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11-17-2010, 12:06 PM | #1 | |
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M157 based C63 AMG... scary! how would the current e9X do?
man, this thing seriously has me thinking!
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html Quote:
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11-17-2010, 12:11 PM | #2 |
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Ekranoplan ftw.
Wow, welcome to the future...I feel this is a good preview for the next gen M3 engine, but this article is confusing. They talk about the M157, but the review is of the last hurrah of the M156 C63 with the P31 AMG performance package... Last edited by mdosu; 11-17-2010 at 12:16 PM.. |
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11-17-2010, 02:32 PM | #3 |
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This C63 does not have the 5.5 TT V8. It's the 6.3(6.2) V8 with the performance package.
The writer said he drove the new CL63 with the new 5.5tt V8 that has 563 hp. He's comparing it to the 6.3 v8, and says its not the same. |
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11-17-2010, 02:34 PM | #4 |
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no, that was a typo (CL)... he drove a C63 with the new M157 engine, according to the article and the pictures. Autocar also had a first look last week with the same engine (without the power pack upgrade, so only 536hp).
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11-17-2010, 03:26 PM | #5 |
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I'm Seeing it as it is the CL he was referring to in the beginning and the review is based on the C63 with the new performance package. Read the article and look at the pictures. The car still retains the 6.3 on it's fenders and he goes on saying how hp is bumped up to 480 something, but torque is the same. Read people.
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11-18-2010, 08:11 AM | #7 | |
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and reading the merc forums, it's obvious that the C63 will have the m157 based engine available.
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11-18-2010, 12:18 PM | #11 |
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The last thing the C63 needed IMO was more power, aka the Perf Pack. So naturally, because at the ultimate level AMG doesn't *get* it, they went ahead and added *massively* more power with that twin turbo engine.
Faster than the outgoing car, but less entertaining. Great. Epic fail, AMG...
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11-19-2010, 06:19 AM | #12 | |
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English here for many is the second language |
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11-19-2010, 08:55 AM | #13 |
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11-19-2010, 01:04 PM | #16 |
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Not a chance.
Less power, less grip, a lot more weight, taller CG.
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11-19-2010, 02:21 PM | #18 | |
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How is this an "Epic Fail" ? We both know 99.9% of owners drive these cars on public roads. I can make a clear argument then a N54 car can be easily modified to shame a E9X M3 in these conditions for much less. It's very obvious, however most the E9X owners wont admit, that the weakness with your car is the motor. That is why you see many people paying BIG BUCKS for SC kits, because the simple bolt-on mods don't deliver the numbers a lot of realistic (non circuit track M3 owners) are looking to get. Again the reality is 99.9% of owners use these cars as daily drivers on public roads. Whether the car is a second or two faster on a road course or the "Ring" is meaningless to the main stream buyer. Come on do you think the Sale Associate at a BMW dealer is showing track times to perspective buyers of M3? Hey I don't recall my SA showing me anything like that when I bought my E46 M3. I know this means a lot to the hardcore enthusiast, but from a business perspective the mainstream buyer is the one BMW is looking to appease. It all about sales.
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11-19-2010, 02:43 PM | #19 | ||||
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Because nobody every complained about the lack of power in the C63. The latest batches of modifications by the AMG engineers don't address any of the areas of complaint or weaknesses.
So, a fail. Quote:
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The percentage of heavily modified cars is minuscule - less than 1% I'd be willing to bet. They just like to congregate on 1 or 2 forums, which is why you're aware of them. The vast array of modifications done (easily seen on this forum) is for the sake of coolness - looks & sound. Quote:
Engineering wise, usability wise, it just doesn't make any sense. Quote:
Edit: Listen, you need to understand something - you are on an M3 forum. Maybe you do like the character of the C63 AMG and enjoy it for what it is. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But if you spend your time on an M3 forum, you cannot fail to understand that perhaps the enthusiastic M3 owners are looking for something else in a car. I mean if they were looking for an AMG, they'd buy one right? So if we do love our M3's for what they are, why are you surprised about the lack of enthusiasm about another iteration of a car that we've skipped right past in the first place?
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11-19-2010, 04:48 PM | #20 | |
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I was a little confused as well by that article, but ultimately the test was of the C63 with the 6.2 liter normally aspirated V8 with the power bump. On that precise point, the only thing AMG did was to raise the power, and left the torque peak as is, which implies that the low-end torque curve is not affected. The implication is that the steroidal C63 is no more traction-limited than the standard model, although it clearly pulls harder up top. Car & Driver ran 12.3s at 117 mph on Continentals. 12.3s are pretty impressive, but that 117 mph trap speed is stupendous. The implication is that on something grippier than Contis it would be even a bit quicker. In regard to power, I fully agree with and have to quote David E. Davis (he of "Car & Driver" and "Automobile" magazine) when he wrote "Any car on the planet would be a better car if it just had 50 more horsepower". I inferred from your note that you think the C63 needs a number of other things addressed, but I respectfully disagree. I think that the car would clearly benefit from a set of adjustable shocks, but don't think the car needs anything else. It's an immensely entertaining ride as is, and IMO is generally a more entertaining and better ride than the M3 is while just driving around. I think the M3 only gets into its groove when you are pretty much flailing it. Of course, that's a really terrific groove. In regard to the AMG folks not getting it, I again respectfully disagree. They address their market in a Mercedes way - that's all. Including the automatic. At a guess, pairing those two cars up on one of those early-Sunday-morning back-road drives at seven to eight tenths, both drivers would have face-splitting grins when they stopped for breakfast. It's only when you start pushing the envelope in that venue to nine-tenths or better where the M3 starts to shine brighter in actual speed if not fun. Of course, IMO only nutballs do nine-tenths or better on the street. Bruce PS - Re the recent comparison in "Car" magazine, the M3 came out on top overall, but they also loved the C63 because of the fun factor, and apparently a couple of their editors preferred it for that very reason. I'm not putting down the M3, as both it and the C63 are just excellent, and manual shift aside (as a preference), they're pretty damned close to even based on my own experience. Different, but even. PPS - Don't have a clue as to when they may install that twin-turbo V8 in the C63, but I think they'll simply have to go to AWD. |
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11-19-2010, 05:08 PM | #22 | ||
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It would steal quite a number of M3 sales that way. There is absolutely zero rationale for Mercedes not providing these, other than being smugly pig-headed and conservative about certain things.
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