BMW call this "Premium Sound?"

[MTrizzy]

my family has/still does own a 2005 645i, 2008 2007 and 2004 750il/745il, 2005 330ci, 2007 335xi all with their respective premium sound packages...and we all agree my M3 blows all of those sound systems away....this sound system may not be up to your standards but imo it is the finest sound system BMW has ever produced (whether that means anything is ultimately up to you)...particularly interesting to me is that most of the complements I have received have been regarding the bass\low end response!

I am with greg here, I would check to see if those front woofers are working...

in either case though, good luck and let us know what you end up going with.

[wgerman]

Originally Posted by badfish

The radio doesn't need to be replaced. I especially wanted to keep mine for the bluetooth and BMW assist to continue functioning nicely. Capacitor for this system is unnecessary, Dynamat would help a little if anything, not worth the trouble to go all out. So you just need an inline fuse which runs about $5 for a 4 gauge inline fuse. I bought 18 feet of 4 gauge power and ground, I thought it was expensive for $28 (rising copper prices) and I won't even need that much since I will leave the amp in the factory position and get power and ground at the battery. Granted, I get these things from distributors at lower prices but if you shop around you can get close to the same pricing.



There are lots of things in here I'd like to address. First, I agree overall with your assessment on adding aftermarket equipment to cars like the BMW. The cars nowadays are getting less and less installer friendly. The kits that Metra put out are mostly cheap plastic. I've been doing car audio for a number of years for competition and for business.

I've been researching the stereo angle on the M3 for a while and thanks to people like Technic (a resident expert), I've found for myself a very acceptable plan for my system. The factory head unit for the hifi system doesn't need line output converters because the head unit puts out a line level signal to the amplifier. You simply cut the wire from the harness and solder in some RCA leads and those go directly to the Alpine amp. Last night I started mounting that amp and I removed the factory amp and it fit right in the same location. It weighs a pound or two more than the OEM amp. Power consumption on the electrical system I think will be more, but not unacceptably more. The Alpine is a Class D amplifier which extremely efficient. The fuse on the amp is about 60 amps, I haven't checked on the max current draw yet but it will not be more than 60 amps. To add to that, I have so much more power headroom than the premium or hifi systems. My RMS power (not max) is 4x105 + 408 watts on the sub. The OEM premium system puts out 825 watts max, which is around 412 watts RMS if they are using peak to peak rating. Power isn't everything though, but it helps!

The OEM subs for both the premium and hifi system were designed by Earthquake. I spoke to their engineers and verified that. The Earthquake subs are virtual drop-in replacements and the guy that helped design the BMW subwoofer told me the SWS subs are a lot better. I've used the SWS subs in my other cars with good results. So at the minimum, it is an upgrade over the stock subs. There are many others who have done this upgrade and noticed a huge improvement, like here. Weight wise, maybe we gain another pound or two. These slim replacement subs are great, but the JL Stealthbox option will definitely sound better and add a bit more weight.

That's great that the premium system satisfies the majority of the owners that purchased it. For me, I have better options with that money. It all depends what you want. I look forward to the next generation of the headless systems that Alpine and Kenwood have (Vehicle hub and Portal) that will allow me to add HD radio, satellite, navigation, video/multimedia. The only thing holding me back right now is the lack of video capability on mass storage devices. To keep this all working with the BMW assist and bluetooth you can go aux-in. Or u can ditch the BMW assist and use bluetooth on the hub/portal system.

1. Are you going to replace the mids and tweets too? They are built by Eton GMBH, a driver manufacturer in Germany that supplies drivers to various high end speaker makes just as Scanspeak does to other companies. Eton also makes drivers for Diamond and JL Audio aftermarket car speakers. I would think the mids and tweets then would satisfy you.

2. Interesting that Earthquake was consulted by BMW on the low frequency part of the system.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by badfish

That's great that the premium system satisfies the majority of the owners that purchased it. For me, I have better options with that money. It all depends what you want. I look forward to the next generation of the headless systems that Alpine and Kenwood have (Vehicle hub and Portal) that will allow me to add HD radio, satellite, navigation, video/multimedia. The only thing holding me back right now is the lack of video capability on mass storage devices. To keep this all working with the BMW assist and bluetooth you can go aux-in. Or u can ditch the BMW assist and use bluetooth on the hub/portal system.

what about the compability of the m3? is it the same procedure as the with the 3.xx ?

