BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-13-2012, 09:48 PM   #45
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Dyno correction of 27% is not valid. Anything above/below 7% is invalid according to SAE J1349 horsepower correction specifications.

The weather station on the dyno is broken. You area reading ambient pressure of 24.14 inHg (817.14 mBar). That measurement is not possible on earth. Lowest pressure ever recorded on earth was 25.69 inHg (870 mBar). "Normal" pressure on earth is 29.92 inHg (1013 mBar). So you can see 24.14 inHg isn't possible and the weather station on the dyno needs to be fixed/replaced.

That explains the corrected results but not the uncorrected results. Frankly I wouldn't trust this dyno and would go somewhere else.

Ignore the suggestion to dyno in 5th gear even though it's 1:1. The suggestion is rooted in the myth that 5th gear has less drive train loss. In this transmission, it's actually the second least efficient gear. So if you dyno in 5th, you will probably see even lower results. Search the forums as this has been discussed a few times.

Here's a link to the dyno database where you can see about 500 dyno results for the m3. There's a quick link to show you all "stock" cars so you can see how yours compares.
http://www.rcollins.org/bimmertech/DynoDB.php

Good luck.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2012, 10:12 PM   #46
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Many thanks img. The same dyno has gotten "normal" results for the other cars, though I see the point about the weather station (also 5% humidity isn't possible even here.) I'll talk to them tomorrow and see if they know what is going on. We don't have tons of dyno options out here...
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2012, 10:15 PM   #47
Dave07997S
Brigadier General
704
Rep
3,936
Posts

Drives: 2020 Ford Mustang GT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: El Segundo, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Dyno correction of 27% is not valid. Anything above/below 7% is invalid according to SAE J1349 horsepower correction specifications.

The weather station on the dyno is broken. You area reading ambient pressure of 24.14 inHg (817.14 mBar). That measurement is not possible on earth. Lowest pressure ever recorded on earth was 25.69 inHg (870 mBar). "Normal" pressure on earth is 29.92 inHg (1013 mBar). So you can see 24.14 inHg isn't possible and the weather station on the dyno needs to be fixed/replaced.

That explains the corrected results but not the uncorrected results. Frankly I wouldn't trust this dyno and would go somewhere else.

Ignore the suggestion to dyno in 5th gear even though it's 1:1. The suggestion is rooted in the myth that 5th gear has less drive train loss. In this transmission, it's actually the second least efficient gear. So if you dyno in 5th, you will probably see even lower results. Search the forums as this has been discussed a few times.

Here's a link to the dyno database where you can see about 500 dyno results for the m3. There's a quick link to show you all "stock" cars so you can see how yours compares.
http://www.rcollins.org/bimmertech/DynoDB.php

Good luck.
This makes me feel good as my dyno was in 5th and it hit 346hp and 260ft/lbs of tq.

Dave
__________________
2020 Ford Mustang GT 6MT PP1 444rwhp
(Sold)2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2012, 10:35 PM   #48
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

OP, I just got back from EAS. My car put down a disappointing 349 WHP with filter, pulley, HFC, x-pipe, and rear section. My car had the oldest software version. Tom flashed it to the newest file and it put down 372 WHP.

While doing the flash, Tom showed me the plots for an '08 with 48k miles, original plugs, and old software. The owner brought it in because it failed smog. It put down 308 WHP and the plot was rough like yours because it was misfiring (no codes though). With new plugs and software, it made 345 WHP.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2012, 10:48 PM   #49
Rekrul
Captain
Rekrul's Avatar
63
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 19 M5 Comp, 16 GT3RS
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Purgatory

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
OP, I just got back from EAS. My car put down a disappointing 349 WHP with filter, pulley, HFC, x-pipe, and rear section. My car had the oldest software version. Tom flashed it to the newest file and it put down 372 WHP.

While doing the flash, Tom showed me the plots for an '08 with 48k miles, original plugs, and old software. The owner brought it in because it failed smog. It put down 308 WHP and the plot was rough like yours because it was misfiring (no codes though). With new plugs and software, it made 345 WHP.
How would one know how old their software was? Would an aftermarket tune totally override this?
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #50
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
OP, I just got back from EAS. My car put down a disappointing 349 WHP with filter, pulley, HFC, x-pipe, and rear section. My car had the oldest software version. Tom flashed it to the newest file and it put down 372 WHP.

While doing the flash, Tom showed me the plots for an '08 with 48k miles, original plugs, and old software. The owner brought it in because it failed smog. It put down 308 WHP and the plot was rough like yours because it was misfiring (no codes though). With new plugs and software, it made 345 WHP.
That gives me some hope (!) - your car is an 08, right? To be clear do you have a tune or just OEM software?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
How would one know how old their software was? Would an aftermarket tune totally override this?
They can find out what version of OEM software is running and that tells how old it is. From what I gather most tuners have most versions of "stock" OEM software that they can program onto the car, which sounds like what was done here.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2012, 01:05 AM   #51
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
How would one know how old their software was? Would an aftermarket tune totally override this?
We (EAS and I) were only able to tell by looking at my service history. You can't easily tell what version you have. Tom can only override what is on there with the newest version. The tuner (Sal for example) can tell once it has been read and sent to him. The aftermarket tune is a modified version of the stock software so starting with the best/newest software as a foundation for the tune will yield the best results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
That gives me some hope (!) - your car is an 08, right? To be clear do you have a tune or just OEM software?

