E9x M3 LAP TIMES (Road Course)

[Casey@RWE]

Originally Posted by Straight flexin

Second time to road atl yesterday. Ran a 1:31.74. Have a total of 30 laps there now.To all my west coast friends.. You're missing out.

Same setup- dif tire. Wonder if td will be faster. Looking forward to a 1:29.
Hoosier r6 275/35/18
Kw clubsport
Apr gtc-250
Splitter
Brembo gt bbk
Ess-600

Ata Boy!

[TheKosherStogie]

^ Crushing it everywhere he goes!

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by VictorH

You forgot to mention you did it with your cords showing on the right rear!

Oh yeah, forgot to add that little tidbit, it was really trashed by the end of the day!

It was good to see you out there Victor, a gorgeous weekend.

[dogbone]

Had a fun day out at Speed District. Thanks Josh!!

E90 M3
Track/course: Willow Springs Big Willow
Best Lap Time: 1:30.832 (transponder)
Brakes: AP Racing - Cobalt Friction XR2 front/XR3 rear
Tires: Hankook TD - 295/30/18 square on Apex Arc-8 10.5"
Suspension: JRZ RS Pro
Other mods: VF620, Akrapovic X-Pipe with stock exhaust, (no aero parts)

Anyway, I was working harder on the second half of the course, and it paid off. Took some nice time off my previous best (1:32.4).

Here's the vid: (Harry's Lap Timer called it a 1:30.88)

[Groundpilot]

dogbone, how do you like vf-620 on the track? Is it handful to drive with that much power? Driving with MDM on or off? I am thinking to get some kind of S/C for my M3, but not sure about it.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

dogbone, how do you like vf-620 on the track? Is it handful to drive with that much power? Driving with MDM on or off? I am thinking to get some kind of S/C for my M3, but not sure about it.

Everyone who knows me at the track knows me as the Euro-MDM guy. I've been doing some DSC-off driving lately, but when I'm "going for it", I still leave MDM on. I've learned how to work around it so that it doesn't interfere much. I would say the biggest intrusion from MDM is that I have to wait a moment to get on the gas at the apex. People who watch my videos say that I need to get on the gas earlier after corners. I agree with their assessment, but MDM won't let me. In driving with it off, it is quite obvious how I am able to get on the gas earlier.

The supercharger is quite fun on the track. Even with a supercharger, the car does not have undue amounts of torque. It's not an untamable beast. But you do have to modulate the throttle quite a bit more than an NA M3. People are always saying with NA M3's that they are "flat out" all over the place……not me. I need to modulate a lot more. But it's not hard to learn. I've had people drive my car and immediately break their personal best in my car on their first hot lap. To me that means the car is easy to drive and predictable.

My advice about MDM is to just go at your own pace. Don't let anyone peer pressure you or shame you into DSC-off. I get tons of peer pressure. And that's ok. I have practiced on a skid pad a fair amount, so I'm actually ok with the car going sideways. I would suggest auto-crossing and hitting the skid pad to get those dynamics going at lower speeds.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Finally... FINALLY, broke sub-1:40 at RA!

And did it without aero, coilovers, or any big horsepower mods.

Track/Course: Road Atlanta
Best Lap Time: 1:39.80
Brake Pads: StopTech ST60/40, Pagid RS29
Tires (Size & Model): BFG R1S, 265/35/18 square; Apex Arc 8s.
Suspension: Stock springs & struts, GC camber plates -2.6.
Other Mods: Stock exhaust.

Video is processing.

Brilliant! I remember you from last year (was in the Silverstone 4 door). That's 2 seconds off from last year no? What did you do differently this time around? That's a stellar time! I too am running -2.6 camber up front with stock everything (including brakes) but now you're half second faster than I am from last year Look forward to the video.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Brilliant! I remember you from last year (was in the Silverstone 4 door). That's 2 seconds off from last year no? What did you do differently this time around? That's a stellar time! I too am running -2.6 camber up front with stock everything (including brakes) but now you're half second faster than I am from last year Look forward to the video.

Cheers,

Lutfy

Thanks for the kind words. I think the BFG R1s are a a tad stickier than the NT-01s. Also I had been leaving a lot of speed on the table in turn 1, so mainly I've been more aggressive in 10A, 10B thru 12 and turn 1. Feels good now. Not sure how much more time i can squeeze out of ol' Betsy without getting some coilovers though.

I did get red-misted at the end of the last session on the last day chasing my buddy in his red GT3 and spun in turn 5 going up the hill--kept it between the ditches (walls) as they say, did a 360 and ended up pointing down track, just drove off (into the pits ), weekend over!

