Buttonwillow 13CW 07.20.2013 - 2:07 in 100% stock form

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

Looks like fun. I'm surprised the PS2's held up.. I only have 2 events this year (I just got my M3) and i'm debating just using my PS2's but i'm not sure they will hold up... i'm concerned they will either melt or cord. I'm debating on getting a set of AD08's or waiting until next season to get new tires.

Give the R3s a try, I have them on my car. They are a great overall tire...street, wet, dry, track, etc.

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Give the R3s a try, I have them on my car. They are a great overall tire...street, wet, dry, track, etc.

Yeah i've heard great things about the RS3 however i'm looking to stick to stock sizes.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

Looks like fun. I'm surprised the PS2's held up.. I only have 2 events this year (I just got my M3) and i'm debating just using my PS2's but i'm not sure they will hold up... i'm concerned they will either melt or cord. I'm debating on getting a set of AD08's or waiting until next season to get new tires.

Well, I ran only 2 morning sessions this day, and alternated hot and cool-down laps during those 2 sessions. I was more concerned about the brakes.

In any case, at weekend-hobby HPDE pace, we won't be destroying PS2's in one event...

AD08s are good track tires that also last relatively long time.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by OC3

Well, I ran only 2 morning sessions this day, and alternated hot and cool-down laps during those 2 sessions. I was more concerned about the brakes.

In any case, at weekend-hobby HPDE pace, we won't be destroying PS2's in one event...

AD08s are good track tires that also last relatively long time.

How would you compare the AD08s versus the RS3s?

[OC3]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

How would you compare the AD08s versus the RS3s?

In terms of grip/performance, the following are the tires I, and a bunch of SoCal track buddies tried, and my opinion is: PS2 < PSS < AD08 < RS3 < NT01 < TD.

In terms of longevity, AD08 seems to last the longest.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by OC3

In terms of grip/performance, the following are the tires I, and a bunch of SoCal track buddies tried, and my opinion is: PS2 < PSS < AD08 < RS3 < NT01 < TD.

In terms of longevity, AD08 seems to last the longest.

Do the AD08 have more heat cycles in them than the RS3s? I'm going to run the NT01s on my 18s and then either the RS3s or AD08s on my 19s.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Do the AD08 have more heat cycles in them than the RS3s? I'm going to run the NT01s on my 18s and then either the RS3s or AD08s on my 19s.

If you're looking for longevity, go with AD08s.

For many of us, RS3s seem to heat cycle out after... 4 or 5 days. (cars with aero seem to overcome that & retain grip for more days due to the rear wing pressing down on the rear tires.)

[klammer]

+1 for the AD08's. They last forever!

[03///m3]

I decided to go with the AD08's.

[Billj747]

OC3 - What was your setup when you did a 1:58?

What tires were you running 34psi hot?

I have a lot of time on AD08, RS3, and PS2 but have not driven the PSS. You really think the PSS is not as good as the AD08?

[OC3]

Oh wow, if it isn't Billy Johnson himself. Seen your BW13 videos and admire your achievements.

Originally Posted by Billj747

OC3 - What was your setup when you did a 1:58?

2011 E90 M3. Mods were JRZ RS Pro 2-way suspension, -3.5f & -2.5r camber, Brembo GT BBK (365mm f/345mm r) w/ Endless ME20 pads, Volk TE37SL 18x10.5 squared and new set of TD's 265/35/18f & 285/30/18r (i.e. suspension, brakes & tires).

Otherwise, completely stock (engine/exhaust/interior/exterior), and certainly no aero.

Originally Posted by Billj747

What tires were you running 34psi hot?

As stated above, Hankook TD's, soft compound. This was in mid February this year.

During mid-summer, I'd aim for 31psi hot.

Originally Posted by Billj747

I have a lot of time on AD08, RS3, and PS2 but have not driven the PSS. You really think the PSS is not as good as the AD08?

From my limited experience, that's the conclusion I reached. Tracked both PSS & AD/08 during my first 12 months of tracking (in 2011) and PSS seems to get greasy sooner and, if you're not careful with watching the pressure/temp, they'll cord & chunck easily. At this point in my tracking journey, and it being around 2 years since I tracked those, it would be interesting to test them back to back on the same day and see if I still feel that way.

But, that's a test setup I'll probably not be able to do (nor have the interest in doing), so I'll just have to settle for comparing the tread wear rating of 300 (PSS) vs 180 (AD/08), which is obviously also indication of 'stickiness,' and conclude that my impression back then was probably not incorrect.

[03///m3]

What cold and hot temps are ideal with the AD08?

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by OC3

Oh wow, if it isn't Billy Johnson himself. Seen your BW13 videos and admire your achievements.

2011 E90 M3. Mods were JRZ RS Pro 2-way suspension, -3.5f & -2.5r camber, Brembo GT BBK (365mm f/345mm r) w/ Endless ME20 pads, Volk TE37SL 18x10.5 squared and new set of TD's 265/35/18f & 285/30/18r (i.e. suspension, brakes & tires).

