Anyone here "upgraded" from an E9x M3 to an F8x M3/4..

[mjposner]

Beemdog, I wasn't suggesting that the fuel economy and low carbon emissions were really buyer driven but more regulatory driven especially in Europe. Also I believe most are not week-end toys but DD.

sunsweet Th eline is not extinct, every M3 has been different, 4, 6, 8 and 6 with a turbo. You may not like it, but I an M3 has always been the sum of its parts, faster, better brakes and better handling over the next top of the line 3 or 4 series, which the new M4 is in all aspects. Don't like it, don't buy it, but to say its not a true M is the same whiny comments that E46 owners said in 2007 looking at the E9x. Don't be that guy.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mjposner

Equal in speed, breaking and handling no doubt, but at what cost to fuel economy and carbon emissions, items that BMW cares about greatly. Just pressing my M button (all to the max) I drop below 15 mpg. The new M is always in the 20s.
.

Well, in track use it manages to be significantly worse than the S65, which is already a thirsty engine. That is amazing!

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by mjposner

sunsweet Th eline is not extinct, every M3 has been different, 4, 6, 8 and 6 with a turbo. You may not like it, but I an M3 has always been the sum of its parts, faster, better brakes and better handling over the next top of the line 3 or 4 series, which the new M4 is in all aspects. Don't like it, don't buy it, but to say its not a true M is the same whiny comments that E46 owners said in 2007 looking at the E9x. Don't be that guy.

I agree that they have been different. I think everyone would also agree that over the first four generations of the 3 series there was absolute model evolution that translated into model improvement which was the foundation for the M3 models. And those base 3 series and M3 alike were universally recognized as segment standard bearers.

Now, just as before, the M3 (or M4) is a model based on the 3 series model, but unlike in the past, the 3 series isn't getting the world behind it to proclaim the gold standard of the segment as happened over a span four generations. That only makes M Division's job more difficult, IMO, and while I still have faith in the division, I also think it's up against a learning curve of sorts; one that is going to task it to be far more ingenious in compensating for what it is now getting in the form of a base 3 series to start with in designing the M models of the 3 series.

[FogCityM3]

Good point, the E46 and E90 base cars were really beyond reproach competition wise, so the base cars were really really good, especially for the time. C&D even went so far as to do a full blown analysis of the E90 vs F30 chassis/suspension setups, which helped explain (to them) why the E90 felt so much better to them (it was the reason why they set up the test to begin with). The M3/4, being based on a sedan will always be handicapped compared to dedicated sports cars, which can be lighter (don't have to carry loads of 4-5 passengers) and are designed with performance first and foremost over comfort and convenience. Also I think it doesn't help that the cars have gotten larger. The E46 was a perfect size, even for the sedan (though not necessarily for the rear occupants).

Originally Posted by Eau Rouge

I agree that they have been different. I think everyone would also agree that over the first four generations of the 3 series there was absolute model evolution that translated into model improvement which was the foundation for the M3 models. And those base 3 series and M3 alike were universally recognized as segment standard bearers.

Now, just as before, the M3 (or M4) is a model based on the 3 series model, but unlike in the past, the 3 series isn't getting the world behind it to proclaim the gold standard of the segment as happened over a span four generations. That only makes M Division's job more difficult, IMO, and while I still have faith in the division, I also think it's up against a learning curve of sorts; one that is going to task it to be far more ingenious in compensating for what it is now getting in the form of a base 3 series to start with in designing the M models of the 3 series.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Good point, the E46 and E90 base cars were really beyond reproach competition wise, so the base cars were really really good, especially for the time. C&D even went so far as to do a full blown analysis of the E90 vs F30 chassis/suspension setups, which helped explain (to them) why the E90 felt so much better to them (it was the reason why they set up the test to begin with). The M3/4, being based on a sedan will always be handicapped compared to dedicated sports cars, which can be lighter (don't have to carry loads of 4-5 passengers) and are designed with performance first and foremost over comfort and convenience. Also I think it doesn't help that the cars have gotten larger. The E46 was a perfect size, even for the sedan (though not necessarily for the rear occupants).

The E46 was indeed the perfect coupe, and I miss the shit out of mine. If only it sounded not like garbage. I feel the F80 is the perfect size for a sedan, front and rear passengers included. The E90 was uncomfortable for the rear passengers, and was uncomfortable for me as a driver with the B pillar jamming into my shoulder. I refuse the acknowledge the M4 as a real car that exists. It's just a bastard budget version of an F12, and just as pointless.

[FogCityM3]

Totally agree. The E90 is still a bit cramped in the rear, and the F80 does solve this problem. Also, I never really got the concepts of sedan-based coupes as you really don't get the full benefits with rear seating despite the size of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by modkrazy

The E46 was indeed the perfect coupe, and I miss the shit out of mine. If only it sounded not like garbage. I feel the F80 is the perfect size for a sedan, front and rear passengers included. The E90 was uncomfortable for the rear passengers, and was uncomfortable for me as a driver with the B pillar jamming into my shoulder. I refuse the acknowledge the M4 as a real car that exists. It's just a bastard budget version of an F12, and just as pointless.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I refuse the acknowledge the M4 as a real car that exists. It's just a bastard budget version of an F12, and just as pointless.

Why not tell us how you really feel about the M4?