They can find out what version of OEM software is running and that tells how old it is. From what I gather most tuners have most versions of "stock" OEM software that they can program onto the car, which sounds like what was done here.
Yeah, mine is an 08. I went to get a tune. My tune was based off of the oldest software version. Essentially, tuning the old version yielded the same gains as updating to the new, completely stock software. So my tune is being redone using the new software as the basis. It made 349 with my mods and stock old software; not good. It made 368 with the Evolve tuned version of my old software so I saw good gains with the Evolve tune. When we flashed it to the newest stock software, it made 372. I'm hoping for 390 with the tuned version of the new software.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R

Last edited by M3PO; 04-14-2012 at 02:02 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 02:35 AM   #52
MDCTFTW
Lieutenant Colonel
121
Rep
1,973
Posts

Drives: E92 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (0)

Do any of you guys knows what SW versions there are? I have an 08 also and the last time I went in to the dealer they did the following reprogramming:

B28-01-20
PROGRAM CONTROL UNITS PER BMW NA
AS PER SIB 28 01 10
PERFORMED PROGRAMMING/ENCODING OF COMPLETE VEH

I have a DCT and the car had to stay overnight for this service.
__________________


MDCT ... so you can drive and eat a hamburger at the same time.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 02:42 AM   #53
MDCTFTW
Lieutenant Colonel
121
Rep
1,973
Posts

Drives: E92 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (0)

Hmmm nevermind, I think mine was a DCT sw update
__________________


MDCT ... so you can drive and eat a hamburger at the same time.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 02:44 AM   #54
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCTFTW View Post
Hmmm nevermind, I think mine was a DCT sw update
I'm not so sure, it does say "COMPLETE VEH" which would lead me to believe they did the DME also.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 02:59 AM   #55
MDCTFTW
Lieutenant Colonel
121
Rep
1,973
Posts

Drives: E92 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I'm not so sure, it does say "COMPLETE VEH" which would lead me to believe they did the DME also.
Actually I think you're right. After some searching I found the attached which instructs BMW to use the latest ISTA/P. I got this service in November 2011 so hopefully I have updated sw.

Or maybe I should just get on a dyno one of these days.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf SI B 28 01 10 - DCT Freeze Frame Data Log Issue.pdf (93.5 KB, 135 views)
__________________


MDCT ... so you can drive and eat a hamburger at the same time.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 10:44 AM   #56
M3Denver
Lieutenant
M3Denver's Avatar
21
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Denver CO

iTrader: (0)

Op So have you gotten your software changed to latest oem and re dynoed yet?
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2012, 02:30 PM   #57
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Not yet, won't be able to do it until later this week.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2012, 11:55 AM   #58
M3Denver
Lieutenant
M3Denver's Avatar
21
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Denver CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes
Not yet, won't be able to do it until later this week.
Good luck this week!!
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #59
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCTFTW View Post
Actually I think you're right. After some searching I found the attached which instructs BMW to use the latest ISTA/P. I got this service in November 2011 so hopefully I have updated sw.

Or maybe I should just get on a dyno one of these days.
I believe that it's BMW's policy to upgrade ALL software when one module needs upgrading. If your DCT software was upgraded, I'm pretty sure that your DME was also.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2012, 04:02 PM   #60
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
7988
Rep
18,766
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I believe that it's BMW's policy to upgrade ALL software when one module needs upgrading. If your DCT software was upgraded, I'm pretty sure that your DME was also.
BMW does not have the ability to upgrade individual modules, only what specific modules the latest ISTA release targets.

Autologic can update individual modules, which is preferred in some cases (for instance the seatbelt requirement to prevent the transmission shifting into neutral in 2.45 on DCT). Some cases require an entire module family to be updated as sometimes modules depend on others.

Each issue is a case by case basis. The person performing the coding should have a complete understanding before attempting to work on your vehicle.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2012, 11:05 PM   #61
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
7988
Rep
18,766
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
OP, I just got back from EAS. My car put down a disappointing 349 WHP with filter, pulley, HFC, x-pipe, and rear section. My car had the oldest software version. Tom flashed it to the newest file and it put down 372 WHP.

While doing the flash, Tom showed me the plots for an '08 with 48k miles, original plugs, and old software. The owner brought it in because it failed smog. It put down 308 WHP and the plot was rough like yours because it was misfiring (no codes though). With new plugs and software, it made 345 WHP.
I just received an update on this particular M3 this afternoon, it passed emissions with flying colors.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2012, 07:26 AM   #62
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
Singletrack's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
3,850
Posts

Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 19 FG M5C
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
I just received an update on this particular M3 this afternoon, it passed emissions with flying colors.
That's great. Really sucks that the dealership didn't replace the plugs on time. The owner should complain to BMW USA.
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2012, 11:11 AM   #63
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
7988
Rep
18,766
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
That's great. Really sucks that the dealership didn't replace the plugs on time. The owner should complain to BMW USA.
Unfortunately, the car is already out of the warranty period.

It all comes down to proper maintenance, as well as troubleshooting.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #64
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

I went to the dealer to check the software version, only had time for them to scan the key not hook the car up to the diagnostic. My print out says "Integration Level Dealer: E89X-11-03-502". Can anybody decode what this relates to (231E, etc.)? Thanks.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2012, 11:44 AM   #65
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
7988
Rep
18,766
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
I went to the dealer to check the software version, only had time for them to scan the key not hook the car up to the diagnostic. My print out says "Integration Level Dealer: E89X-11-03-502". Can anybody decode what this relates to (231E, etc.)? Thanks.
You are on 2.41.x.

Unfortunately, without plugging into your DME I cannot tell what version you are for certain. For those that are local, we can quickly plug in and see what version you are on the spot:



This example shows version 231E.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2012, 11:57 AM   #66
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Tom.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST