Official HP/TQ Numbers out for CTS-V: 556 hp/551 tq

[GnokGnik]

How is Caddy's current reliability? I don't trust American cars. ...

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

How is Caddy's current reliability? I don't trust American cars. ...

http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/06/04...year-straight/

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/06/04...year-straight/

Not the same as reliability. They claim such surveys taken after 90 days of ownership correlate very well with long term reliability. Heck with Porsche at #1 I wouldn't doubt that there is a significant amount of "hey my car is so awesome - it gets perfect scores across the board" despite any problems that occured. That being said Caddy is quite a way ahead of BMW.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Not the same as reliability. They claim such surveys taken after 90 days of ownership correlate very well with long term reliability. Heck with Porsche at #1 I wouldn't doubt that there is a significant amount of "hey my car is so awesome - it gets perfect scores across the board" despite any problems that occured. That being said Caddy is quite a way ahead of BMW.

Here ya go then. Caddy third place.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ndablecar.aspx


2008 J.D. Power reliability survey

Lexus 120
Mercury 151
Cadillac 155
Toyota 159
Acura 160
Buick 163
BMW 164
Lincoln 165
Honda 177
Jaguar 178
Porsche 193
Mitsubishi 197
Hyundai 200
Ford 204
Infiniti 204
Industry average 206
Audi 207
Mercedes-Benz 215
Nissan 224
Pontiac 225
GMC 226
Mazda 228
Subaru 228
Chrysler 229
Dodge 230
Mini 233
Chevrolet 239
Hummer 241
Scion 243
Volvo 244
Saturn 250
Jeep 253
Volkswagen 253
Saab 254
Isuzu 274
Kia 278
Suzuki 302
Land Rover 344

Source: J.D. Power

[MrHarris]

the back on that caddy looks hideous

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Bruce,

I am commending Caddy's achievements. To break the 8 minute barrier regardless of who is driving is incredible, but until SportAuto do their test we can only assume that it will be quicker than an M5, M6 or M3.

Don't think it will crack 8 minutes with SportAuto. Their 7:58 time was done with the race car driver Heinracy.

In the up coming Road and Track test, Heinracy in the CTS-V will be pitted against Bill Auberlin in the M5.... This will be interesting.

[chicagobimmerboy]

With the American market the way it is, we'll see how long caddy is allowed to make cars of this calibur. I wouldnt buy one personally but man what a car!!!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

Here ya go then. Caddy third place.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ndablecar.aspx

Much better . Note the large differences between those results and the previous ones. Not all that correlated IMO... Thanks. Caddy is looking really strong here. The only other point might be long term reliability.

[Serious]

Finally the CTS-V drives as fast as it depreciates.

[footie]

I don't want to sound arrogant but Americans except a standard which we in Europe wouldn't, like the fit and finish of American cars, they are improved for the European market (i.e. built with better materials). Maybe those that do buy from else where expect higher standards from their European products and may be expecting too much, remember there is a huge price difference between buying US and buying European. Also you are a very patriotic bunch which may explain why they is so many US brands near the top.

Flame suit ON.

[ihyln]

I would give the interior a thumbs up but the center console air vents are terribly placed.

[GnokGnik]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

Here ya go then. Caddy third place.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ndablecar.aspx


2008 J.D. Power reliability survey

Lexus 120
Mercury 151
Cadillac 155
Toyota 159
Acura 160
Buick 163
BMW 164
Lincoln 165
Honda 177
Jaguar 178
Porsche 193
Mitsubishi 197
Hyundai 200
Ford 204
Infiniti 204
Industry average 206
Audi 207
Mercedes-Benz 215
Nissan 224
Pontiac 225
GMC 226
Mazda 228
Subaru 228
Chrysler 229
Dodge 230
Mini 233
Chevrolet 239
Hummer 241
Scion 243
Volvo 244
Saturn 250
Jeep 253
Volkswagen 253
Saab 254
Isuzu 274
Kia 278
Suzuki 302
Land Rover 344

Source: J.D. Power

thx for the info.

[Garissimo]

I'm not going to give any spoilers. Here's the link to the result of R&T's CTS-V vs. E60 M5 track showdown:

CTS-V vs. M5

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

I'm not going to give any spoilers. Here's the link to the result of R&T's CTS-V vs. E60 M5 track showdown:

CTS-V vs. M5

Ha....if GM calls that victory, they are shortsighted.

What happen to the HP advantage? What happened to sucking the doors off the M5??!!??


EDIT: Interesting comment that the track data appears to be identical between the cars, i.e. top speed.... considering they are so different by design.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Ha....if GM calls that victory, they are shortsighted.

What happen to the HP advantage? What happened to sucking the doors off the M5??!!??

G.M. basically took aim at a 3 year old target and equaled it, but did not surpass it. Road and Track's log showed virtually identical speeds at all places on the track, even the straightaways where I would have expected the CTS-V to pull away.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

G.M. basically took aim at a 3 year old target and equaled it, but did not surpass it. Road and Track's log showed virtually identical speeds at all places on the track, even the straightaways where I would have expected the CTS-V to pull away.

BTW, if my post doesn't show....I have tremendous respect for GM engineers who are working in a less than ideal environment at GM..... Even with this level of engineering and testing, BMW ///M must be commended by delivering this level of performance 4 years ago.

I just hope BMW doesn't screw up the M division with all the re-organization they are doing right now.....

[footie]

Not wanting to wave the Audi flag but on every comparison test involving the RS6 with the M5 the win has went to the big Audi on every track and the win has been more than this small half a second we see here.

Audi has surpassed BMW but Caddy have only equalled them.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Not wanting to wave the Audi flag but on every comparison test involving the RS6 with the M5 the win has went to the big Audi on every track and the win has been more than this small half a second we see here.

Audi has surpassed BMW but Caddy have only equalled them.

If you can show a similar test of your beloved RS6 vs. M5 (i.e. race drivers on the same day at the same track), you are wasting text trying to convince people, that the RS6 is superior.


EDIT: The problem with magazine racing is that it never takes into account driver and conditions. This is why this test is awesome. Also if you were to believe the 7:58 from Cadillac, a magazine racer would have believe the CTS-V blows away the M5, which it doesn't.

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

If you can show a similar test of your beloved RS6 vs. M5 (i.e. race drivers on the same day at the same track), you are wasting text trying to convince people, that the RS6 is superior.

Just motoring journalists driving the each car. A fairer comparison than having a professional accustomed to that motor, this way you see how someone's confidence grows with the limited time behind the wheel.

Google it TB, you info is there.

Autocar tested both and on their dry handling course the RS6 lapped in 1:14.7 against the M5's 1:17.1, that is a decent improvement in lap time by my reckoning.

P.S.
This comment of mine is purely based on ability and not entertainment, on that front the RS6 would be soundly beaten.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Just motoring journalists driving the each car. A fairer comparison than having a professional accustomed to that motor, this way you see how someone's confidence grows with the limited time behind the wheel.

Google it TB, you info is there.

P.S.
This comment of mine is purely based on ability and not entertainment, on that front the RS6 would be soundly beaten.

See my other post.... I love the R&T test because we know the paid Cadillac drivers and BMW drivers are going to leave everything on the track. Same conditions and competitive drivers. It doesn't get any better as a test.

I would love to see the RS6 vs. M5 in similar circumstances.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by footie

Audi has surpassed BMW but Caddy have only equalled them.

Honestly 5-10 years ago, if someone told me Caddy would make a car that slightly beat a BMW "M" car. I would have laughed in their face. Consider the price difference, I say the CTS-V is one hell of a value. I give them tremendous credit, well done GM.

On side note: Does anyone have the MPG comparison?

Originally Posted by footie

I don't want to sound arrogant but Americans except a standard which we in Europe wouldn't, like the fit and finish of American cars, they are improved for the European market (i.e. built with better materials). Maybe those that do buy from else where expect higher standards from their European products and may be expecting too much, remember there is a huge price difference between buying US and buying European. Also you are a very patriotic bunch which may explain why they is so many US brands near the top.

Flame suit ON.

Keep in mind, you are talking to Americans that are driving BMWs. We drive BMWs for many reasons, one of them being fit and finish. But I will admit GM is trying to address this problem. The new CTS is built to a highter standard, it still could use improvement. But from the pics I have seen of the CTS-V interior, it looks like it maybe the best GM interior to date.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by T Bone

BTW, if my post doesn't show....I have tremendous respect for GM engineers who are working in a less than ideal environment at GM..... Even with this level of engineering and testing, BMW ///M must be commended by delivering this level of performance 4 years ago.

Good point about the American engineers. Also, they are delivering M5 levels of performance at least a $30K discount; they should be commended for that. I'm looking forward to a comprehensive real world test of the CTS-V. Road and Track's test said next to nothing about the way the CTS-V drives other than the video segment where the driver complimented the magnetic suspension.

Originally Posted by T Bone

I just hope BMW doesn't screw up the M division with all the re-organization they are doing right now.....

Everything I've read about BMW's //M division says they operate more or less autonomously. I think BMW is smart enough not to fix that which is not broken.