Next Gen 2014 (F32) M3 Performance Simulations/Predictions - She'll Be Fast!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Levi

Sure nothing was confirmed yet, but BMW can't leave it so. THe TT 4.4l V8 is the worst of its category. The new Mercedes 4.7l V8 Biturbo and the the Audi 4.0 TFSI V8 are more efficient and more torquy and powerfull.

Well, first of all the new Audi V8 TFSI is not even on the market yet. But even when it gets here, inside info suggests it will make about 400hp in base form (just like the N63), and 500hp+ in higher output versions (just like the S63).

Second, the Mercedes V8s have been making more power and torque than BMW's for a while now, so nothing new there.

Third, how is lowering the displacement going to help as far as making the engine more competitive? There is no reason they can't improve efficiency with the N63 as is, and still increase engine output as well.

And finally, none of this has any bearing on the reality that there's almost no chance for a V8 in the F3x M3.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by crackberry

i dont think the next m3 will get sub 4secs from 0-60 or anything along those lines

Perhaps you missed my post #158 just above?

[eamon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the m5/6 has always been faster than the m3... Will this mean that if the new m3 will supposedly be sub 4seconds to 60 the other mcars will be even faster than that? That'd be pretty neat to see such a powerful lineup of m cars.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by eamon

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the m5/6 has always been faster than the m3... Will this mean that if the new m3 will supposedly be sub 4seconds to 60 the other mcars will be even faster than that? That'd be pretty neat to see such a powerful lineup of m cars.

M5/6 are faster, but nearly equal in QUICKNESS, at least to 62. Those are two different things.

[Brandon26pdx]

I can't say I'm too excited about the direction they're going in with these new turbocharged cars. They can spin and market till they're blue in the face but turbo engines have their performance compromises and always will. There's always going to be a little bit of lag, loss of throttle response and crispness, and the torque curves are always screwy. A turbo engine that keeps building power all the way to the top will have unacceptable lag for a factory car even with a fancy twinscroll, while one with just a wisp of lag down low will give you a great rush a power in the 2.5-5k rpm range and will fall flat and unexciting in the 5k+ rpm range. Neither one of these scenario's are "///M material" to me.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx

I can't say I'm too excited about the direction they're going in with these new turbocharged cars. They can spin and market till they're blue in face but turbo engines have their performance compromises and always will. There's always going to be a little bit of lag, loss of throttle response and crispness, and the torque curves are always screwy. A turbo engine that keeps building power all the way to the top will have unacceptable lag for a factory car even with a fancy twinscroll, while one with just a wisp of lag down low will give you a great rush a power in the 2.5-5k rpm range and will fall flat and unexciting in the 5k+ rpm range. Neither one of these scenario's are "///M material" to me.

Well, in general you are correct, but engineering can overcome much of this. I venture to say the McLaren MP4-12C with 600 hp & 600 nm torque from 3.8 liters is a good example. 8,500 rpm redline in a twin-turbo V8. Obviously, this is at a different price point than the M3, but suffice to say BMW has some pretty good engineers and pretty good engineering budgets.

[klammer]

me.[/quote]
Well, in general you are correct, but engineering can overcome much of this. I venture to say the McLaren MP4-12C with 600 hp

[Levi]

There is an explanation to why the MP4-12C has such a high reving turbo engine. It is a 3.798 cc 90° V8, that has a bore x stroke of 93 mm x 69.9 mm. I don't know how is it possble to get such a stroke from the N55.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Levi

There is an explanation to why the MP4-12C has such a high reving turbo engine. It is a 3.798 cc 90° V8, that has a bore x stroke of 93 mm x 69.9 mm. I don't know how is it possble to get such a stroke from the N55.

True, that was nearly a clean sheet engine, and BMW will not have such latitude for a lower price point unit.

[kyoo]

Does seem quite optimistic.. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of this direction BMW is taking with stepwise upgrades in performance up to the M.. its kind of bloating the lineup and making things a little more confusing, not to mention allowing the M3 to go higher and higher in MSRP..

Kind of reminds me of what's going on with the corvette now, or maybe even with the different variants of the 911 (I realize its a different situation since its the same car with different higher performance versions).
I'm just expressing a little concern that one day the only way to get the ultimate m3 will be shelling out like 100k and everyone who could have had the ultimate 3 series will have to get an 335si or ssi or ssiM blah blah blah...

If the M becomes like the ZR1, and everything under it (335i, whatever) become like the Z06, GrandSport, base C6, etc, I don't know if I would be happy getting those versions over the M version.. yet I don't know if I would be able to afford, speculatively, the future M3 - and I also think it could hurt sales of the lineup too.

We all have egos, a lot of us wouldn't be satisfied not having the best 3 series - myself included. I think if I couldnt afford the "best" M3 I'd turn away from the lineup entirely instead of getting the 3 series performance car I could afford.

not sure if I conveyed my thoughts very clearly there

[klammer]

Originally Posted by kyoo

Does seem quite optimistic.. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of this direction BMW is taking with stepwise upgrades in performance up to the M.. its kind of bloating the lineup and making things a little more confusing, not to mention allowing the M3 to go higher and higher in MSRP..

Kind of reminds me of what's going on with the corvette now, or maybe even with the different variants of the 911 (I realize its a different situation since its the same car with different higher performance versions).
I'm just expressing a little concern that one day the only way to get the ultimate m3 will be shelling out like 100k and everyone who could have had the ultimate 3 series will have to get an 335si or ssi or ssiM blah blah blah...

If the M becomes like the ZR1, and everything under it (335i, whatever) become like the Z06, GrandSport, base C6, etc, I don't know if I would be happy getting those versions over the M version.. yet I don't know if I would be able to afford, speculatively, the future M3 - and I also think it could hurt sales of the lineup too.

We all have egos, a lot of us wouldn't be satisfied not having the best 3 series - myself included. I think if I couldnt afford the "best" M3 I'd turn away from the lineup entirely instead of getting the 3 series performance car I could afford.

not sure if I conveyed my thoughts very clearly there

I got it and would have to agree.

[roastbeef]

what year is the current m3 supposed to halt production, and when does f30 production begin?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

what year is the current m3 supposed to halt production, and when does f30 production begin?

I would suggest you search the forum. There are - no exaggeration - at least a dozen threads that cover this.

[kyoo]

Originally Posted by klammer

I got it and would have to agree.

yeah - i think pending the msrp of the next m3 i may pose the issue again in a separate thread to see what everone thinks

[duk]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

what year is the current m3 supposed to halt production, and when does f30 production begin?

2012 last year for coupes i would think and f3x m3 will be produced mid 2014

[OC3]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Sorry but your skepticism here is not well placed.

The current M3 with competition package (not that this package has any real influence on 0-60) has already achieved a 3.9. Now agreed, that number is a bit of an outlier, but it still made it. The new one will absolutely be sub 4.0 and sub 4.0 won't be such an outlier more of simply a solid run.

Really you don't need to know much more than power and weight to predict performance. As well the tires, chassis and most importantly launch control will all be better in the next gen car.

If this is true, non-ZCP's indeed are lowly Civic's.