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by mjposner

" I would be curious to see performance numbers for a full bolt e92 against a stock M4."

Not performance numbers but a drag race. Second race in this vid, the M4 shuts off the JB4 tune (stock) against a bolt-on E92 M3. First race with the JB4 on...no contest, the M4 walks all over it. HUGE trap speed differences in both races.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by OhSoCal

Not performance numbers but a drag race. Second race in this vid, the M4 shuts off the JB4 tune (stock) against a bolt-on E92 M3. First race with the JB4 on...no contest, the M4 walks all over it. HUGE trap speed differences in both races.

Nice runs. E92 got smoked in both runs. New car doesn't sound bad when you wind it all the way out.

[FashionablyFast]

Definitely an upgrade in this sense.... sheesh, almost broke into the 10's with a tune, exhaust and drag radials. Personally I could care less about drag racing so I'm ok with my E92 but there's no denying the F8x is fast and easy to tune to be even faster....even fast doing what it wasn't designed to do.

http://m.autoevolution.com/bmw-m4-ru...deo-88250.html

[Talk2meg00se]

Originally Posted by OhSoCal

Definitely an upgrade in this sense.... sheesh, almost broke into the 10's with a tune, exhaust and drag radials. Personally I could care less about drag racing so I'm ok with my E92 but there's no denying the F8x is fast and easy to tune to be even faster....even fast doing what it wasn't designed to do.

http://m.autoevolution.com/bmw-m4-ru...deo-88250.html

wow - that tuned M4 looks like it could hang with a GTR.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by OhSoCal

Definitely an upgrade in this sense.... sheesh, almost broke into the 10's with a tune, exhaust and drag radials. Personally I could care less about drag racing so I'm ok with my E92 but there's no denying the F8x is fast and easy to tune to be even faster....even fast doing what it wasn't designed to do.

http://m.autoevolution.com/bmw-m4-ru...deo-88250.html

I would day that the car's engine was indeed designed for drag races this time around, so like in Harris' words, "you aren't embarrassed by turbo hot hatches".

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Nice runs. E92 got smoked in both runs. New car doesn't sound bad when you wind it all the way out.

But the e92 sounds incredible.

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I would day that the car's engine was indeed designed for drag races this time around, so like in Harris' words, "you aren't embarrassed by turbo hot hatches".

Let's not forget the F8x is fast around a racetrack too, not just drag racing. It's chassis is designed more for the track and it bests the E9x's time in just about every racetrack around the world....as expected for a newer model.

[mjposner]

"I refuse the acknowledge the M4 as a real car that exists."

Philosophical? Or will you shield you eyes when you get smoked? I am sure the M divisions is just going to pack it in with that refusal.

As I have said all along, complaints on this board about the E9x:

1. Not enough Torque
2. Poor fuel economy (on the street, duh!)
3. Poor rear leg room
4. Gas guzzler tax
5. Too heavy

and the M3/4 is a fail?

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by mjposner

"I refuse the acknowledge the M4 as a real car that exists."

Philosophical? Or will you shield you eyes when you get smoked? I am sure the M divisions is just going to pack it in with that refusal.

As I have said all along, complaints on this board about the E9x:

1. Not enough Torque
2. Poor fuel economy (on the street, duh!)
3. Poor rear leg room
4. Gas guzzler tax
5. Too heavy

and the M3/4 is a fail?

I've never complained nor heard any current E9X M3 owners complain about any of the above, but I guess some people will complain about anything these days

[backhill]

Originally Posted by BrewRifle

I've never complained nor heard any current E9X M3 owners complain about any of the above, but I guess some people will complain about anything these days

My coffee was too hot this morning!!!

But really, the new M is a step in the direction of the entire market. I think turbos will be on just about everything in ten years. I think it's a beautiful car, granted it took me a while for it to grow on me. I look forward to taking one for a drive soon, but for now, my E90 is still an amazing machine that I have no intention of letting go.

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by BrewRifle

I've never complained nor heard any current E9X M3 owners complain about any of the above, but I guess some people will complain about anything these days

Of course you don't hear those complaints on an E9x forum. It's human nature to ignore the faults of what we love. I heard all these complaints about the E9x on the E46 forums when the E9x first came out. I had an E46 M3 at the time the E9x was introduced and I resisted it because I was so infatuated with my E46.....until I decided to ignore all the Internet opinions and drove an E92 for myself. ...and this is exactly why I'm more open minded to the F8x.

[SakhirM4]

Enjoy!!

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...96&postcount=1

[malrash]

Honest question: I visited the M3/M4 forums for the first time today, and was genuinely surprised to see so many low mileage cars for sale or lease transfers. Is this the norm, or are people getting buyer's remorse?

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by CIFUM3

The only thing I would call an upgrade is in the actual year of the car... Everything else a downgrade in my opinion

Silly.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by malrash

Honest question: I visited the M3/M4 forums for the first time today, and was genuinely surprised to see so many low mileage cars for sale or lease transfers. Is this the norm, or are people getting buyer's remorse?

There are many cars for sale in the F8X forum that are not F8X. I just counted 8 F8X for sale/lease transfer in the forum. I didn't see any that looked like buyer's remorse (although it might be). The reasons given were:

- Financial situation changed
- Wanted a different color
- Wanted different transmission
- Wanted 2 or 4 door instead

Didn't see any that said "hate the car". Maybe they did