Hope to see you out there again.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Car: 997.2 GT3 RS
Track: Chuckwalla CW
Best lap: 1:57.3
Brakes: Stock, Endless MA45Bs and fluid
Suspension: Stock, monoball suspension pieces
Tires: Hoosier R6s - 245/40/18 & 335/30/18

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Thanks for the kind words. I think the BFG R1s are a a tad stickier than the NT-01s. Also I had been leaving a lot of speed on the table in turn 1, so mainly I've been more aggressive in 10A, 10B thru 12 and turn 1. Feels good now. Not sure how much more time i can squeeze out of ol' Betsy without getting some coilovers though.

I did get red-misted at the end of the last session on the last day chasing my buddy in his red GT3 and spun in turn 5 going up the hill--kept it between the ditches (walls) as they say, did a 360 and ended up pointing down track, just drove off (into the pits ), weekend over!

Hope to see you out there again.

Thanks! I will be running those tires this year RA and Barber times are very close so that too will drop significantly now.

Straight Flexin that's off the shelf KW Clubsport? Any other suspension mod? Stock interior? 1:31 is cup car territory!! MENTAL!

Lutfy

[SpiralOut]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Everyone who knows me at the track knows me as the Euro-MDM guy. I've been doing some DSC-off driving lately, but when I'm "going for it", I still leave MDM on. I've learned how to work around it so that it doesn't interfere much. I would say the biggest intrusion from MDM is that I have to wait a moment to get on the gas at the apex. People who watch my videos say that I need to get on the gas earlier after corners. I agree with their assessment, but MDM won't let me. In driving with it off, it is quite obvious how I am able to get on the gas earlier.

The supercharger is quite fun on the track. Even with a supercharger, the car does not have undue amounts of torque. It's not an untamable beast. But you do have to modulate the throttle quite a bit more than an NA M3. People are always saying with NA M3's that they are "flat out" all over the place……not me. I need to modulate a lot more. But it's not hard to learn. I've had people drive my car and immediately break their personal best in my car on their first hot lap. To me that means the car is easy to drive and predictable.

My advice about MDM is to just go at your own pace. Don't let anyone peer pressure you or shame you into DSC-off. I get tons of peer pressure. And that's ok. I have practiced on a skid pad a fair amount, so I'm actually ok with the car going sideways. I would suggest auto-crossing and hitting the skid pad to get those dynamics going at lower speeds.

Hey dogbone, any heat or other issues with your supercharger on track? I may consider a SC if I end up keeping the car, but seems like most trackers recommend the smaller kit like the 585ish size.

[SpiralOut]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Finally... FINALLY, broke sub-1:40 at RA!

And did it without aero, coilovers, or any big horsepower mods.

Track/Course: Road Atlanta
Best Lap Time: 1:39.80
Brake Pads: StopTech ST60/40, Pagid RS29
Tires (Size & Model): BFG R1S, 265/35/18 square; Apex Arc 8s.
Suspension: Stock springs & struts, GC camber plates -2.6.
Other Mods: Stock exhaust.

Video is processing.

Nice job Bill! My VIR event last Friday got cancelled, but I'll be up there tomorrow to see how fast the new surface is.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by SpiralOut

Hey dogbone, any heat or other issues with your supercharger on track? I may consider a SC if I end up keeping the car, but seems like most trackers recommend the smaller kit like the 585ish size.

The problem with intercooled kits is, their bigger intercoolers block oem radiator and oil cooler, because of the way they are mounted, which restricts air flow. Since bigger kits run much higher boost, they generate more heat, thus negating the benefit of the bigger intercooler. Heat soak may be a real issue.
I am thinking about ESS 550 kit with bigger oil cooler. I think that is the way to go if you want to track this car in a hot ambient tempr.
Someone with S/C experience, please correct me if i am wrong.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SpiralOut

Hey dogbone, any heat or other issues with your supercharger on track? I may consider a SC if I end up keeping the car, but seems like most trackers recommend the smaller kit like the 585ish size.

Normally, yes heat buildup/heat soak is a problem for supercharged M3's. Heck, even NA M3's suffer from quick overheating when pushed hard. I know a lot of guys who push their NA M3's hard, and they all overheat quickly like me.

HOWEVER-----EAS has come up with a solution that has worked for me. I used to be known as the guy who did a warm up lap, two hot laps, and then got off the track, because the car would overheat. Now, I can run full 30 minute sessions and run the car at max the whole time and still retain good performance throughout. The Hankook TD tires need a break before the engine does now.

What is this miracle solution? It's actually quite simple. It's a misting system. It sprays a fine mist of water via 5 nozzles-----two on the supercharger intercooler, two on the main radiator, and one on the DCT cooler. It diverts the windshield washer reservoir and windshield washer pump and uses them as the backbone of the misting system, and it's triggered via supercharger boost. So we set a switch to activate at a certain psi boost and it turns the system on. When the boost drops below that point, the system turns off. I go through about a gallon of water per 20-25 minute session.

Since this system has been on my car, and had water in the reservoir, the car has NEVER given me an engine-overheating warning. This includes running at Chuckwalla at 92 degrees, Buttonwillow at 92 degrees, Auto Club Speedway at 93 degrees.

I consider it to be a passive system, meaning the car doesn't require any new programming, and if the water runs out, the car won't blow up----it will just overheat like normal.

Anyway, it does require me adding a gallon of water to the windshield washer reservoir before each session. So, you have to bring a bunch of water to the track. But so what? Now I can run full sessions if I want and not worry about overheating. As I said before, it's actually the tires now that need a break.

Want more proof? The 1:30.8 at Willow Springs a couple days ago was the 8th hot lap of my session. In that session, prior to that lap, I ran three laps in the 1:31.x range, including a 1:31.02, so I wasn't exactly wandering around the track prior to that lap. I did have a couple slower laps in between these hot laps, but mainly to rest the tires, not the engine. I've been told that TD's like to get a rest lap between hot laps. I find that to be true as well. Another example is that I was at Big Willow in January. Late in the day, Speed District decided to make it open track since many people had left. I ran around 20 hot laps in a row---no problems.

Anyway, I've never posted about this on the forum yet because I was kinda testing it out for EAS and wanted to see how effective it was. But it's been over 6 months now and at least 15 track days, and it's performed very very well for me, so I'm happy to recommend it. (I also had them add a hard on/off switch so that the system would not activate while driving in the city.)

Honestly, if you have a supercharged M3, this misting system is a no-brainer. It's not that expensive, and you can get a lot more from your track days.

AND for all you NA guys----they just installed a misting system into an NA M3 that should hit the track in a couple weeks. They're trying a different triggering method since with NA, boost isn't an option. We're all very curious to hear how it performs. (This car has been overheating on the track, so it will be interesting to see the results.)

People ask me, "what temp does the car get to with the misting system?" Here's a pic of what it looks look like at it's hottest. Basically, the needle gets to this point and then never goes beyond it----as long as there's water in the system. It doesn't seem to matter how hot the ambient temp is, or how hard you drive. The needle goes there and stays. And it recovers fairly quickly when you back off.

If you guys have any other questions about this system, I suggest asking EAS. They know all the particulars.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Normally, yes heat buildup/heat soak is a problem for supercharged M3's. Heck, even NA M3's suffer from quick overheating when pushed hard. I know a lot of guys who push their NA M3's hard, and they all overheat quickly like me.

HOWEVER-----EAS has come up with a solution that has worked for me. I used to be known as the guy who did a warm up lap, two hot laps, and then got off the track, because the car would overheat. Now, I can run full 30 minute sessions and run the car at max the whole time and still retain good performance throughout. The Hankook TD tires need a break before the engine does now.

What is this miracle solution? It's actually quite simple. It's a misting system. It sprays a fine mist of water via 5 nozzles-----two on the supercharger intercooler, two on the main radiator, and one on the DCT cooler. It diverts the windshield washer reservoir and windshield washer pump and uses them as the backbone of the misting system, and it's triggered via supercharger boost. So we set a switch to activate at a certain psi boost and it turns the system on. When the boost drops below that point, the system turns off. I go through about a gallon of water per 20-25 minute session.

Since this system has been on my car, and had water in the reservoir, the car has NEVER given me an engine-overheating warning. This includes running at Chuckwalla at 92 degrees, Buttonwillow at 92 degrees, Auto Club Speedway at 93 degrees.

I consider it to be a passive system, meaning the car doesn't require any new programming, and if the water runs out, the car won't blow up----it will just overheat like normal.

Anyway, it does require me adding a gallon of water to the windshield washer reservoir before each session. So, you have to bring a bunch of water to the track. But so what? Now I can run full sessions if I want and not worry about overheating. As I said before, it's actually the tires now that need a break.

Want more proof? The 1:30.8 at Willow Springs a couple days ago was the 8th hot lap of my session. In that session, prior to that lap, I ran three laps in the 1:31.x range, including a 1:31.02, so I wasn't exactly wandering around the track prior to that lap. I did have a couple slower laps in between these hot laps, but mainly to rest the tires, not the engine. I've been told that TD's like to get a rest lap between hot laps. I find that to be true as well. Another example is that I was at Big Willow in January. Late in the day, Speed District decided to make it open track since many people had left. I ran around 20 hot laps in a row---no problems.

