AM | #82 |
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LOL, can someone construct a decent argument for or against automated manuals? You all sound like 10 yearold school girls wondering what their first bra is going to be like! I could do it, but really I could give a toss what everyone else's gearbox of choice is. Even though half the people that are married to DCT have never driven a automated manual for any period of time, lol much?
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12-03-2007, 04:48 AM | #83 |
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Lil. Lucas - I fully agree with you I'ts a bit like arguing about what's the best M3 color - everyone has their own preferences and it's a free world - so live and let others live...
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12-03-2007, 08:58 AM | #84 |
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Exactly, I agree as well... Like I've been saying for a couple of posts now... Life is too short!
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12-03-2007, 10:25 AM | #85 | |
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12-03-2007, 12:20 PM | #86 | |
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What I find particularly entertaining about your post is your insistence that THE ONLY way to experience something or judge it is based on seat time. I wholeheartedly disagree. I personally have not driven a DSG (but have driven SMG). I have been down to a local VW dealer to play with the DSG in the GTI but kind of feel that I shouldn't/wouldn't be allowed to drive it really hard so I have not done that yet. Where do I get my inspiration from? Facts, science, physics, engineering, math and of course a good dose of analogies, educated guesses and ocassionally even some speculation. Many will immediately discredit such an approach but if you are not educated in these domains (math, engineering, physics) it is very easy to say "seat time is the only way to judge something or make any valid conclusions". If, however, you undestand the basics; calculus, shock and accleration, Newton's Laws, etc. using science you can really predict and understand in a very intricate, fundamental and deep fashion the "feel" and performance of a design without having driven it. Again it sounds strange but if "second time derivates" and "conservation of angular momentum" sound totally foreign than this concept will as well. Sure nothing can entirely replace seat time and of course all good engineers always want to get their hands on the "hardware" and actually test it and feel it. When you combine both - the experiential and the intimate knowledge you can have from the math/phyiscs side then you really will have the ulitmate knowledge and "intimacy" with a design. If you have only seat time and possess no understanding of the physics you are missing something big, important and insightful and you probably will never even know it. Neither method of gaining knowledge alone can provide full insight. |
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12-03-2007, 01:21 PM | #87 | |
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12-03-2007, 01:27 PM | #88 | |
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Sometime I might join the DCT III or IV club though... (in the hope of being accepted by mighty Sw, then ) Best regards, south |
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