This idea of "easy soundimproving" sounds great ( i looked up the components, about 700$ with all additional costs), but i m afraid that i m all but a hi-fi-crack( will ask some friends).

[serven7]

Im no audio expert but when I turned my stereo up the first time I thought it was crap but then I started pressing buttons and now I love it. I was hoping someone savvy in this department could help me with the best settings for good old fashion rock & roll. bass/treble level and EQ settings I currently have Pencilgeeks settings is that best for my taste in music?

[drvai]

Originally Posted by serven7

Im no audio expert but when I turned my stereo up the first time I thought it was crap but then I started pressing buttons and now I love it. I was hoping someone savvy in this department could help me with the best settings for good old fashion rock & roll. bass/treble level and EQ settings I currently have Pencilgeeks settings is that best for my taste in music?

You should go for a "U pattern" EQ. That's high treble and bass with mid frequency at a neutral position.

[Gemcoska]

Pencil Geek- Would you mind posting your EQ settings? I'd like to see how my settings would compare to yours. I assume that there would be differences based on the type of music we listen to. However, it would be nice to have someone with your background provide a baseline.
Rob

[rvacha]

Thanks for the info PG-
I would be interested to hear what you think this setup sounds like. What your equipment says you need for flat is TOTALLY opposite of what you thought sounded acceptable in the beginning of this thread.

1. I assume leather interior, i.e. not speed cloth?
2. Any windows open?
3. I assume you used the CD drive for the audio source - could you please rip this in some lossless format and run the test through the 6FL USB port? I suspect they will not test the same

[st08m3]

Thanks PG. I noticed you were +3 to the rear. I presume you did this for personal preference prior to taking measurements to set a flat environment? Or was it impossible for you to create a "flat" setup with an even distribution for front and rear? I have noticed that some systems that claim to be "high end" car audio tend to have distributed volume to the front similar to a 5.1 system even in stereo mode. I'm guessing BMW may be doing this if you had to push sound to the rear.

One last question for everyone who has provided an opinion. How long have you run your sound system? Keep in mind there is a break in period on audio equipment and it can have a signficant impact on how the system performs, especially speakers that can require 100 - 500 hours to break in. Knowing how new the E9x is i doubt many are listening to a well broken in system but i'm interested if this has been accounted for.

[wgerman]

Oops....Maybe I should have addressed this post to Pencilgeek since he will be replacing his system. This is from my previous post:

1. Are you going to replace the mids and tweeters too? They are built by Eton GMBH, a driver manufacturer in Germany that supplies drivers to various high end speaker makes just as Scanspeak does to other companies. Eton also makes drivers for Diamond and JL Audio aftermarket car speakers. I would think the mids and tweets then would satisfy you.

2. Interesting that Earthquake was consulted by BMW on the low frequency part of the system.

[rvacha]

That's cool. I very much appreciate the effort you have made to date

[st08m3]

PG, question on your statement -

Here's some final thoughts. These settings were made with the car stationary, in the garage, doors shut, engine off, windows up. These settings generated "flat" response under those conditions. I knew that I'd want to adjust something a little more to compensate for road noise -- once I began driving. Once I had these settings in my EQ, I don't want to touch them to compensate for road noise. Instead, I'd now use the trebble/bass settings...to match my personal preferences.

I adjusted those as follows:
Trebble: +0
Bass: +3

Are you suggesting that the treble & bass response adjustments are an "overlay" to the EQ setting that you previously established? or does it completely reset your EQ back to 0 for all frequency ranges when you mess with the bass and treble adjustments? Also, do you know if the bass and treble adjustments change their respective frequency bands uniformly or if there is some other formula (eg. higher treble frequencies gain quicker than lower treble frequencies)? Thanks for all the hours of work. I too burn tons of $$$ on my home systems and never expect to achieve truly accurate sound reproduction in the car. However, there are definitely acceptable vs. unacceptable systems. I'm not ready to tear up a nice car to install a completely custom system.

[MTrizzy]

thanks for your time and input. Much appreciated I will be trying these settings out maybe i can teach my ears some things...

