Nissan GT-R might not be as under-rated as we all had suspected:

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

What is really funny Bruce is how you are ASSUMING the US (or NA) car WILL be slower than it is in the rest of the world. I don't care one way or the other if it is, although I will be interested in the reason for any differences should they happen. You do realize that Nissan (and most Nissan fans and fanboys) have been "guaranteeing" that the car is a "world spec" car, identical everywhere.

Nice job of assumptions and "pre-excuses" for under performance before the car even gets here. I will emphasize your choice of words here as well, you said "when" not "if". That's particularly funny to me.

Swamp, I don't get this.

As you know, I try to be careful about words, so I thought I made it perfectly clear that I am assuming (no, sorry, ASSUMING) that the U.S. spec car will have a watered-down launch control algorithm.

Then, you accuse me of making that perfectly clear assumption - and that's "really funny".

What?

Back on your meds, guy.

I'll personally be delighted if the U.S. spec car has the full magilla, but will be scratching my head about how they're going to get out from under a boatload of warranty claims, given our penchant for hot-damn launches - at the drag strip or on the way to the grocery store. BMW watered down the launch software for the U.S. for good reason, and I ASSUME Nissan ain't dumb.

Bruce

[footie]

Bruce,

Knowing just how strong Nissan made their other versions of the GTR I would have thought that if any company would keep things intact it would be Nissan. Remember when they developed the last R34 GTR for Europe they included radiators for just about every moving component just because we had a higher than 112mph top speed.

Nissan will want the GTR to be every bit a good in the US as it is every where else.

Would you not concur.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by footie

Bruce,

Knowing just how strong Nissan made their other versions of the GTR I would have thought that if any company would keep things intact it would be Nissan. Remember when they developed the last R34 GTR for Europe they included radiators for just about every moving component just because we had a higher than 112mph top speed.

Nissan will want the GTR to be every bit a good in the US as it is every where else.

Would you not concur.

As I said, I'd be delighted and bewildered if they allow the same launch control in the U.S. as they currently do in the Japan cars (and presumably the Euro-spec cars).

BMW would want the same specs as well, but felt they couldn't afford it, apparently.

Again, I'd be delighted and bewildered.

Bruce

[southlight]

That's the answer, both cars are underrated:
http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=785


Best regards, south

[DC52E55]

GTR is one of the worst cars ever made in the history. I just want to throw up everytime I hear someone says GTR. YUCK!

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22031

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by DC52E55

GTR is one of the worst cars ever made in the history. I just want to throw up everytime I hear someone says GTR. YUCK!

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22031

okay ur trying to be sarcastic i get it now

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mantis

okay ur trying to be sarcastic i get it now

L did a good job I suppose.


Best regards, south

[footie]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

As I said, I'd be delighted and bewildered if they allow the same launch control in the U.S. as they currently do in the Japan cars (and presumably the Euro-spec cars).

BMW would want the same specs as well, but felt they couldn't afford it, apparently.

Again, I'd be delighted and bewildered.

Bruce

Bruce,

You can't look at what BMW decided to do and expect Nissan to cope, like I said Nissan don't cut corners unlike BMW. If they feel that the car needs to be beefed up to deal with the launch control then they will, that is the difference.

I would be gobsmacked if it wasn't the same.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by southlight

L did a good job I suppose.


Best regards, south

sorry bro. im just a very sensitive person, i dont take sarcasm too well.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mantis

sorry bro. im just a very sensitive person, i dont take sarcasm too well.

I'll keep that in mind. Anyway there's a lot of it all over m3post...hard time for you, I guess?


Best regards, south

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by southlight

I'll keep that in mind. Anyway there's a lot of it all over m3post...hard time for you, I guess?


Best regards, south

this is me when im on M3post

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by footie

Bruce,

You can't look at what BMW decided to do and expect Nissan to cope, like I said Nissan don't cut corners unlike BMW. If they feel that the car needs to be beefed up to deal with the launch control then they will, that is the difference.

I would be gobsmacked if it wasn't the same.

Hope you're right - and love the remark.

Bruce

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Swamp, I don't get this.

As you know, I try to be careful about words, so I thought I made it perfectly clear that I am assuming (no, sorry, ASSUMING) that the U.S. spec car will have a watered-down launch control algorithm.

Then, you accuse me of making that perfectly clear assumption - and that's "really funny".

What?

Back on your meds, guy.

I'll personally be delighted if the U.S. spec car has the full magilla, but will be scratching my head about how they're going to get out from under a boatload of warranty claims, given our penchant for hot-damn launches - at the drag strip or on the way to the grocery store. BMW watered down the launch software for the U.S. for good reason, and I ASSUME Nissan ain't dumb.

Bruce

Thanks for the insults Bruce, real mature, NOT. Comments littered with such crap don't usually deserve a reply nor my time but I will humor you.

The funny thing here is that there are those who are huge GT-R fans (and fanboys) and those who are not. As much as I appreciate and respect the car I still really don't fall into the "huge fan" camp. So the fans praise and others find fault. Despite my respect for the car I am very skeptical. I don't as much find fault but like to look at all of the evidence, some of which I believe is inconsistent. So when the fans like yourself start making excuses for the cars poor performance in the US, I find it really comical. Then to use it to poke fun at me for my skepticsim. Pure irony Bruce, pure irony.

And by the way Mr. Careful With Words what part of your post on this topic made and hint of an assumption about a watered down LC? If you re read your own post it was stated totally matter of fact that it will be watered down and I will over react to that. Wrong on both counts, not careful nor clear and wrong about what my reaction would be.

Just to be clear I do agree that a limp LC will be very likely for the GT-R for the US, probably just like the M3 with M-DCT. Luckily that will be fairly easy to fix with software.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Thanks for the insults Bruce, real mature, NOT. Comments littered with such crap don't usually deserve a reply nor my time but I will humor you.

Uhh, thank you?

Originally Posted by swamp2

The funny thing here is that there are those who are huge GT-R fans (and fanboys) and those who are not. As much as I appreciate and respect the car I still really don't fall into the "huge fan" camp. So the fans praise and others find fault. Despite my respect for the car I am very skeptical. I don't as much find fault but like to look at all of the evidence, some of which I believe is inconsistent. So when the fans like yourself start making excuses for the cars poor performance in the US, I find it really comical. Then to use it to poke fun at me for my skepticsim. Pure irony Bruce, pure irony.

You're saying the GT-R will have poor performance in the U.S.?

Snicker.

Originally Posted by swamp2

And by the way Mr. Careful With Words what part of your post on this topic made and hint of an assumption about a watered down LC? If you re read your own post it was stated totally matter of fact that it will be watered down and I will over react to that. Wrong on both counts, not careful nor clear and wrong about what my reaction would be.

I will be amazed if the GT-R doesn't have a hobbled LC mode in the U.S., and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn about your reaction.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Just to be clear I do agree that a limp LC will be very likely for the GT-R for the US, probably just like the M3 with M-DCT. Luckily that will be fairly easy to fix with software.

So you agree, but didn't like the wording? Snicker.

By the way, there's simply no possibility that I'll ever be interested in possessing a GT-R. If somebody gave me one, I'd sell it. For various reasons, it's just not my kind of car. I simply love the fact that it occupies new ground in the performance wars, and that's always good.

Sadly, I'm feeling almost the same about the new M3. Having experienced the E36 and E46 versions over the long haul, I'll give the new one a quick try, I guess, but I ain't really hopeful. This M trend of bigger and heavier just doesn't do it for me.

I'm getting interested in the 1 series, however. Still way too heavy, but maybe the shorter wheelbase will make it seem more tossable.

Bruce

[!Xoible]

i cant instigate, huh? not needed anyway.

[OzCarfreak]

GTRs running 11.?? stock stop knocking it it walks m3/m5/m6 all day long lets just move on

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

You're saying the GT-R will have poor performance in the U.S.?

No, I should clarify that. If it gets a crippled LC or any other crippling it's performance will obvisouly suffer, poor would be an over statement.

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn about your reaction.

Again a direct contradiction. If you don't care why the post claiming I will be the first in line to incorrectly over react? You certainy gave a damn enough to start a silly little post on the topic.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

...Again a direct contradiction. If you don't care why the post claiming I will be the first in line to incorrectly over react? You certainy gave a damn enough to start a silly little post on the topic.

Uh-h, it was an observation?

It also was a reminder about those days of yesteryear when your sillyness quotient ran sky high in that "massively over rated" string. Makes me grin every time I think about it.

Bruce

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Uh-h, it was an observation?

It also was a reminder about those days of yesteryear when your sillyness quotient ran sky high in that "massively over rated" string. Makes me grin every time I think about it.

Bruce

I'm am glad your skepticism quotient is so much lower then mine. The cars laptime and the (likely in error) dyno at the time formed a reasonable basis for the claim. Is it equally as funny that I have adjusted my "theory" as we obtain more and more information? Does that provide you with as many jollies ... no, I'm sure not, such occurences are never as interesting but reflect the essense of my approach to things in general.

Please recall one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite fellows.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

-Carl Sagan

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I'm am glad your skepticism quotient is so much lower then mine. The cars laptime and the (likely in error) dyno at the time formed a reasonable basis for the claim. Is it equally as funny that I have adjusted my "theory" as we obtain more and more information? Does that provide you with as many jollies ... no, I'm sure not, such occurences are never as interesting but reflect the essense of my approach to things in general.

It was the overall kicking and screaming on your part as you were drawn to the obvious that makes me grin when I remember it.

I say obvious because for me the issue was more or less closed when a couple of testers reported that the Porsche could pull the Nissan from a roll, and that the two were closely matched in top speed. That fact has since been reported over and over, the latest example of which is in a multi-car comparison test in the current issue of "Car". The Nissan gets around the track quicker, but the Porsche has the highest speed (by around four percent or so) on the straight. Of course, you and I know just what a four percent speed advantage means in terms of power to weight.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Please recall one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite fellows.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

-Carl Sagan

You'll get no fight from me regarding Sagan. I thought we all lost when he died. Nobody before or since has been able to capture the public the way he did with his fascinating observations on interesting things in the universe. I've dabbled with astronomy since I was a kid, and from time to time, I still drag my long-suffering bride outside on a cold night to view some damn cloud or other a few million light years away.

But hey, I digress. Let me turn that quote around on you. You and lucid did some very nice work on corellation between power to weight and 'Ring times, but you needed (and still need) a bunch more data for you to declare with any conviction at all that the GT-R is a ringer. The Porsche gets around a couple of seconds slower, but of course we all know the Turbo is a real handful at the limit, and as Danny Ongais once said, "You need three feet to drive this car fast."

There simply aren't enough cars around like the Nissan and Porsche for you to draw any reasonable conclusions from 'Ring times and power to weight.

Bruce

[OzCarfreak]

Stop kidding yourself dude GTr owns m3 by a country mile, i looked over one today too, its stunning! m3 is cooked before it even got started im afraid to say. GTR for me

[Robert]

Originally Posted by OzCarfreak

Stop kidding yourself dude GTr owns m3 by a country mile, i looked over one today too, its stunning! m3 is cooked before it even got started im afraid to say. GTR for me

Aren't you a dreamcrusher!