Otherwise, completely stock (engine/exhaust/interior/exterior), and certainly no aero.

As stated above, Hankook TD's, soft compound. This was in mid February this year.

During mid-summer, I'd aim for 31psi hot.

From my limited experience, that's the conclusion I reached. Tracked both PSS & AD/08 during my first 12 months of tracking (in 2011) and PSS seems to get greasy sooner and, if you're not careful with watching the pressure/temp, they'll cord & chunck easily. At this point in my tracking journey, and it being around 2 years since I tracked those, it would be interesting to test them back to back on the same day and see if I still feel that way.

But, that's a test setup I'll probably not be able to do (nor have the interest in doing), so I'll just have to settle for comparing the tread wear rating of 300 (PSS) vs 180 (AD/08), which is obviously also indication of 'stickiness,' and conclude that my impression back then was probably not incorrect.

Impressive time for such a heavy car and no aero. I did a 2:03.1 in a stock C63 AMG with a +80hp tune, wheels, and Continental Contact 3 tires a few years ago.

31psi seems pretty low for such a heavy car too, I've tend to shoot for 36-38psi hot in most of the street tire cars ive driven and while i'd go to mid-low 30s on R-comp tires, for a heavier cars (like GTRs and sedans), I typically ran slightly higher than I would on a lighter car.

In the One Lap of America the PSS is the tire to have and (for their rule restrictions) and they seem to hold up quite well and was meaning to try them, but if they aren't clearly better than the AD08 I might not pony up the $ for them.

Keep in mind the tread wear rating is an irrelevant, subjective, marketing tool for tire companies with no baseline or standards. Just because a tire has a higher TW rating does not mean it lasts longer or is less sticky. In the HPS class of tires, manufacturers will alter the TW # to make it more competitive for various competition classes or marketing purposes. Unfortunately the only way to truly test grip/longevity is to try them yourself or get a general consensus from those who have compared them.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Impressive time for such a heavy car and no aero. I did a 2:03.1 in a stock C63 AMG with a +80hp tune, wheels, and Continental Contact 3 tires a few years ago.

31psi seems pretty low for such a heavy car too, I've tend to shoot for 36-38psi hot in most of the street tire cars ive driven and while i'd go to mid-low 30s on R-comp tires, for a heavier cars (like GTRs and sedans), I typically ran slightly higher than I would on a lighter car.

In the One Lap of America the PSS is the tire to have and (for their rule restrictions) and they seem to hold up quite well and was meaning to try them, but if they aren't clearly better than the AD08 I might not pony up the $ for them.

Keep in mind the tread wear rating is an irrelevant, subjective, marketing tool for tire companies with no baseline or standards. Just because a tire has a higher TW rating does not mean it lasts longer or is less sticky. In the HPS class of tires, manufacturers will alter the TW # to make it more competitive for various competition classes or marketing purposes. Unfortunately the only way to truly test grip/longevity is to try them yourself or get a general consensus from those who have compared them.

Thanks.

Re: 31 psi, I ran 34 psi hot in February and, when I came back to Buttonwillow in considerably warmer April with another fresh set of TD's, I ran 34 psi hot again and, to my disappointment, I could do no better than 2 minute flat, and I felt I drove better too.

Then, towards the end of the day, was talking to another Speed Ventures bimmer challenge participant who ran 1:58 that day in his Z3M w/ aero and TD, and he said he ran 31 psi hot based on a recommendation from a tuning shop (whose supercharged E46 M3 Tarzan Yamada drove last couple of years). And, Robert/RobeSpec was nearby and goes, oh yeah on a hot day like this, 31 psi hot, especially since TD's have stff sidewalls.

Hence, my plan to run 31 psi hot during summer months. Haven't been able to try it yet though, as I traded in my car for a new 2013 model in May and it's still in stock form.

But, re: weight, since my stock M3 is heavier than a stripped Z3M, may be try 32 or 33 psi hot and adjust from there.

[Billj747]

I've never tried the TDs but fwiw Tarzans e46 is stripped with a lot of aero.

[OC3]

TD's is... it's like cheating, haha. Considerably better than NT01's. You know, being a new chemical compound & all...

[OC3]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

What cold and hot temps are ideal with the AD08?

I used to track them at 38psi hot.

And, on the street, 38psi cold.

[dapopa9]

BTW I noticed Walmart now carries the NT01 tires! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nitto-371-010/19473374

[OC3]

Originally Posted by dapopa9

BTW I noticed Walmart now carries the NT01 tires! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nitto-371-010/19473374

That's a decent price!

[dapopa9]

yeah and looks like the only charge $11 to mount them which is about half what I normally pay

[dapopa9]

or actually only $5 for carry-in rims! damn wish I would have known that sooner!

[OC3]

Like you need to watch your pennies.