[Zed]

+1. Boy I can I totally relate to that. If my wife isn't in the car, she calls me on my cell. I don't think the fairer sex are comfortable with sitting next to each other (in a car or elsewhere) and not filling the space with mouth noises. I think making it through a 90 minute movie about kills her. Given that minor annoyance, her good points more than make up for it. [Yes... she is sitting here next to me. ]

[st08m3]

Again thanks PG. I don't have the $6k in testing equipment at my house, only a db meter that can be set to certain frequency bands so it would be a very manual process to set. The bass and treble "overlay" makes sense to me but i thought i had remembered in the past that cars reset all frequency ranges when you use the bass treble. I'm glad to hear they've become more sophisticated.

[Gemcoska]

+1 Again for PG, its good to have basis for all your opinions and I appreciate the work and your willingness to share it.

Now... Time to enjoy!

[yahtzee]

So is this kind of like a starting point for adjustments or is this where you keep your settings?

[Epacy]

Your +8 setting on 2k is way too high. I checked it and it sounds very abnormal. Overall, from those settings I find it to be too tin-ie. Mid-range needs to be dialed down some.
From what I can tell, I find the system to be lacking a bit in overall clarity.

[DanM3]

Originally Posted by fmquadri

the E92's Premium system - high's are bright, sub bass is decent, mid-bass is lacking with most music. Cranking up the volume and the EQ in the mid-bass range helps a lot. With 320kbps MP3's the music sound pretty damn good. I think the E92's system is better than Toyotas and that they did a great job with staging (once set correctly).

fmquadri, Have you heard the standard E92 M3 sound system ? I only listened for a minute or so to the premium system and found it very harsh and bright. I had to turn it down. Do you know if the 'standard' system is just as bright or is it more mellow and laid back ?

Thanks in advance.

Danny

[hakaida442]

How does the Eton speakers in the premium system compare with other speaker companies like Rainbow, Dynaudio, and Zapco?

[Keto]

One of the many reasons I am glad PencilGeek showed us his analysis is that I just can't read people's subjective sound descriptions and take them seriously anymore. They are perfectly valid for that person (ie, don't get mad if I quote you) but I am not sure that they apply to other people listening to the system until there is some sort of subjective consensus. It's like listening to people talk about wine in winespeak with all of the crazy flavor/odor adjectives. "Harsh and bright" might mean too much treble from the system, or the person's particular ears are sensitive to certain frequencies, or that their stereo at home has had one busted tweeter for years and they aren't used to the detail on cymbals and high hat. "Lacks clarity" might mean the source is a bad MP3, or that the high frequencies are down because of overperceived "harshness," or that the rear speakers are overemphasized... other favorite "huh?" phrases include "spacious", "large soundstage," "warm tube sound" and the like.

I say this not to attack a specific subjective opinion -- they are all as valid for the opinionator as anything else -- but I just question the applicability to my ears. It reminds me also of reading about the handling of the M3 pre-release (some hated it, some thought it was spot on, but there was at least some consensus that it was a touch light, but our early owners disagree somewhat).

Anyway, thanks PencilGeek. I plan to use your settings as a baseline for sure.

[fmquadri]

Originally Posted by DanM3

fmquadri, Have you heard the standard E92 M3 sound system ? I only listened for a minute or so to the premium system and found it very harsh and bright. I had to turn it down. Do you know if the 'standard' system is just as bright or is it more mellow and laid back ?

Thanks in advance.

Danny

i didn't listen to the standard stereo on the E92s before purchasing, sorry. What source were you listening to? I find that a lot of MP3s from Itunes or other sources that aren't downloaded in 192 or higher tend to seem very "bright and harsh". They sound very tinny and force me to change the eq settings or at least the treble. My suggestion is spend some time at the dealer (since they all have m3's sitting on lots these days) with your favorite original CD (not a burned one). One that you know well - and have a go. For a stock mfg system, i think they did pretty good. IMO, not worth hacking up the interior to achieve better results.. some may disagree.. but that's just me.

[J08M3]

I have the standard system in mine. While I was at the dealer I sat in M3 with premium before I bought mine and listened to both, the premium is certainly not worth the extra money. It's good sounding, but far from great. The standard sounds a bit muddy at higher volumes, but it was so much cheaper considering you don't need iDrive for it. I'm going to use the money I saved on an aftermarket stereo that will sound better than either one and still be far less money than iDrive and premium sound.