More rod bearings

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Duk996

It sounds reasonable until you're in my shoes dealing with the possibility of needing a new engine. If BMW told me to replace the bearings periodically I would have been ok with it. I was completely broadsided. Was I supposed to just tear the bottom end apart on a whim? Or because I read it on the forums? Who periodically replaces rod bearings? The whole thing is ridiculous.

I have two M3's with around 160k between them. For me I KNOW I will never have a bearing issue. Of course unless/until it happens and I'm in your shoes. For now I don't think about it. Should I be preemptive and get them done? Possibly, but for now I just believe that the amount of vehicles affected is so small that I can't see myself spending $4,000 to do it. Now I wouldn't mind making the trip up to SYT_Shadow and have him do both of my cars with my assistance of course and bang them both out on a weekend. That would be an awesome trip and meeting Danny would be a highlight of my M3 ownership. It is concerning however when I read a thread like yours and the thought of your frustration when all you did was drive the car normally and then this happens. Don't give up, hopefully BMW will work with you.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Duk996

It sounds reasonable until you're in my shoes dealing with the possibility of needing a new engine. If BMW told me to replace the bearings periodically I would have been ok with it. I was completely broadsided. Was I supposed to just tear the bottom end apart on a whim? Or because I read it on the forums? Who periodically replaces rod bearings? The whole thing is ridiculous.

I get where you're coming from, but Mercedes does not warn you that the C63 engine drops valves, nor does Corvette make that announcement. Known issues on those cars without permanent fixes which blow your engine.

Porsche certainly doesn't warn you about their 996/997 engines blowing up due to the IMS... we could talk about this stuff all day.

This is why many people do not own performance vehicles out of warranty. If you do it's best to do some serious research.

I'm sorry this is happening to you OP, this really sucks

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Duk996

I suppose, I like my hypothesis that on start up the bearing is worn and knocks until the oil pressure arrives to cushion it all. That would be consistent with the garage queen theory in that the oil between the journal and the bearing would "leak" out when left for a period time setting up to audibly knock again on next start up.

I can't explain how people would have that knock/rattle on startup and NOT have it escalate into a full blown constant knock while running though.

I'm open to whatever. At this point I just hope the journals are not damaged.

I'm quite familiar with the cold start rattle. My first engine did it the entire time I had it, suffered vanos failure, was replaced by a newer engine that also has it. Bearings came out of the first engine (aftermarket) completely spotless. The rattle is not bearing related. While your hypothesis sounds good on paper, it doesn't work like that and if a bearing was ever loose enough to cause that kind of noise it'd fail immediately.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

I hear a rattle once in awhile immediately upon startup, I always thought it was the timing chain tensioners, but that is from my past experience with every BMW that used a hydraulic timing chain tensioner. I purchased a pair of tensioners, but haven't installed them.

Also I had my rod bearings done recently, and the cold start rattle is exactly the same now as before I changed the RB.

I thought the same and changed the tensioners on my old engine. When you start it the first time after replacement, the tensioners won't have any oil pressure for a second and you'll hear what the actual tensioner noise sounds like and find that it's slightly different. More high pitched and hollow sounding. Hard to explain. Maybe in your case it actually is tensioners, but I doubt it.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

If anyone is interested, I only drove the car once or twice a month, and I?ve found that if I turn the car ON, give the fuel pump a chance to prime, the start the car, that clunk is not anywhere near as bad.

Hey Phillipe, you see this? Think this is why your brake trick works? Is it really just buying time for the fuel pump to prime?

[Munichm3]

If your bearings were going out, it wouldn’t make a noise just on start up. Duke, you’re blowing this out of proportion, if you’ve had the car since you’ve said since 34K Miles, you’d know these engines make all kinds of noises. I’m convinced it’s not your bearings, and NO bmw will not give you a new engine because you have a hysteria over your rod bearings.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

If your bearings were going out, it wouldn’t make a noise just on start up. Duke, you’re blowing this out of proportion, if you’ve had the car since you’ve said since 34K Miles, you’d know these engines make all kinds of noises. I’m convinced it’s not your bearings, and NO bmw will not give you a new engine because you have a hysteria over your rod bearings.

It knocks faintly between 1000 and 2500 rpm (something like that). There are metal shavings in the oil filter (bmw told me that, not my own observation). No hysteria here.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Hey Phillipe, you see this? Think this is why your brake trick works? Is it really just buying time for the fuel pump to prime?

Yeah I know , I saw his post yesterday . And I thought about the brake pedal procedure.
Check my post from 2014 => # 4 on this page http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...3#post16319163
Note : It works only for DCT's .

Sometimes after the brake procedure , the noise is completely gone , sometimes it's quieter ;
Don't ask me why it works , because I have no idea

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

If your bearings were going out, it wouldn’t make a noise just on start up. Duke, you’re blowing this out of proportion, if you’ve had the car since you’ve said since 34K Miles, you’d know these engines make all kinds of noises. I’m convinced it’s not your bearings, and NO bmw will not give you a new engine because you have a hysteria over your rod bearings.

He said he has metal shavings in his oil filter . This is/was confirmed by BMW.
Honestly , this sounds pretty bad to me..

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

He said he has metal shavings in his oil filter . This is/was confirmed by BMW.
Honestly , this sounds pretty bad to me..

My shop found metal shavings In my oil filter and coming out of the oil cooler from my accident. But the report came in and none of it was copper(2008).