Anyway, I've never posted about this on the forum yet because I was kinda testing it out for EAS and wanted to see how effective it was. But it's been over 6 months now and at least 15 track days, and it's performed very very well for me, so I'm happy to recommend it. (I also had them add a hard on/off switch so that the system would not activate while driving in the city.)

Honestly, if you have a supercharged M3, this misting system is a no-brainer. It's not that expensive, and you can get a lot more from your track days.

AND for all you NA guys----they just installed a misting system into an NA M3 that should hit the track in a couple weeks. They're trying a different triggering method since with NA, boost isn't an option. We're all very curious to hear how it performs. (This car has been overheating on the track, so it will be interesting to see the results.)

People ask me, "what temp does the car get to with the misting system?" Here's a pic of what it looks look like at it's hottest. Basically, the needle gets to this point and then never goes beyond it----as long as there's water in the system. It doesn't seem to matter how hot the ambient temp is, or how hard you drive. The needle goes there and stays. And it recovers fairly quickly when you back off.

If you guys have any other questions about this system, I suggest asking EAS. They know all the particulars.

My car has never gone past that dot, ever. Even tracking the car in 105 degree weather at Thunderhill with a supercharger. I think 6MT's just don't get as hot at DCT.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by SpiralOut

Hey dogbone, any heat or other issues with your supercharger on track? I may consider a SC if I end up keeping the car, but seems like most trackers recommend the smaller kit like the 585ish size.

You won't make much more power at all on the track with the non intercooler kit. In fact I started running faster times once I removed my kit. The lighter weight, more balanced weight distribution, and more linear power of N/A outweighed what little extra power the S/C provided after it heat soaked after a couple laps.

[dogbone]

Really? My car frequently would get right near the 300 pretty quickly. As it neared 300, I would start getting warnings on the screen about temps being too high, and that I needed to drive more moderately.

Now, I never go beyond this point. And I haven't seen a temp warning since.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

My car has never gone past that dot, ever. Even tracking the car in 105 degree weather at Thunderhill with a supercharger. I think 6MT's just don't get as hot at DCT.

This is what I've heard from a host of 6MT M3's track people.

[dapopa9]

Originally Posted by OC3

This is what I've heard from a host of 6MT M3's track people.

Yes in my E90 M3 6MT I consistently would run a full 20 - 25 minute session with no 'cool down' laps in the middle and never once had an overheating issue. I ran many days that had ambient temps of 90 - 105 degrees.

[Foozed]

Originally Posted by SpiralOut

Nice job Bill! My VIR event last Friday got cancelled, but I'll be up there tomorrow to see how fast the new surface is.

Is it an open day tomorrow?

[dazedone]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Everyone who knows me at the track knows me as the Euro-MDM guy. I've been doing some DSC-off driving lately, but when I'm "going for it", I still leave MDM on. I've learned how to work around it so that it doesn't interfere much. I would say the biggest intrusion from MDM is that I have to wait a moment to get on the gas at the apex. People who watch my videos say that I need to get on the gas earlier after corners. I agree with their assessment, but MDM won't let me. In driving with it off, it is quite obvious how I am able to get on the gas earlier.

The supercharger is quite fun on the track. Even with a supercharger, the car does not have undue amounts of torque. It's not an untamable beast. But you do have to modulate the throttle quite a bit more than an NA M3. People are always saying with NA M3's that they are "flat out" all over the place……not me. I need to modulate a lot more. But it's not hard to learn. I've had people drive my car and immediately break their personal best in my car on their first hot lap. To me that means the car is easy to drive and predictable.

My advice about MDM is to just go at your own pace. Don't let anyone peer pressure you or shame you into DSC-off. I get tons of peer pressure. And that's ok. I have practiced on a skid pad a fair amount, so I'm actually ok with the car going sideways. I would suggest auto-crossing and hitting the skid pad to get those dynamics going at lower speeds.

I decided to forgo euro MDM and go DSC off yesterday at Willow and this is what happened. I'm too much of a noob and don't have enough practice to instinctively correct my screw-ups. I really need to go to a race school and practice this stuff on other people's cars. I got rock chips all over the side of my car . Euro MDM will remain on until I can properly get my technique down

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by dazedone

I decided to forgo euro MDM and go DSC off yesterday at Willow and this is what happened. I'm too much of a noob and don't have enough practice to instinctively correct my screw-ups. I really need to go to a race school and practice this stuff on other people's cars. I got rock chips all over the side of my car . Euro MDM will remain on until I can properly get my technique down

Classic power on oversteer. Next time try to anticipate that, if you do, you will be able to react almost immediately. Small, but quick coutersteer whould have prevented that spin. Corrective steering should be rapid enough to catch the back of the car before it starts to slide.