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

My shop found metal shavings In my oil filter and coming out of the oil cooler from my accident. But the report came in and none of it was copper(2008).

Any idea what the shavings are from? Blackstone oil analyses look for microscopic trace amounts of materials. Finding shavings is a big deal, something is shredding itself. What kind of accident?

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Any idea what the shavings are from? Blackstone oil analyses look for microscopic trace amounts of materials. Finding shavings is a big deal, something is shredding itself. What kind of accident?

I had my oil cooler get smashed by a tire from a semi truck. It drained my oil but I pulled over immediately and was able to save th car. However they found shavings in the filter and oil. When we got the report back, lead was not found. However metals like molybdenum, titanium, and calcium were a little high. Which shows me most likely piston and block wear which isn’t a huge deal. My guess is as the oil drained the bottom end was getting all the oil on the way down and the top end was running thinner.

[Munichm3]

Below is the art arched report

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

I had my oil cooler get smashed by a tire from a semi truck. It drained my oil but I pulled over immediately and was able to save th car. However they found shavings in the filter and oil. When we got the report back, lead was not found. However metals like molybdenum, titanium, and calcium were a little high. Which shows me most likely piston and block wear which isn’t a huge deal. My guess is as the oil drained the bottom end was getting all the oil on the way down and the top end was running thinner.

Yes , I remember your picture from the accident .
On the other hand ...Duk996 had no accident , his situation is completely different.

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yes , I remember your picture from the accident .
On the other hand ...Duk996 had no accident , his situation is completely different.

In that case, I would just do the rod bearings and never worry about it again for a while. It would be very useful to know what metals it was.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

In that case, I would just do the rod bearings and never worry about it again for a while. It would be very useful to know what metals it was.

Read his post from #51 above . He said it knocks between 1000 and 2500 rpm's.
And he has metal shavings in his oil filter . That's why I think his situation goes further than only a bearing replacement .
That's why his car is still at BMW , and with a good reason for further mechanical investigation + to read the history of the DME.
Of course the whole situation is not cheap , knowing he's out of warranty but he is hoping for BMW's goodwill..

If this was my car I wouldn't start it again , to avoid damage of the crank ect..

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Duk996

It sounds reasonable until you're in my shoes dealing with the possibility of needing a new engine. If BMW told me to replace the bearings periodically I would have been ok with it. I was completely broadsided. Was I supposed to just tear the bottom end apart on a whim? Or because I read it on the forums? Who periodically replaces rod bearings? The whole thing is ridiculous.

Part of the research when buying a used car...

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

I had my oil cooler get smashed by a tire from a semi truck. It drained my oil but I pulled over immediately and was able to save th car. However they found shavings in the filter and oil. When we got the report back, lead was not found. However metals like molybdenum, titanium, and calcium were a little high. Which shows me most likely piston and block wear which isn’t a huge deal. My guess is as the oil drained the bottom end was getting all the oil on the way down and the top end was running thinner.

Moly, titanium and calcium are oil additives fyi....none of them are wear metals. Blackstone only looks for microscopic particles, they won't catch shavings unless someone sees them. And those are what score cranks, bearings and cylinders. Keep a close eye on it.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Any idea what the shavings are from? Blackstone oil analyses look for microscopic trace amounts of materials. Finding shavings is a big deal, something is shredding itself. What kind of accident?

Any updates about your car at BMW ?

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Any updates about your car at BMW

Not really, it is still not apart and hasnt been started since. BMW made an offer for some repairs but it was a pittance and contingent on certain findings with no guarantees.

BMW really screwed the pooch here and they should be ashamed for how they are handling it. I understand its an expensive mistake to fess up to but leaving us all holding the bag is unacceptable.

How in the world is designing an engine that wears its bearing out a thing? Its 2017, over 100 years of humanity building cars and of all things the bearings? Shame on BMW for the mistake and their response!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Not really, it is still not apart and hasnt been started since. BMW made an offer for some repairs but it was a pittance and contingent on certain findings with no guarantees.

BMW really screwed the pooch here and they should be ashamed for how they are handling it. I understand its an expensive mistake to fess up to but leaving us all holding the bag is unacceptable.

How in the world is designing an engine that wears its bearing out a thing? Its 2017, over 100 years of humanity building cars and of all things the bearings? Shame on BMW for the mistake and their response!

I agree in your situation and feel your pain ,actually it really s@cks !
If you have further updates , please let us know ..

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Not really, it is still not apart and hasnt been started since. BMW made an offer for some repairs but it was a pittance and contingent on certain findings with no guarantees.

BMW really screwed the pooch here and they should be ashamed for how they are handling it. I understand its an expensive mistake to fess up to but leaving us all holding the bag is unacceptable.

How in the world is designing an engine that wears its bearing out a thing? Its 2017, over 100 years of humanity building cars and of all things the bearings? Shame on BMW for the mistake and their response!

You and hundreds of other S65 owners who feel the same way. You feel that bmw is responsible and should replace our engines free of charge... news flash.... it isn't going to happen.

They've had rod bearing issues since the early S54's and they didn't do anything then. Then the s85, same story. Now the S65. They won't do anything, and complaining on a forum isn't going to magically sway their position either.

To them, they don't see an issue.

Just pay up the money like the rest of us or get rid of the car.

I did an oil change today on a local used car dealers latest purchase for resale. A ESS 550 equiped e92. Upon pulling the filter it was full of copper colored shavings, oil had suspended copper shavings as well. Guess what.... it's going back to auction lol.